The Palace Fan 3,408 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Mel81x said: I think a bit of reform is in order and it really should start with this. The VAR officials are never allowed to referee on the pitch and vice-versa. The fact that these are teams has never really ever sat well with me. They then run the risk of saying things like Rando eluded to. Have two separate groups doing the VAR + The Refereeing and that should solve about 60% of the issues. Now, it doesn't matter what the ref thinks or says, the VAR acts independently instead of with the ref. After the 'hes my mate' confession from Mike Riley at the start of the season this conversation really should have already started. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,425 Posted September 30, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted September 30, 2023 Just caught up on all the shenanigans. Very disappointed that once again VAR mars another game and makes a huge howler. Once again Hooper involved but sounds like it was more the bellends in the VAR room as opposed to anything Hooper could have done. But it's just so disappointing that this is the talking point and the discussions as opposed to the actual game and quality of teams on show. Scoring a goal that early would have changed the game massively. Agree about both of the red cards but Liverpool's Diaz goal stands and it gives then something to hold on to as opposed to chase especially when down to 10. As for Man Utd, what on earth is happening there? Is it all the off-field problems that are having an affect on Ten Hag and the players? Is it such a distraction, or is Ten Hag just not getting the best out of the team? Did I hear correct that Maguire was brought on at 1-0 down?! Absolutely delighted for Luton. Phenomenal for them to get their first ever PL win at a side that was just about hitting some form. They've got another winnable game on Tuesday vs Burnley too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,408 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 If this was me id probably be taking PGMOL to the small claims court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,215 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 what happened to fifa’s auto offside detector they had at the world cup that covered the clear and obvious stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 So if Liverpool lose the title race by a point will they consider legal action? I think Liverpool should request the fixture be replayed. Until a club makes a stand this rubbish will carry on. If the technology isn't working then it needs stopping until it works because this isn't fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,425 Posted September 30, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted September 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Danny said: what happened to fifa’s auto offside detector they had at the world cup that covered the clear and obvious stuff? PL decided not to implement it. Might expose their corruption Just now, Devil said: So if Liverpool lose the title race by a point will they consider legal action? I think Liverpool should request the fixture be replayed. Until a club makes a stand this rubbish will carry on. If the technology isn't working then it needs stopping until it works because this isn't fair. Not a chance that request would get approved. It's shit that teams get screwed over, but there'd be a seriously dangerous precedent set if every time VAR makes a howler, a game gets replayed. There's already enough fixture congestion as it is. And what if there's a howler in the replayed game? VAR just needs to focus on getting decisions right. It's not the technology that's not working. That seemingly works fine. It's the human errors and poor application of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Stan said: Not a chance that request would get approved. It's shit that teams get screwed over, but there'd be a seriously dangerous precedent set if every time VAR makes a howler, a game gets replayed. There's already enough fixture congestion as it is. And what if there's a howler in the replayed game? VAR just needs to focus on getting decisions right. It's not the technology that's not working. That seemingly works fine. It's the human errors and poor application of it. You could certainly see a situation where a club misses Champions league by a point. The financial loss is huge. These apologies wouldn't mean much then, recovery of costs would be the course of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,425 Posted September 30, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted September 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Devil said: You could certainly see a situation where a club misses Champions league by a point. The financial loss is huge. These apologies wouldn't mean much then, recovery of costs would be the course of action. The apologies mean fuck all as it is. They clearly don't change anything and they just become more hollow as each one is made. Liverpool won't be the only club that miss out either. Wolves could argue they could miss out on a higher place (and therefore more money) because of that Old Trafford farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,408 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 Thats about the worst reason for getting it wrong imaginable. How long should that have taken for someone to realise? About 2 seconds? They're linked up to the linesman. Even if play starts again, surely when you see it didn't start with a kick off you realise your mistake and stop play immediately. Even if that's not protocol, people will accept and understand that far more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,200 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Devil said: You could certainly see a situation where a club misses Champions league by a point. The financial loss is huge. These apologies wouldn't mean much then, recovery of costs would be the course of action. Sue PGMOL for the financial loss, make them run out of money so we can start afresh with none of these incompetent dickheads around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,015 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Storts said: lol. Sober up Mike Soz. Wasn't even pissed haha. Probably still a bit angry after the game. Over it now though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,215 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 I do feel for the refs. Not in that they should be allowed to make bad decisions, but that I’ve fucked up at work plenty, never had the public demand an inquiry into it though lol. I think the issue is less about the refs and more about the system that creates all of the margins for error available. Humans will make those errors time and time again, the system needs to be as minimal as possible in terms of the margin for error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick 2,283 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 There is NO excuse for that today. Not a single one. It’s like a postie not delivering a single letter on his round, a failure of his ONE JOB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,015 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 That Diaz decision is an absolute joke. And the explanation for it is even worse from that ESPN fella. Liverpool should take this further. It's not like it was a decision that was debatable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,200 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 2 hours ago, LFCMike said: That Diaz decision is an absolute joke. And the explanation for it is even worse from that ESPN fella. Liverpool should take this further. It's not like it was a decision that was debatable. When PGMOL said it was “significant human error” that honestly pissed me off more than if they’d just said nothing. Significant human error is something like Simon Hooper’s parents not getting an abortion. This was either: ridiculous levels of incompetence that should end in people losing their jobs or just straight up match fixing. Which should lead to some lifelong bans. Darren England should be sacked. No excuse for him to keep his job. He’s either too inept to be a referee, or bent. There’s no excuse to keep him around polluting English football any further. Get rid and send a message to the rest of these clowns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Mel81x+ 3,620 Posted October 1, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted October 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Stan said: Liverpool won't be the only club that miss out either. Wolves could argue they could miss out on a higher place (and therefore more money) because of that Old Trafford farce. While I agree with this and the dangerous precedence it sets for clubs to chase PGMOL about bad decisions it can't go on like this with empty apologies. If a club does lose out on financial income from a potential bad decision that has no repercussions that's as good as saying to the club that you're at the mercy of our stupidity and that's not right either. The probable right thing to do here is to have fiscal compensation for the failures, you can laugh now. If that did happen however, I can see PGMOL not apologizing or even being proper in their scrutiny so everyone is damned as long as we have refs who dont know to do their job. A third body needs to be introduced here for VAR and that's the only solution in my mind. When you let the governing body act like they got tools they dont want to use due to negligence you allow them to do things that have impacts on clubs. Lets look at it the other way, a club gets relegated due to a bad decision that could have gone their way and now they have less money due to their position in the pyramid and they also have no way of seeking restitution on that mistake. Seems like a shit position to be in due to no fault of your own while the decision maker is still making those bad decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,408 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 Sacking Darren England does absolutely nothing to help the others. When a 'How does that happen?' scenario happens in other professions they look to change something that prevents a similar outcome happening again. What they should do now, in my opinion, is come up with standard phraseology that the VAR officials use. So in this case of an offside, it shouldn't refer to the on field decision as it doesnt matter. They're in a stressful environment where they're trying to do things with an amount of time pressure that they know are going to be scrutinised worldwide, and people do strange things in times of stress. This can be minimised with standard communication procedures. The chaotic nature of the communication and background noise of players in refs ears is going to lead to more errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,425 Posted October 1, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted October 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Significant human error is something like Simon Hooper’s parents not getting an abortion That's a bit far mate considering it wasn't even him making this error. 13 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said: Sacking Darren England does absolutely nothing to help the others. When a 'How does that happen?' scenario happens in other professions they look to change something that prevents a similar outcome happening again. What they should do now, in my opinion, is come up with standard phraseology that the VAR officials use. So in this case of an offside, it shouldn't refer to the on field decision as it doesnt matter. They're in a stressful environment where they're trying to do things with an amount of time pressure that they know are going to be scrutinised worldwide, and people do strange things in times of stress. This can be minimised with standard communication procedures. The chaotic nature of the communication and background noise of players in refs ears is going to lead to more errors. Agree with this. I'm not even sure it's a phraseology thing. I think like @Mel81x said, there needs to be an independent body looking at this. Perhaps not even referees that do games every few days. Have VAR specialists that are separate to PGMOL or that aren't 'mates' with refs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,408 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Stan said: Agree with this. I'm not even sure it's a phraseology thing. I think like @Mel81x said, there needs to be an independent body looking at this. Perhaps not even referees that do games every few days. Have VAR specialists that are separate to PGMOL or that aren't 'mates' with refs... That would be my long term solution that will take time to implement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 301 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 bad decisions are part of the game, and it happens to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 301 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 A professional performance against Burnley, was a little concerned about the win against City creating a sense of overconfidence or complacency however we were very thorough. Elliot Anderson is maturing into a good player, was certainly his best performance yet and hop plenty more to come. Sean Longstaff also seems to bring out the best of Trippier and Bruno, possibly our most underrated player. The only downside is a few knocks and niggles, Harvey Barnes is out until January, Joelinton went off with a tight hamstring, Wilson also has a hamstring niggle and Botman has that knee niggle which is being managed. This last season would have strained our squad depth, this season we have sufficient depth of quality to be able to sustain it. Hopefully bar Barnes they are short term knocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick 2,283 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 27 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said: bad decisions are part of the game, and it happens to everyone. Try harder. Now they are saying that the VAR thought the on field decision was that the goal had been awarded, hence why he didn’t draw lines and just said “check complete”. The more information they put out, the angrier I am. You’re telling me that once he had realised that the ref hadn’t given the goal, he didn’t think that it was right to intervene and tell him it was a goal? Absolute fucking disgraceful decision making, and he should absolutely lose his job over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reluctant Striker 134 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 (edited) The 1st Liverpool red certainly was correct for me. I think there's a liberal amount of bias around those type tackles. If it's Liverpool or Chelsea or whatever player on the receiving end, with legs or ankles being buckled, it's dangerous play, by dirty tactics, of lesser players, trying to unfairly level the playing field. Surely not the look & feel Liverpool aim for? The Diaz offside is the 1 that just defies all logic & reason. It had been my understanding every goal is checked. That no early offside flags were part of the plan, to always check whatever the situation appears to be. A neutral, or balanced pundit style VAR team is likely possible. Slightly crazy how often that idea gets rubbished. To be fair, one of the biggest mess ups since VAR was a few seasons back when Sheffield United were not given a goal at Villa Park. With the goalkeeper & ball clearly the wrong side of the goaline. But the refs line-sensor watch had not beeped, or vibrated, or whatever. Sheffield United went down. A different result at Villa would have been a different outcome. Edited October 1, 2023 by Reluctant Striker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,425 Posted October 1, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted October 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Rick said: Try harder. Now they are saying that the VAR thought the on field decision was that the goal had been awarded, hence why he didn’t draw lines and just said “check complete”. The more information they put out, the angrier I am. You’re telling me that once he had realised that the ref hadn’t given the goal, he didn’t think that it was right to intervene and tell him it was a goal? Absolute fucking disgraceful decision making, and he should absolutely lose his job over it. It's pure madness. Pathetic excuse really. They're brainwashed now to do right by VAR, not do right by the good of the game. And that's the sad thing about it all. I can't fathom how, when the free kick for restart of the game, the any of the VAR guys have not said 'Simon wait what's going on? We thought a goal was given on field, we will check again, there was no offside'. That'd be far more acceptable (but still poor) than how it panned out yesterday. It'd just show that they are human that make mistakes, but recognise them instantly and correct the call. I doubt there'd be this much furore or anger if that happened instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,215 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 (edited) We currently have 6 players out injured (or suspended in Toney’s case) with medium to long term absences. All 6 are guaranteed first eleven. We are in a tricky spot at the moment and I’m not sure we have enough overall to get a draw let alone a win away at Forest today. Rico being out is a massive hit to the team, defensively he allows us to be very aggressive high up the pitch but he also offers an outlet to get the ball up the pitch in the first place. Schade was starting to really grow into the season and will be out for a while, Damsgaard was first choice end of last season, Dasilva is a creative outlet that has secured us points from difficult situations last season. Mee is arguably our best centre back. Fortunately we do have depth to cover a lot of the losses but we are light in midfield and on the wing. Going to have to rely on the B team players I think as subs. Assume our line up today is: Lewis Potter - Wissa - Mbeumo Jensen - Norgaard - Janelt Hickey - Pinnock - Collins - Roerslev/Ajer Flekken Edited October 1, 2023 by Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.