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Eco

What is the difference? PSG & Man City

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Between what Manchester City has been doing, compared to that of PSG? 

Before money, Man City had 2 EPL titles, 4 FA Cups, and a European Cup
Before money, PSG had 2 Titles, 5 Cups, 1 UEFA Winner's Cup, and 1 Intertoto Cup

A few thought as I think PSG are much more hated than Manchester City, especially on here. 

1.) PSG are French, and the English and the French don't mesh well. 
2.) The transfer fees of Neymar, Mbappe are so crazy that this has drawn a massive dislike
3.) Manchester City are 138 years old, whereas PSG is only 47
4.) I'm wrong in my thinking, and both are disliked equally. 

Generally curious about this, so let me know your thoughts.

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Man City are the club of the actual city of Manchester. 90 years older than PSG, with a history of real fans, and real love for the club. There is a reason why the club has famous fans like Johnny Marr, Ian Curtis, and the Gallagher brothers, before the success.

Paris isn't a football city. Never has been, never will be. Their Marseille rivalry is fake; a media creation to drum up interest in the Ligue 1.There is a reason nobody knows who Red Star Paris are, because a fashion designer founded a club in 1970. PSG from day one were closer to a franchise expansion akin to US sports than a club. That is why Euros revolt towards them. 

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PSG are liked less because they are seen as being in a non-competitive league. Similar to if Anzi Makachakalakalaka had suddenly poached Neymar from Barca. It just seems inherently dumb.

City overall seem to have been somehow quieter in the way they’ve gone about it to me, but i’m not sure how.

Also they follow in the footsteps of Chelsea, who were similarly Uber rich, but also somehow nastier. So the main comparison they are drawn to is its Chelsea’s which is favourable for them.

Also their lack of success in the UCL has almost softened peoples view of them (3 times group stage exit - we got to get our narc-i-ness out of the system early).

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7 minutes ago, Spike said:

Man City are the club of the actual city of Manchester. 90 years older than PSG, with a history of real fans, and real love for the club. There is a reason why the club has famous fans like Johnny Marr, Ian Curtis, and the Gallagher brothers, before the success.

Paris isn't a football city. Never has been, never will be. Their Marseille rivalry is fake; a media creation to drum up interest in the Ligue 1.There is a reason nobody knows who Red Star Paris are, because a fashion designer founded a club in 1970. PSG from day one were closer to a franchise expansion akin to US sports than a club. That is why Euros revolt towards them. 

I'm curious on this point. Is it because they don't a history of having a club, or do you think the city as a whole just doesn't care as much? 

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

PSG are liked less because they are seen as being in a non-competitive league. Similar to if Anzi Makachakalakalaka had suddenly poached Neymar from Barca. It just seems inherently dumb.

City overall seem to have been somehow quieter in the way they’ve gone about it to me, but i’m not sure how.

Also they follow in the footsteps of Chelsea, who were similarly Uber rich, but also somehow nastier. So the main comparison they are drawn to is its Chelsea’s which is favourable for them.

Also their lack of success in the UCL has almost softened peoples view of them (3 times group stage exit - we got to get our narc-i-ness out of the system early).

I don't think many people think that at all. Before the hegemony of PSG and after Lyon's, Ligue 1 was one of the more exciting leagues in Europe with a different champion six years in a row.

Anzi poached Eto'o from Inter whioe he was still in his prime. Nobody cared about Anzi; it is nothing at all the same. PSG already had a built in dislike amongst footballing circles. The reason Chelsea and ManCity survived is because they had that 'everyone's second club' nonsense going for them which always disappears with success.

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City had great players like Jimmy Grimble before the oil money 

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On 18/06/2018 at 13:02, Eco said:

Between what Manchester City has been doing, compared to that of PSG? 

Before money, Man City had 2 EPL titles, 4 FA Cups, and a European Cup
Before money, PSG had 2 Titles, 5 Cups, 1 UEFA Winner's Cup, and 1 Intertoto Cup

A few thought as I think PSG are much more hated than Manchester City, especially on here. 

1.) PSG are French, and the English and the French don't mesh well. 
2.) The transfer fees of Neymar, Mbappe are so crazy that this has drawn a massive dislike
3.) Manchester City are 138 years old, whereas PSG is only 47
4.) I'm wrong in my thinking, and both are disliked equally. 

Generally curious about this, so let me know your thoughts.

Since when did Man City win the European Cup? O.o

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For City's faults they've done a lot for the city of Manchester - Rebuilt an area of the city that was a slum, created jobs for the people of Manchester, created probably the worlds best academy infrastructure (yet to see if it will actually develop players), kept ticket prices reasonable and they've invested in a proper Women's team that play in the 5000 capacity training stadium.

I don't know as much about PSG but it seems more of an instant success job to me.

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Just now, SirBalon said:

Arsenal have even won that one. 

And one that Real Madrid never won, but came runner's up twice. 

Arsenal > Real Madrid

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Just now, Eco said:

And one that Real Madrid never won, but came runner's up twice. 

Arsenal > Real Madrid

You know it baby! You HAVE to win them all!!! :banana:

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@Eco Cup Winners Cup isn't that much of a trophy to be honest

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2 minutes ago, Stan said:

@Eco Cup Winners Cup isn't that much of a trophy to be honest

Ha - I figured as much. But I figured it was still a decent comparison since both teams had similar trophy cases before Oil took over. 

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31 minutes ago, Marc said:

For City's faults they've done a lot for the city of Manchester - Rebuilt an area of the city that was a slum, created jobs for the people of Manchester, created probably the worlds best academy infrastructure (yet to see if it will actually develop players), kept ticket prices reasonable and they've invested in a proper Women's team that play in the 5000 capacity training stadium.

I don't know as much about PSG but it seems more of an instant success job to me.

Have they actually regenerated an area of the city that was a slum or just priced it out?

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2 minutes ago, Danny said:

Have they actually regenerated an area of the city that was a slum or just priced it out?

Slum is an exaggeration but it was just a dialect, dirty, unused area. I don't know what it used to be 

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On 18/06/2018 at 09:23, Eco said:

I'm curious on this point. Is it because they don't a history of having a club, or do you think the city as a whole just doesn't care as much? 

I think this is due more due to the fact the club was founded only in 1970. Differently from Barcelona, Marseille, Napoli, PSG is not an integral part of the city´s identity. But to be fair, considering the political, historical, artistic legacy of Paris, a football club would always have a tough time to blend in.

Having said that, during the 90s, Canal + invested a lot of money in PSG and they built some very strong squads, including big names such as Weah, Lama, Djorkaeff, Raí, Leonardo...  That helped them create a faithful following and the atmosphere at Parc des Princes was amazing. In french domestic football, since then PSG have always been a relevant team, even if they struggled in between the sale of the club by Canal + and the qatari takeover. I guess my point is that PSG has some history, it may be short, but they have a a history and a fanbase as well, which is very hard to please, by the way. 

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On 19/06/2018 at 21:00, Stan said:

@Eco Cup Winners Cup isn't that much of a trophy to be honest

It was years ago

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Perhaps it's needs it's own thread but is what the two clubs have done that bad? All clubs have investment. Arsenal almost went out of business once we we bought by a millionaire. 

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11 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Perhaps it's needs it's own thread but is what the two clubs have done that bad? All clubs have investment. Arsenal almost went out of business once we we bought by a millionaire. 

I still think this boils down to a few things - 

1.) From my experiences, I think it's obvious that the English don't like the French, especially in sports. 

2.) Because PSG are a 'recent' club, they are seen as no history and plastic fans

3.) The pay an incredible fee time and time again, taking some of the best talent from around Europe. 

 

In my opinion, no, they aren't different. All major teams require someone to bank roll them. Chelsea, Manchester City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich...everyone needs money. Now how people go back this is absolutely different, and the likes of Chelsea, Manchester City, and PSG all come by it in very similar ways...and that is oil. 

I still think the majority of people hate PSG at it's core for the same reason they hate the NT, and that's to due with them being French and the long standing rivalry with them. Certainly we aren't as old as England or France, but we have a similar rivalry with Mexico in sports terms. 

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17 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Perhaps it's needs it's own thread but is what the two clubs have done that bad? All clubs have investment. Arsenal almost went out of business once we we bought by a millionaire. 

This debate will probably always exist. We are a long way out of the days where a big club is defined by how many fans pay money at the turnstiles and that dictating their spending potential and arguably then their potential to succeed.

I think the difference with these two particular clubs is the fact that the investment is so blatantly not from anyone who has anything to do with Manchester City or PSG, or even the two countries that they're from. At least when you get investment from someone who has an attachment to the club (e.g. Kenwright at Everton not that he led to us becoming big spenders or anything) then there's at least an element of it being one of your own putting back into the club they love, which is certainly not at all the case for the investors at PSG and Manchester City.

However you're basically right, this is just the way football is going and there's no point people bashing Manchester City and PSG because the sad truth is that most people one day will support a football club that gets bought out, treated as an investment and potentially get hollowed out as an actual traditional football club and become a business instead which isn't really linked to the local community at all.

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1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

This debate will probably always exist. We are a long way out of the days where a big club is defined by how many fans pay money at the turnstiles and that dictating their spending potential and arguably then their potential to succeed.

I think the difference with these two particular clubs is the fact that the investment is so blatantly not from anyone who has anything to do with Manchester City or PSG, or even the two countries that they're from. At least when you get investment from someone who has an attachment to the club (e.g. Kenwright at Everton not that he led to us becoming big spenders or anything) then there's at least an element of it being one of your own putting back into the club they love, which is certainly not at all the case for the investors at PSG and Manchester City.

However you're basically right, this is just the way football is going and there's no point people bashing Manchester City and PSG because the sad truth is that most people one day will support a football club that gets bought out, treated as an investment and potentially get hollowed out as an actual traditional football club and become a business instead which isn't really linked to the local community at all.

So many good points in this. I know a lot of Inter fans who were devastated with ownership moved overseas, and now Milan find themselves praying for such. 

I don't see anything wrong with Chelsea, Man City, or PSG, and their ownership, it's just the way football is going. Hell, if I have billions, I'd do the exact fucking same and buy a club in Europe and try to make them the CL Champions

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10 hours ago, Eco said:

I still think this boils down to a few things - 

1.) From my experiences, I think it's obvious that the English don't like the French, especially in sports. 

2.) Because PSG are a 'recent' club, they are seen as no history and plastic fans

3.) The pay an incredible fee time and time again, taking some of the best talent from around Europe. 

 

In my opinion, no, they aren't different. All major teams require someone to bank roll them. Chelsea, Manchester City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich...everyone needs money. Now how people go back this is absolutely different, and the likes of Chelsea, Manchester City, and PSG all come by it in very similar ways...and that is oil. 

I still think the majority of people hate PSG at it's core for the same reason they hate the NT, and that's to due with them being French and the long standing rivalry with them. Certainly we aren't as old as England or France, but we have a similar rivalry with Mexico in sports terms. 

TBH mate I'd say most English people like French teams, that Lyon side for example for people of my generation

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4 hours ago, Danny said:

TBH mate I'd say most English people like French teams, that Lyon side for example for people of my generation

The Benezema one I'm guessing you are referring to? 

I think it's fair to say that you have a rival with France as a country, and so it might be easier for the English to have massive amounts of hatred towards a French club for something when there is one in North England doing the same thing.  Just a massive generalization on my part, though. 

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18 hours ago, Eco said:

The Benezema one I'm guessing you are referring to? 

I think it's fair to say that you have a rival with France as a country, and so it might be easier for the English to have massive amounts of hatred towards a French club for something when there is one in North England doing the same thing.  Just a massive generalization on my part, though. 

You can't really compare PSG and Man City in terms of history, City have a bigger history and before they were taken over were generally a lot of peoples "second team" because of their relationship to United, though City get the same feedback nowadays. Chelsea get exactly the same treatment as PSG do but still had history to them whereas PSG did not really.

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PSG is much more dislikable. It has nothing to do with whether people like or don’t like French football but French football is the victim of Paris Saint-Germain for sure.  All that talk that the players they (PSG) attract help the Ligue1 product is absolute rubbish becaue PSG is not Ligue1 and Ligue1 is not PSG. 

Also adding to the fact that with Paris Saint-Germain it’s more blatant observing how the job is to legitimise Gulf society amongst other eerie stuff and it’s a lot easier to see that PSG is funded by a state than with their sister Man City.

Man City is a beneficiary victim of association but City have history and a foundation of legitimacy. 

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It's possibly softer in England because the top spots are cemented by clubs who got lucky with the timing of their genueine success. As in they just happened to be at the top when money disbalances dramatically got out of hand. It could have been anyone but the devil chose them.

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10 hours ago, SirBalon said:

PSG is much more dislikable. It has nothing to do with whether people like or don’t like French football but French football is the victim of Paris Saint-Germain for sure.  All that talk that the players they (PSG) attract help the Ligue1 product is absolute rubbish becaue PSG is not Ligue1 and Ligue1 is not PSG. 

Also adding to the fact that with Paris Saint-Germain it’s more blatant observing how the job is to legitimise Gulf society amongst other eerie stuff and it’s a lot easier to see that PSG is funded by a state than with their sister Man City.

Man City is a beneficiary victim of association but City have history and a foundation of legitimacy. 

But PSG fans would never agree with that. Their history may be short, but they have a history. Their mid 90s teams were very strong, even beating Barcelona in the Champions League and making it to the semi-final. They´ve also won the UEFA Cup Winner´s Cup. 

Not recognizing that they had strong teams and idols in the 90s is exactly why Ibrahimovic is not considered an idol by PSG fans. They´ve always found some of his quotes disrespectful towards the club. 

 

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1 hour ago, El Profesor said:

But PSG fans would never agree with that. Their history may be short, but they have a history. Their mid 90s teams were very strong, even beating Barcelona in the Champions League and making it to the semi-final. They´ve also won the UEFA Cup Winner´s Cup. 

Not recognizing that they had strong teams and idols in the 90s is exactly why Ibrahimovic is not considered an idol by PSG fans. They´ve always found some of his quotes disrespectful towards the club. 

 

I agree... But French football was different then. The amount of French clubs that were strong then gave credence to PSG’s existence and participation.

Paris has never been a footballing city which is probably why it took so long for them to have a football club. Don’t you find it curious that they’re so hated amongst other French fans in other parts of the country?

The normal argument to that last bit would be to say that it’s based on jealousy and envy but their hatred goes all the way back to the days you just mentioned.

Luis Fernández is one of their legends and he has a weekly scoop on José Ramón de la Morena’s ‘El Larguero’ radio show and he mentions this quite often and some very untoward things that used to happen in the day when they travelled away. The Gulf Arab ownership has only worked to accentuate the whole thing. They are seen as a rancid club mate and you should know this as you are very interested in French football. 

Infact listenting to Luis Fernández is always an enlightening experience.

@Batard I’m sure can add plenty more in depth stuff than me on the general sentiments surrounding PSG in France.

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