Everton Discussion

[Waylander]

2 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I was hoping Benitez could hold on until the weekend. The fume as two managers they despise enter the dugout would have been glorious.

Yes it was funny when Lampard beat Jose at Spurs.

 

[Chickasaw]

14 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

It's tempting to jump straight to that conclusion based on his lack of experience, occasional misjudged behaviour as a player and perceived lack of intelligence. I said exactly the same as you a couple of weeks ago when Mike Parry mentioned it, but if you assess the evidence of his very short managerial career, the job he's done at Derby has been very good. Admittedly not a huge bank of evidence, but the evidence that exists is overwhelmingly positive. Not saying he's the man, go and get him, but I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand, especially looking at the likely list of alternatives.

Santo would be tedious as fuck, the likes of Fonseca, Kovac and Garcia have managed big clubs but mostly been sacked and are still living off brief spells of success almost half a decade ago and have never managed in England, Ferguson is no long term answer and going back to Martinez is insane even by our standards.

Could do worse, that's all I'm saying.

Derby had points deducted, had they not they'd have accumulated 35 points, W8, D11 putting them in 11th or 12th in The Championship. Good enough for Everton?

[LFCMike]

 

[The Artful Dodger]

The most enjoyable Everton side to watch that I've seen seen was that 13/14 side. Just never built on it. 

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, Chickasaw said:

Derby had points deducted, had they not they'd have accumulated 35 points, W8, D11 putting them in 11th or 12th in The Championship. Good enough for Everton?

First of all that's pretty impressive considering they started the season without even a starting eleven of senior players.

Secondly, asking "good enough for Everton" isn't how it works. By that logic, Champions League winner Benitez should have been amazing and he was shite. Martinez won an FA Cup, Koeman had mixed it in the European spots with Southampton, Ancelotti is now at Real Madrid walking La Liga having won their first trophy of the season this weekend already. They were all plenty "good enough for Everton" but none of them brought us success.

The best manager we've had in our lifetime is David Moyes (depressing I know but clearly true). When we brought him in, he came from Preston in the Championship and Everton was the biggest managerial job he'd had by a long way.

Experience and current standing should be taken into account but to dismiss someone as "not good enough" because they've never managed at the level is far too simplistic. You need to get the right guy based on a range of criteria and while it would be far from an ideal signing, I'd rather go for it than Martinez or Nuno Santo.

[RandoEFC+]

[Chickasaw]

9 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

First of all that's pretty impressive considering they started the season without even a starting eleven of senior players.

Secondly, asking "good enough for Everton" isn't how it works. By that logic, Champions League winner Benitez should have been amazing and he was shite. Martinez won an FA Cup, Koeman had mixed it in the European spots with Southampton, Ancelotti is now at Real Madrid walking La Liga having won their first trophy of the season this weekend already. They were all plenty "good enough for Everton" but none of them brought us success.

The best manager we've had in our lifetime is David Moyes (depressing I know but clearly true). When we brought him in, he came from Preston in the Championship and Everton was the biggest managerial job he'd had by a long way.

Experience and current standing should be taken into account but to dismiss someone as "not good enough" because they've never managed at the level is far too simplistic. You need to get the right guy based on a range of criteria and while it would be far from an ideal signing, I'd rather go for it than Martinez or Nuno Santo.

For me Howard Kendall was your best manager, maybe before your time. It's sad that this is happening to Everton particularly as I remember Brian Labone, Bob Latchford, Derek Temple, Joe Royle, Roy Vernon, Johnny Morrissey and others. It was a team which offered a lot to the league. I'm a Spurs follower and the Everton fixture has always been my favourite. I hope things get sorted for you.....ok.

[Tar-Mairon]

Usually, I have an immediate aversion to romantic appointments because they very rarely work. Lampard didn't. Solskjaer didn't. Arteta is very, very debatable but I would say that he hasn't. 

However, Everton have gone with the tried and true and it hasn't worked. To me, it always felt as if Koeman and Ancelotti thought they were too big for the club (that's a criticism of them, not a negative statement on Everton's size as a club) and that they thought they were doing them a favour by just being there. I know Silva has had to work his way back up from the Championship since it went wrong for him at Everton but it looked as though he had thoughts that Everton were a stepping stone. 

Rooney would see it differently, he has shown admirable loyalty in difficult circumstances with Derby (he could have said "fuck this!" in the summer and walked away) and has shown sufficient qualities to suggest that he deserves a chance there. If you consider Solskjaer's experience was in the Norwegian league and relegating Cardiff with a horrible brief period in the Championship and Arteta had never managed in his own right before he got the Arsenal job, then yes, Rooney would be a shout as the position Derby are in is nothing short of remarkable with what he has at his disposal.

 

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Tar-Mairon said:

To me, it always felt as if Koeman and Ancelotti thought they were too big for the club (that's a criticism of them, not a negative statement on Everton's size as a club) and that they thought they were doing them a favour by just being there. I know Silva has had to work his way back up from the Championship since it went wrong for him at Everton but it looked as though he had thoughts that Everton were a stepping stone. 

Ironically, Koeman came across as more like this than Ancelotti despite Ancelotti being a genuine world class manager, admittedly with his best years probably behind him, and Koeman being a poor manager with a very mixed track record. Didn't really get the stepping stone vibes from Silva when he was here. While he was quite understated in his manner, he was never accused of being less than fully committed to the club. I liked Marco Silva a lot to be honest, felt as though the combination of him and Brands in the Director of Football role had a nice balance to it. He ended up in the same downward spiral as every other Everton manager though through a mixture of bad judgement and bad luck. Groundhog Day.

[The Artful Dodger]

It's Ancelotti's comments since leaving which have made him seem arrogant. Very surprising for a man with a reputation for being a class act.

[RandoEFC+]

Being widely reported now that Lampard and Rooney are to be interviewed. I've always liked Lampard but I'm not sure on his managerial record. Hard to judge at this point overall but his last days at Chelsea, he struck me as someone who was either too stubborn or lacked the ideas to improve upon what was going wrong. It's probably a lazy analysis but some would put some of his Derby success down to his connections and who he was able to bring in on loan. I don't personally know or remember enough to comment on that. Still, he's a young manager and they always have room to improve on their weaknesses if they're hungry enough and I suspect he is. There's enough there to get behind if he comes in even if I'm not that sold on him at the moment.

I've made my feelings clear about Rooney. Starting to look like an exciting prospect in management and he'd obviously want the job and be fully committed. Minimal worries there about it being a stepping stone for him or it being a 'career' move. Now obviously isn't the ideal time, that would be at least the end of the season or probably even further down the line. Appointing him now would be a risk, but I can't see an appointment that wouldn't be risky. And does Lampard pose a significantly less risky appointment than Rooney? I don't know that it does.

[Waylander]

Lampard had a pre-season with the players not sure mid season that would work so well.

Haven't followed Rooney's managerial path. 

[RandoEFC+]

Goes without saying that a young, inexperienced but hungry manager is fine, and is indeed the preference to be honest, but what we need goes far beyond the playing side of things. We've got half of a football club to rebuild and that's being modest. Lampard, Rooney, whoever might haul us back towards mid-table in the second half of the season and that's the immediate priority, but without an experienced Director of Football or Sporting Director to oversee things and mitigate the risk of appointing a manager that fails, we're going nowhere, and appointing someone who then isn't allowed to do their job like Brands wasn't is no better.

[The Artful Dodger]

Really not sure about Lampard. Think this mythical good season he had in 19/20 is just that, a myth. He finished par for the course imo.

[Cicero]

I think the attacking fluid football we saw 19/20 was leftover residue from Sarri. 

Lampard still has a lot to learn, particularly setting up a defensive structure. Our team had more holes than swiss cheese. The Bayern demolition highlights it. 

[Waylander]

16 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I think the attacking fluid football we saw 19/20 was leftover residue from Sarri. 

Lampard still has a lot to learn, particularly setting up a defensive structure. Our team had more holes than swiss cheese. The Bayern demolition highlights it. 

 Fair point about the hangover from Sarri. Thought Lampard wanted to play with a back four though could not get the signings and the personnel were not suited to it.

He seemed to lose the plot in the 2nd season as soon as how he would sort one issue and another flared up. 

[Stan]

Duncan Ferguson and Leighton Baines in charge for now then. 

[Bluewolf]

Just found out they sacked Benitez... right out the loop on that one.. 

I knew he was on dodgy ground but completely missed that for some reason.. Only found out when they said Ferguson was going to replace him until further notice 

[LFCMike]

Sky reporting Mourinho is under consideration*

*Well aware this could be a Skybet marketing ploy

[RandoEFC+]

Fuck Mourinho.

[Devil]

2 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

Fuck Mourinho.

Jesus, fair play you don't want him but how far has Mourinho stock fallen that any clubs fans are now saying fuck that.

Incredible fall from grace.

[The Artful Dodger]

16 hours ago, Devil said:

Jesus, fair play you don't want him but how far has Mourinho stock fallen that any clubs fans are now saying fuck that.

Incredible fall from grace.

I think he and Benitez are similar in that respect. Both superb tacticians at their peak, but slowly being marginalised by a football that requires a more all encompassing philosophy. Their ethos will get its time again though. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by The Artful Dodger

[Lucas]

30 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I think he and Benitez are similar in that respect. Both superb tacticians at their peak, but slowly being marginalised by a football that requires a more all encompassing philosophy. Their ethos will get its time again though. 

They would be more suited as international managers for me now, especially Mourinho.

[Dave]

To be fair to Mourinho his tactical approach fell in 2015. For Rafa it was 2009. Hence why Rafa kept following his jobs and failing spectacularly.

[RandoEFC+]

 

Cannavaro hilarious.