Are there a lack of quality footballers in world football?

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, Blue said:

I forgot about him, but is Suarez really that much worse? 

No. Just Henry was that much better 

[Guest]

Just now, Cicero said:

No. Just Henry was that much better 

Well, I don't remember enough of Henry so take this with a grain of salt. Suarez was a superstar everywhere he went, Henry only at Arsenal IIRC

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

Well, I don't remember enough of Henry so take this with a grain of salt. Suarez was a superstar everywhere he went, Henry only at Arsenal IIRC

I hate that argument. 

[Guest]

Just now, Cicero said:

I hate that argument. 

Take that with a grain of salt. I really only looked at stats of his other clubs and remembered he didn't exactly succeed at Barca. No idea how he was at Monaco or Juve, so couldn't say.

[Eco]

5 minutes ago, Blue said:

Take that with a grain of salt. I really only looked at stats of his other clubs and remembered he didn't exactly succeed at Barca. No idea how he was at Monaco or Juve, so couldn't say.

I get it, a grain of salt, but seriously...how can you rate the Brazilian Ronaldo but NOT Henry and use the argument that you didn't watch Henry...yet he's younger than Ronaldo...?  

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, Blue said:

Take that with a grain of salt. I really only looked at stats of his other clubs and remembered he didn't exactly succeed at Barca. No idea how he was at Monaco or Juve, so couldn't say.

He moved to Arsenal at 22 and left to Barca at 30...

He spent his prime years at Arsenal, and the argument you are sneakily implying, is that he couldn't do it at more than one club. Which is a horrific argument in every sense. 

Why should Henry be less valued because he remained loyal to a club vs Suarez who spent his prime years at two clubs of different leagues? 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

I get it, a grain of salt, but seriously...how can you rate the Brazilian Ronaldo but NOT Henry and use the argument that you didn't watch Henry...yet he's younger than Ronaldo...?  

I've seen more clips of Ronaldo then Henry.

In the same way people ask me why I think Maradona is better than Messi, because I've actually seen full matches of him, just without any context.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Cicero said:

He moved to Arsenal at 22 and left to Barca at 30...

He spent his prime years at Arsenal, and the argument you are sneakily implying, is that he couldn't do it at more than one club. Which is a horrific argument in every sense. 

Why should Henry be less valued because he remained loyal to a club vs Suarez who spent his prime years at two clubs of different leagues? 

Fair enough. Again, I don't know much in relation to that although I still think it's outrageous to say there aren't quality footballers at the moment.

[Carnivore Chris]

On 20/03/2019 at 15:02, Blue said:

Take that with a grain of salt. I really only looked at stats of his other clubs and remembered he didn't exactly succeed at Barca. No idea how he was at Monaco or Juve, so couldn't say.

Considering he joined the club when he was about 30, he didn't do bad at all and was in fact class in the 2009 treble season as part of a front 3 with a young Messi and Eto'o.

[Mel81x+]

On 20/03/2019 at 20:16, Blue said:

Son Heung-Min is arguably the best asian player in history.

I think he's an excellent player for what he offers but that second part of best asian player in history? Where does that come from because I'd imagine countries like Iran, Iraq, Japan, Kuwait, UAE, etc have produced players who could be historically better. 

[Dan+]

Who though? I definitely think there's got to be a case. I can't remember any Asian as good as him.

You'd argue possibly Ali Daei who holds the record for most international goals but what did he do at club level?

[Mel81x+]

28 minutes ago, Dan said:

Who though? I definitely think there's got to be a case. I can't remember any Asian as good as him.

You'd argue possibly Ali Daei who holds the record for most international goals but what did he do at club level?

We don't have to go that far back lets take a Japanese player like Nagatomo. Has a Coppa Italia, AFC Cup, Runner up in the next one, a Super Lig with Galatasaray as well. Its not necessarily a great highlight reel but he's definitely better than Son when it comes to Asian success.

Post that you can also drop in Shinji Kagawa who has two Bundesliga titles, a Premier League with United and an AFC cup as well. 

I suppose the idea is that its all really relative but those two players mentioned were part of a Japanese squad that was considered the best of all time and they've done quite well at their clubs too. 

I purposely left out the one Asian who has had more success than these two just because I think when it comes to Asian football in general winning the AFC is more prestigious than club honours. NVM I'll add him to the list Park Ji-sung and hes probably a more coveted South Korean player than Son is.

[Dr. Gonzo]

29 minutes ago, Dan said:

Who though? I definitely think there's got to be a case. I can't remember any Asian as good as him.

You'd argue possibly Ali Daei who holds the record for most international goals but what did he do at club level?

He won the Bundesliga. And whatever the fuck DFB-Pokal is (I think it's the German equivalent of the FA Cup, but I can't be arsed to click the link on wiki).

Ali Daei is a fucking Iran legend. I still think prime Ali Karimi was a better player though, but he got fat and lazy pretty quickly 

[Guest]

The only Asian player who can make an argument is Cha Bum-Kun or whatever his name is. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Mel81x said:

We don't have to go that far back lets take a Japanese player like Nagatomo. Has a Coppa Italia, AFC Cup, Runner up in the next one, a Super Lig with Galatasaray as well. Its not necessarily a great highlight reel but he's definitely better than Son when it comes to Asian success.

Post that you can also drop in Shinji Kagawa who has two Bundesliga titles, a Premier League with United and an AFC cup as well. 

I suppose the idea is that its all really relative but those two players mentioned were part of a Japanese squad that was considered the best of all time and they've done quite well at their clubs too. 

I purposely left out the one Asian who has had more success than these two just because I think when it comes to Asian football in general winning the AFC is more prestigious than club honours. NVM I'll add him to the list Park Ji-sung and hes probably a more coveted South Korean player than Son is.

Honours don't automatically make a player great. Kagawa may have won more, but Son is and always has been a better player than him.

[Spike]

On 20/03/2019 at 10:09, Eco said:

I get it, a grain of salt, but seriously...how can you rate the Brazilian Ronaldo but NOT Henry and use the argument that you didn't watch Henry...yet he's younger than Ronaldo...?  

Well, you know... no me ol' mate Brian but someone could have easily watched more Serie A and La Liga than Premier League during the late 90s and early 00s.

[MUFC]

On 20/03/2019 at 15:10, Cicero said:

He moved to Arsenal at 22 and left to Barca at 30...

He spent his prime years at Arsenal, and the argument you are sneakily implying, is that he couldn't do it at more than one club. Which is a horrific argument in every sense. 

Why should Henry be less valued because he remained loyal to a club vs Suarez who spent his prime years at two clubs of different leagues? 

Henry got Arsenal to a CL final, he ripped Real a new one with that goal that season. I reckon Arsenal would have won the final 11 vs 11, they even had chances when down to 10 men.

[MUFC]

8 hours ago, Blue said:

Honours don't automatically make a player great. Kagawa may have won more, but Son is and always has been a better player than him.

Remember the great Bayern side that won the treble? Kagawa use to rip them to shreds, he also scored 3 against them in the German Cup final. 

[Inverted]

Kagawa was an elite playmaker who scored at the rate of a top-class striker, when the Bundesliga was at its best, and who delivered huge performances in crunch games.

Son is a very effective forward but he'll need to do a lot more to convince me he's better than Kagawa. 

[MUFC]

7 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Kagawa was an elite playmaker who scored at the rate of a top-class striker, when the Bundesliga was at its best, and who delivered huge performances in crunch games.

Son is a very effective forward but he'll need to do a lot more to convince me he's better than Kagawa. 

Seconded. 

[Happy Blue]

 Suarez was a flat track bully in his prime, hardly ever turned up against the big boys

[Mel81x+]

10 hours ago, Blue said:

Honours don't automatically make a player great. Kagawa may have won more, but Son is and always has been a better player than him.

Lets put aside the fact that we're even talking about two players here and go back to the original comment about historically best Asian player. What has Son done for South Korea? I don't really care about his club presence because lets face it the word historically best Asian player was used. Kagawa was part of one of the best Japanese sides ever and that's not even a point up for debate considering what they achieved. Son on the other hand hasn't done anything to warrant his inclusion in that arena. This is not to say that he's not a good player, I'd have him at the club I support in a heartbeat but until he does more I don't think that tag of "best Asian player ever" can be given to him. 

Then there's the fact that Shinji was part of a Dortmund team that excelled as well. He excelled at the start of the first year 2010 and then went on to win the league twice I believe? My gauge of someone who can deliver a status of best ever <insert continent here> is that they dont have to score goals to be great which is why I left Park out of the original discussion because he spent so much time on the bench you can't say he did much but how much they've done for their country as well. 

I like Takashi Inui a lot more than Kagawa myself because he has a way of playing the inside to the wing that I think takes a lot of skill. Is he a good player? Yes. Is he the best Asian player historically? No.

[MUFC]

15 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

Lets put aside the fact that we're even talking about two players here and go back to the original comment about historically best Asian player. What has Son done for South Korea? I don't really care about his club presence because lets face it the word historically best Asian player was used. Kagawa was part of one of the best Japanese sides ever and that's not even a point up for debate considering what they achieved. Son on the other hand hasn't done anything to warrant his inclusion in that arena. This is not to say that he's not a good player, I'd have him at the club I support in a heartbeat but until he does more I don't think that tag of "best Asian player ever" can be given to him. 

Then there's the fact that Shinji was part of a Dortmund team that excelled as well. He excelled at the start of the first year 2010 and then went on to win the league twice I believe? My gauge of someone who can deliver a status of best ever <insert continent here> is that they dont have to score goals to be great which is why I left Park out of the original discussion because he spent so much time on the bench you can't say he did much but how much they've done for their country as well. 

I like Takashi Inui a lot more than Kagawa myself because he has a way of playing the inside to the wing that I think takes a lot of skill. Is he a good player? Yes. Is he the best Asian player historically? No.

Park use to play in the big games.

[Mel81x+]

2 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Park use to play in the big games.

I think in the initial years he had an engine on him but towards the latter part not so much or am I wrong there? I remember him having great industry and that's not just for united but for South Korea too.