Everton Discussion

[Lucas]

20 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

Potter might be swayed by a huge pay rise and access to a bigger transfer kitty. He wouldn't be the first. I still think he'd be a mad man to come though.

Sorry but Dyche is a horrific shout. Good manager but the polar opposite of what we need.

This idea that we need to get a 'safe pair of hands' type manager needs to get in the bin. Look at Arsenal, Brighton, Brentford, Palace, Leeds, Villa. The list of teams in this league who have taken a 'gamble' on a younger, hungrier, unproven manager when they could have looked at a Hodgson/Dyche/Benitez "he'll get you 17th" option, and ended up much better off for it is growing and growing.

The real gamble nowadays isn't to employ a somewhat unknown or unproven quantity, it's to employ the managers that have made a career out of damage limitation and don't actually have the level of strategic thinking required to bring a club forward over multiple years. Dyche may not fall entirely into this category, but he's still a manager who plans to get to 40 points first and everything else comes second. He's not the type to have a five year plan to move you from mid/lower-mid table to the fringes of the top six.

Solid, safe, reliable, know what you're getting. All just pseudonyms for mediocre. We need to aim higher. A manager on the way up, not a manager who's reached their ceiling of "safe pair of hands".

I totally get your point, fair in the examples that you give and there's nothing to suggest that wouldn't work at Everton going down the same route. 

My reasons for Dyche though is that I think your club is absolutely toxic right now and he is the kind of personality that would bring you together. It's amazing the difference we see in players when they are happy. DCL is a big example of that when Ferguson first stepped in a while back and got him scoring.

I also feel Dyche has a bit of a stigma attached to him from managing at Burnley. I agree, his job there is safety first but he plays within their means. He knows they are underdogs every year and accepts that. Would it be a tad unfair to assume he'll be like this at Everton? Burnley can play football when they want to. With a better calibre of player, I'm actually curious as to what he would do at a higher rated club with better resources but at the moment, i completely get its hypothetical. When he speaks, he certainly makes a lot of sense though.

Very hard to judge him when it's primarily what he's done at Burnley and seems I'm alone on this thought but I wouldn't write him off.

Can you imagine him and Klopp in the derby? That would be box office to me 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Lucas

[Devil]

If your looking for proven Premier league experience Potter or maybe Hassenhutle.

Southampton have sold so many of his players but he always keeps the competitive.

[Lucas]

16 minutes ago, Danny said:

Sean Dyche would be terrible imo, I don’t think he’d be terrible but there is no way the fanbase go for that.

Do Everton not have the resources anymore?

I really don't know, I thought they were hampered financially which prevented them going for bigger players in the summer, like your Dumfries and people like that.

Instead it was freebie after freebie.

[Danny]

1 minute ago, Lucas said:

I really don't know, I thought they were hampered financially which prevented them going for bigger players in the summer, like your Dumfries and people like that.

Instead it was freebie after freebie.

That makes sense then, only reason I connected the two was cos of how much Everton had spent 

[Tar-Mairon]

Everton hire a manager who was toxic with their fans from the start, allow him full control, sack their medical head at his behest, sack their DOF and sell one of their better performers and first choice left back as well as letting him buy two other full backs, sack him three days later and now the rumour is that they are trying to get back the man Moshiri originally sacked when he took over.

That's pretty shambolic.

 

[RandoEFC+]

It gets increasingly more difficult to think of ways in which the board can make themselves and the club look stupider than they already have but I think by bringing back Martinez and then having to sack him when he fails again, they've cracked it.

It could go well with him having had a bit more experience under his belt. Maybe. I guess. Probably not though.

[LFCMike]

Everton will be fine because a new manager bounce should see them take a few points in their next four. They are in trouble if they don't do that though looking at their remaining games after that.

[Lucas]

Martinez is an odd one.

Surely at a time like this you'd want someone that is going to unite the fanbase, not split it.

There were sections that wanted him out quite venomously before, and it's hard to imagine they would be any more accommodating.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Lucas

[LFCMike]

11 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Martinez is an odd one.

Surely at a time like this you'd want someone that is going to unite the fanbase, not split it.

There were sections that wanted him out quite venomously before, and it's hard to imagine they would be any more accommodating.

I don't think it was sections, I think it was pretty much unanimous.

[Lucas]

5 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I don't think it was sections, I think it was pretty much unanimous.

I wanted to say that but I couldn't quite remember if that was entirely accurate.

On another note, I wonder what would tempt him back there anyway as opposed to wanting one last crack at the World Cup with this 'golden generation' Belgium team. 

[RandoEFC+]

I would be open to Martinez simply based on the fact that most of the other likely candidates arguably have just as many drawbacks as he does. He wouldn't be my first choice and I'd remain wary. I remember after his spell with us my opinion of him was absolutely on the floor and now I'm thinking I've just forgotten how bad he was, or our ongoing shiteness since he left has just made his spell look better by comparison.

Not a ringing endorsement and I'd say 90% of Evertonians seem even less keen than me.

[LFCMike]

http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/in/whats-on/thank-you-everyone-who-supported-from/268/

[Chickasaw]

Spurs were chasing some fairly high profile names to replace Mourinho. Their names slip me now but what about one of them? I wouldn't go for Nuno, he isn't for you. Rangnick would fit.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Chickasaw

[The Artful Dodger]

20 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/in/whats-on/thank-you-everyone-who-supported-from/268/

A genuinely decent man. There aren't that many in the world. 

[RandoEFC+]

So it's Kenwright pushing for Martinez. Also tried to do so in the summer before Moshiri said no and employed Benitez. Board haven't met with Moshiri yet so no discussions between them and no indication of whether he'll be offered it or not. Martinez would love to come back. Rooney would also definitely take the job if offered...

[Devil]

Ole Gunner 33/1 

Might put a sneaky fiver on that, guided United to second spot and a cup final last season.

I'd imagine it would go down as well as the Rafa announcement 

[Chickasaw]

1 hour ago, RondónEFC said:

So it's Kenwright pushing for Martinez. Also tried to do so in the summer before Moshiri said no and employed Benitez. Board haven't met with Moshiri yet so no discussions between them and no indication of whether he'll be offered it or not. Martinez would love to come back. Rooney would also definitely take the job if offered...

Rooney would be no good to you at all.

[RandoEFC+]

4 minutes ago, Chickasaw said:

Rooney would be no good to you at all.

It's tempting to jump straight to that conclusion based on his lack of experience, occasional misjudged behaviour as a player and perceived lack of intelligence. I said exactly the same as you a couple of weeks ago when Mike Parry mentioned it, but if you assess the evidence of his very short managerial career, the job he's done at Derby has been very good. Admittedly not a huge bank of evidence, but the evidence that exists is overwhelmingly positive. Not saying he's the man, go and get him, but I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand, especially looking at the likely list of alternatives.

Santo would be tedious as fuck, the likes of Fonseca, Kovac and Garcia have managed big clubs but mostly been sacked and are still living off brief spells of success almost half a decade ago and have never managed in England, Ferguson is no long term answer and going back to Martinez is insane even by our standards.

Could do worse, that's all I'm saying.

[Rafa Beneathus]

Still can’t believe Rafa thought it would be a good idea to go to Everton. Was never going to work out for him there. I hope his next job is at a clue where the fans appreciate him and get behind him.

That isn’t some snide dig at Everton or it’s fans either BTW, I would say it is similar to Steve Bruce coming to NUFC in the sense that it was never going to work out but I would feel pretty fucking shan for comparing Benitez to that cretin.

Martinez would be a horrible appointment too, by the way. 

[Dan+]

I'll get pelters for this but Sean Dyche. Burnley are on the wane now and I don't put that on him - I think they're about to crash and burn personally. I think he'd come, whilst Potter wouldn't.

I'm not even saying this for "he'll keep you up every season" because that's way less than you should be aiming for and that 'ambition' is what would eventually relegate a club, but he's managed that at a club with a consistently weaker squad and a substantially poorer budget. Can totally understand turning the nose up at him but I think his ceiling is a bit higher than simply survival.

It's intrigue as much as anything, I'd be very interested to see him at a bigger club.

In another way the more I think about it I think you're just fucked and you're going to repetitively do this until Moshiri goes. You've tried all types of managers, all types of players, spent a lot in order to do so, but worst of all in my opinion you brought in the football 'brain', didn't utilise it what so ever, let a manager who blatantly had no long term future there get rid of him and then sacked that manager a month later anyway. What hope has literally any manager got in that situation? Even more so given you've spent a lot of the money now and you're having to go for the cheaper players anyway. Dyche, Potter, Martinez, Allardyce, it's irrelevant until the clown at the top learns from his errors and there are no signs of it. You need to get him out first and foremost because I fear this kind of season will become your norm otherwise.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Dan

[Dan+]

5 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

It's tempting to jump straight to that conclusion based on his lack of experience, occasional misjudged behaviour as a player and perceived lack of intelligence. I said exactly the same as you a couple of weeks ago when Mike Parry mentioned it, but if you assess the evidence of his very short managerial career, the job he's done at Derby has been very good. Admittedly not a huge bank of evidence, but the evidence that exists is overwhelmingly positive. Not saying he's the man, go and get him, but I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand, especially looking at the likely list of alternatives.

Santo would be tedious as fuck, the likes of Fonseca, Kovac and Garcia have managed big clubs but mostly been sacked and are still living off brief spells of success almost half a decade ago and have never managed in England, Ferguson is no long term answer and going back to Martinez is insane even by our standards.

Could do worse, that's all I'm saying.

He's done a fantastic job at Derby. Know a few fans of theirs and Forest and we were all geared up for a year of absolute hilarity as their team of youngsters, teammates old enough to be their dads and general misfits got pinged all over the league by sides like Huddersfield and Preston. They've lost by more than a goal once, would be in the top half without their point deductions, have a plus goal difference, have only lost 7 of their 26. The fact they have a genuine chance of survival is astonishing.

Unsure if he's the answer for you, don't think it's loads to judge him off, the problem is the ultimate backs to the wall job isn't a justification for taking a job at a Premier League club that has European aspirations (surely?) even if you do look miles from it. Then again that totally contradicts what I said about Dyche, although I think Dyche has earned a better job more than Rooney.

[LFCMike]

 

[Tar-Mairon]

Well, the options I've seen all have drawbacks but that's always going to be the case when you've been mismanaged for years and are struggling:

Roberto Martinez - would probably only get it until the end of the season as I doubt he'll want to leave before the World Cup. Would be an embarrassing climbdown for Moshiri, if he didn't feel he was good enough then, why now? However, West Ham made an embarrassing climbdown on Moyes and their eating of humble pie worked out very well. I can't see it being long-term or working out but they might do it.

Wayne Rooney - well, we're in the days where ex players who have done a lot less than Rooney has can get jobs at their old clubs so I can well see it. The job at Derby, under the circumstances, has been excellent and he won't go straight in with expectations of guaranteed CL qualification and trophies instantly unlike Solskjaer, Arteta and Lampard at the clubs where they are legends - although I use "legend" loosely in Arteta's case. Maybe he does deserve a chance in (comparatively) calmer waters but they might decide he's too inexperienced.

Duncan Ferguson - I doubt it, would be the biggest risk of all.

Frank Lampard - He'd take it if offered, I have no doubt of that. He'll get no bigger right now. An enigma of a manager - got Derby to the play-off final but didn't get them over the line, qualified for the CL in his first season with Chelsea under difficult circumstances but failed to win the FA Cup, collapsed in his final half a season but arguably set Tuchel up for success with the players he bought in and bought through - Tuchel clearly a better manager but still, Lampard deserves credit. Would he be the right fit? Million dollar question.

Nuno Esperito Santo - maybe if he were coming straight from Wolves but really, the job he did with us has badly knocked his chances. Plays a similar type of football to Benitez and granted, would come to Everton without Benitez' baggage but looked utterly lost, exhausted and like he had no ideas whatsoever with us which would not be a good look. I think he needs a time out.

Graham Potter - would be a fantastic appointment but I don't think he'll go. He'll hold on for a team in or immediately pushing for top 4 or possibly England.

Sean Dyche - I don't see it simply as he's no longer flavour of the month, same with Hasenhuttl.

Paulo Fonseca - well, he wants to come to England and I could see it if they want to take a punt on someone who's not managed in England. Our managerial hiring incompetence in the summer shouldn't put anyone else off.

 

 

 

[Waylander]

Interesting to see if they had waited a week Benitez would have met Gerard in the dug out.

Big Dunc fired Everton up for Chelsea last time there was a change. I can remember that as were having a strange season where we seemed to be saving all the clubs in trouble and they turned us over in a feisty match.

They have winnable games against Villa, Brentford and Newcastle.

Big Dunc's motivation might work for the first two though by Newcastle you would expect someone to have been appointed.

Martinez might well be the new man, the clever move might be to look at and up and coming manager at a Scottish club outside the old firm. Don't see the latter happening. 

 

 

 

[LFCMike]

24 minutes ago, Waylander said:

Interesting to see if they had waited a week Benitez would have met Gerard in the dug out.

I was hoping Benitez could hold on until the weekend. The fume as two managers they despise enter the dugout would have been glorious.