Unpopular Football Opinions

[Beelzebub]

Eww if these things ever materialise then i will be done with football

[Smiley Culture]

23 minutes ago, Stan said:

Isn't that the plan now anyway? Have the third competition for those clubs that don't usually get in to Europe?

My main concern is that once the CL is closed off to try and angle it for the elite clubs (if that hasn't happened already), what's the criteria to break in to that elite? Or even if they go off on a tournament themselves, how do other clubs try and break that glass ceiling?

I'm not sure it's that unpopular to be honest. The way football is/was going was pointing towards a select elite of clubs forming their own 'clique' and continuing to get money plied in to them through sponsorships/TV while the others are left to just do what they can.

No idea. 

Maybe I should have been clearer, the elite sides  pull up the drawbridge on their competition and it’s no longer a competition you can qualify for by league placings, it’ll be decided in boardrooms rather than patches of grass.

They pack up and have their own competition that leads to even further financial disparity and then your next crop of clubs, your Leicester’s currently, have the Europa League as best case scenario for European competition and then the third one to satisfy the next crop of clubs whom otherwise would be even further from continental football than they are now. 

[Guest]

On 08/06/2020 at 13:28, Inti Brian said:

I've got a few. Some I've stated before, others I haven't.

- Marek Hamsik was the best playmaker in the world under Sarri besides Messi

- Germany was better in the 2010 World Cup than 2014 as a whole.

- Cavani is a better player than Suarez in 2020. 

- Croatia gets credit for their 2018 World Cup for the feel good story of making the final for the first time and with that population. You can bet those same people criticized Portugal at the 2016 Euros though when it was nearly the same deal.

- Griezmann is not world class and never has been.

- Peru didn't play a bad 2018 World Cup, but they were put in a group with a team that is better (France) and a team about even (Denmark). Particularly that game against Denmark was always a coin toss, and that time we were picked to lose.

- Costa Rica's aging generation doesn't mean they don't have young talent coming through and I reckon their new batch of players could be almost as good. They will continue qualifying for World Cups.

- Canada's national team has quality over quantity compared to the USMNT.

Portugal got out of a group without winning a game then had a 120 minute winner against Croatia and a penalty shoot out win. They had one win in full time in the tournament. Croatia won every group game. It's similar but not the same.

[Mpache]

Bayern Munich has a far better track record at debuting their talented youngsters than clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid and Manchester City.

- Alphonso Davies

- Paolo Guerrero

-  David Alaba

- Thomas Muller

- Bastian Schweinsteiger

A few examples. They don't get enough credit for it I feel.

 

[Stan]

Just now, Inti Brian said:

Bayern Munich has a far better track record at debuting their talented youngsters than clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid and Manchester City.

- Alphonso Davies

- Paolo Guerrero

-  David Alaba

- Thomas Muller

- Bastian Schweinsteiger

A few examples. They don't get enough credit for it I feel.

 

What is this based on, just out of interest? What's the comparison to use?

[Mpache]

4 minutes ago, Stan said:

What is this based on, just out of interest? What's the comparison to use?

It's because of a comment I recall @Cicero made when Bayern signed Davies, that he will just develop. 

It's true you can't play everyone, but I think Bayern Munich have a good track record at giving chances to their most talented youngsters.

Barcelona are awful nowadays and only buy players rather than giving faith to La Masia.

Real Madrid are hit and miss. Some of them like Federico Valverde make it, other talented ones like Sergio Diaz and Odegaard do not.

Manchester City have had an awful record with it but are slightly getting better. It's debatable though.

And also I think there needs to be a barometer. Bayern is in the category of world class teams that should always be competing for everything.

[Cicero]

4 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

It's because of a comment I recall @Cicero made when Bayern signed Davies, that he will just develop. 

It's true you can't play everyone, but I think Bayern Munich have a good track record at giving chances to their most talented youngsters.

Barcelona are awful nowadays and only buy players rather than giving faith to La Masia.

Real Madrid are hit and miss. Some of them like Federico Valverde make it, other talented ones like Sergio Diaz and Odegaard do not.

Manchester City have had an awful record with it but are slightly getting better. It's debatable though.

And also I think there needs to be a barometer. Bayern is in the category of world class teams that should always be competing for everything.

Last I checked Davies wasn't a Bayern product. 

 

[Mpache]

Just now, Cicero said:

Last I checked Davies wasn't a Bayern product. 

 

Then to put it better - players who had to start at their B team.

So Barcelona B, Castilla, Bayern Munich II.

Players that shine at home and then move to a big club to never get a chance. The likes of Joao Rodriguez, Marlos Moreno, etc.

This obviously also includes their actual "products"

[Cicero]

7 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

Then to put it better - players who had to start at their B team.

So Barcelona B, Castilla, Bayern Munich II.

Players that shine at home and then move to a big club to never get a chance. The likes of Joao Rodriguez, Marlos Moreno, etc.

This obviously also includes their actual "products"

So for Bayern just Davies then? If we are talking about recent? Ill then give you Ansu Fati for Barca?

[Stan]

12 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

It's because of a comment I recall @Cicero made when Bayern signed Davies, that he will just develop. 

It's true you can't play everyone, but I think Bayern Munich have a good track record at giving chances to their most talented youngsters.

Barcelona are awful nowadays and only buy players rather than giving faith to La Masia.

Real Madrid are hit and miss. Some of them like Federico Valverde make it, other talented ones like Sergio Diaz and Odegaard do not.

Manchester City have had an awful record with it but are slightly getting better. It's debatable though.

And also I think there needs to be a barometer. Bayern is in the category of world class teams that should always be competing for everything.

I think they do give faith to La Masia.

They've recently given 'chances' to Ansu Fati, who's hit the ground running ridiculously for his age. Riqui Puig has played, not just recently but been in the first team this season if I remember correctly. 

Then you have Sergi Roberto too, Ronald Araujo has played in the last 2 games. 

While I agree it's not what it used to be, they do 'give faith' to La Masia, just not to the same extent currently. The vast success in the past I don't think should be used as a barometer to how it is now. It's not like their squad is totally void of youth products (there's still Busquets, Pique, Alba and Messi hanging around  (I appreciate Pique and Alba left and returned)).

 

Regarding Bayern, aside from Alaba and more recently, Zirkzee, who else has come up through their ranks and plays regularly? I'm not counting Davies because he was signed from Vancouver and not a player they necessarily 'developed'. 

[Mpache]

Just now, Cicero said:

So for Bayern just Davies then? If we are talking about recent? Ill then give you Ansu Fati for Barca?

Haha fair point. How about we remove Guerrero and Schweinsteiger and talk about this past decade then?

Because if we just talk this century, then yeah you can't look beyond Barcelona who have produced the best team of all time via their academy.

David Alaba, Alphonso Davies and Thomas Muller are the three main ones. As for others, I feel they don't buy enough youngsters as a whole so you could argue they have a high percentage of success with the ones they do. There's Sarpreet Singh who could work or not work out for them. Jury's out. I don't know about their youth products, but it's hard to say anyways because they could just be using the most of their current generation. Just as Barcelona did until 2015-ish.

[Mpache]

4 minutes ago, Stan said:

I think they do give faith to La Masia.

They've recently given 'chances' to Ansu Fati, who's hit the ground running ridiculously for his age. Riqui Puig has played, not just recently but been in the first team this season if I remember correctly. 

Then you have Sergi Roberto too, Ronald Araujo has played in the last 2 games. 

While I agree it's not what it used to be, they do 'give faith' to La Masia, just not to the same extent currently. The vast success in the past I don't think should be used as a barometer to how it is now. It's not like their squad is totally void of youth products (there's still Busquets, Pique, Alba and Messi hanging around  (I appreciate Pique and Alba left and returned)).

 

 Regarding Bayern, aside from Alaba and more recently, Zirkzee, who else has come up through their ranks and plays regularly? I'm not counting Davies because he was signed from Vancouver and not a player they necessarily 'developed'. 

Well my first flaw was including Guerrero and Schweinsteiger. Because if we're going that far back, then yes Barcelona is way better.

Muller wasn't this decade as I JUST remembered (sorry Cicero ) but he was a bit later than Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in fairness. I'm not here to set rules or anything though as I'm not that kind of person.

Regarding la Masia, jury is out on all of those except Sergi Roberto, but things are definitely looking better this year. This past decade the 2 best in the category of the biggest clubs have been Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. Though Bayern have a higher percentage of success, Real Madrid have had more successful players. Even if not all of them came directly into the first team from Castilla (such as Carvajal)

[ScoRoss]

Aren't Stuttgart more renowned for their youth development in Germany than Bayern? Timo Werner and Joshua Kimmich some of the latest players to come through?

[Cicero]

9 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

Haha fair point. How about we remove Guerrero and Schweinsteiger and talk about this past decade then?

Because if we just talk this century, then yeah you can't look beyond Barcelona who have produced the best team of all time via their academy.

David Alaba, Alphonso Davies and Thomas Muller are the three main ones. As for others, I feel they don't buy enough youngsters as a whole so you could argue they have a high percentage of success with the ones they do. There's Sarpreet Singh who could work or not work out for them. Jury's out. I don't know about their youth products, but it's hard to say anyways because they could just be using the most of their current generation. Just as Barcelona did until 2015-ish.

And I'll give you Ansu Fati, Marc Bartra and Sergi Roberto, 

[Mpache]

Just now, Cicero said:

And I'll give you Ansu Fati, Marc Bartra and Sergi Roberto, 

Jury is out on Ansu Fati mate. He's been great but he's still 17 and has played one season in his life.

Marc Bartra is a good shout but in my opinion he's not as good as Davies or Alaba, and never has had their potential.

Sergi Roberto I like a bit.

[Cicero]

Just now, Inti Brian said:

Jury is out on Ansu Fati mate. He's been great but he's still 17 and has played one season in his life.

Marc Bartra is a good shout but in my opinion he's not as good as Davies or Alaba, and never has had their potential.

Sergi Roberto I like a bit.

So we've gone from a club's track record of debuting talent to Bayern had more talented youth. 

Gotcha. 

[Mpache]

Just now, Cicero said:

So we've gone from a club's track record of debuting talent to Bayern had more talented youth. 

Gotcha. 

Ah ok, yeah I did say that. Fair enough.

[Rucksackfranzose]

49 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

Haha fair point. How about we remove Guerrero and Schweinsteiger and talk about this past decade then?

Because if we just talk this century, then yeah you can't look beyond Barcelona who have produced the best team of all time via their academy.

David Alaba, Alphonso Davies and Thomas Muller are the three main ones. As for others, I feel they don't buy enough youngsters as a whole so you could argue they have a high percentage of success with the ones they do. There's Sarpreet Singh who could work or not work out for them. Jury's out. I don't know about their youth products, but it's hard to say anyways because they could just be using the most of their current generation. Just as Barcelona did until 2015-ish.

If you only talk the last decade, you'll have to remove Müller also, who deputed in 2008.

 

[Rucksackfranzose]

44 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Aren't Stuttgart more renowned for their youth development in Germany than Bayern? Timo Werner and Joshua Kimmich some of the latest players to come through?

Yes, they are, as are Schalke and Hertha BSC.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Rucksackfranzose

[West of West Ham]

The Premier League is a closed shop of elites where every other club is there to prop up the league and provide a sense of competition, when there isn’t one. 2016 was a one off and the only way to complete is to win the lottery by having a Sheik, dodgy Oil Barron or American entrepreneur with $billions takeover. 
 

[Smiley Culture]

36 minutes ago, West of West Ham said:

The Premier League is a closed shop of elites where every other club is there to prop up the league and provide a sense of competition, when there isn’t one. 2016 was a one off and the only way to complete is to win the lottery by having a Sheik, dodgy Oil Barron or American entrepreneur with $billions takeover. 
 

You know this is the unpopular opinion thread, don’t you? 

[Mpache]

Tottenham Hotspur winning the Champions League would have been a better story than Ajax.

Ajax winning it would have been very nice, but they've won the competition before and we've seen teams win leagues despite being inferior financially (Leicester). Spurs on the other hand, if they had won the Champions League, they would have won the only thing their rivals don't have...

[Mpache]

2 minutes ago, CityTheBest said:

Pele and Maradona were better players than Messi and Ronaldo.

While this post is largely a piss take, I don't think this one is entirely untrue.

Maradona at least was the greatest player I've been able to see (thank old matches for that, otherwise I'd be saying Messi).

Pele was apparently overrated and some said Garrincha was better, but I was able to see one or two matches as well as various highlights and holy fuck he was good. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

On 16/06/2020 at 05:06, Azeem said:

Eww if these things ever materialise then i will be done with football

How rampant is capitalism in Pakistan? Because in the western powerhouses, bet on the elevation of the elite and the oppression of the meek every single time my friend. 

[Dan+]

If we're effectively barred from entering the Champions League then I'm going to find it tough even bothering to get interested anymore. I can definitely feel my interest in football waning a bit. Can't remember the last significant change in it that I liked.