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The U.S. and Mass Shootings

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We had 2 within 24 hours, with one being in El Paso, and another being in Dayton, Ohio. 

Saw this image, and while I'm not certain it's true, but IF IT IS, than holy fuck America. 

67947911_2813106435369655_57721440653572

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2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Are they connected? 

:rofl:

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3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Are they connected? 

Sure. 

White Guy

military grade weapons

Both considered 'loners'. 

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1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Awful country, awful culture. Leave them to it. 

Thanks for your valuable input there. I bet you fucking adore Boris Johnson with that viewpoint. 

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Which country should be bombed for these shootings :ph34r:

Although i get America's gun culture, we also have it in our Western part of the country. It's part of their culture and they are very sensitive about it and they don't like the state dictate them on these issues.

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Just now, Eco said:

Thanks for your valuable input there. I bet you fucking adore Boris Johnson with that viewpoint. 

It's true. America is the country of self over anyone else, you are guaranteed the 'pursuit of happiness'. So if some sad fuck isn't getting laid or is a bit upset he has to take it out on everyone else, be it gays, women or ethnic minorities. The country is founded on slavery and racism, and its never even attempted to deal with that legacy. It is a toxic mix which is only going to get worse. The gun laws won't change and neither will the culture. 

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7 minutes ago, Eco said:

Sure. 

White Guy

military grade weapons

Both considered 'loners'. 

No I honestly thought I heard both had manifestos that tied to each other 

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9 minutes ago, Stick With Azeem said:

Which country should be bombed for these shootings :ph34r:

Although i get America's gun culture, we also have it in our Western part of the country. It's part of their culture and they are very sensitive about it and they don't like the state dictate them on these issues.

Yep - we have a lot of sensitiivity regarding ANYTHING related to gun control. It's a shame. 

7 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

It's true. America is the country of self over anyone else, you are guaranteed the 'pursuit of happiness'. So if some sad fuck isn't getting laid or is a bit upset he has to take it out on everyone else, be it gays, women or ethnic minorities. The country is founded on slavery and racism, and its never even attempted to deal with that legacy. It is a toxic mix which is only going to get worse. The gun laws won't change and neither will the culture. 

image.thumb.png.3a948f77a6733f34b1c615afc2b74e72.png

Yep - That's about right. 

3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

No I honestly thought I heard both had manifestos that tied to each other 

I haven't heard that. But really, this is such a common occurance here, I wouldn't be surprised. 

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America is a weird country, it screws any country and its people for its benefit, has an insanely rich political class that probably doesn't like anyone else then whites, religious maniacs in power who probably hate anyone who is not a Protestant. 

Yet everyone minds their own business according to my sis part of living in the US is the single greatest thing about the values of the US compared to anywhere else, where in some parts of the World you might get stopped for what you are wearing or look like, or in Europe they relish their "cultures" and give outsiders issues at time. In US a Muslim women in hijab could be shopping in the same store as an Orthodox Jewish person who is shoppping next to a Pajama wearing American teenager and no one gives a fuck about it. 

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Another weird thing is how unaware an average American is about what US does in the outside world. Yes we all are influenced by our surroundings sometimes so much that even facts can't change our mind but it's on another level in US, they don't know at all what the US foreign policy has done to other people and feel surprised why people hate US.

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3 minutes ago, Stick With Azeem said:

Another weird thing is how unaware an average American is about what US does in the outside world. Yes we all are influenced by our surroundings sometimes so much that even facts can't change our mind but it's on another level in US, they don't know at all what the US foreign policy has done to other people and feel surprised why people hate US.

That's not that weird, they're the dominant super power. Imperialism isn't considered okay anymore, so we have imperialism with extra steps and we just don't call it imperialism anymore. A big power throwing it's weight around the world has basically been true throughout the history of humanity.

But yeah, I do think it's weird that people are surprised that people hate the US considering the history America has with fucking over Latin America and the Middle East routinely.

As for the US's gun culture - to me it's so fucking strange. The Second Amendment was written with the American independence in mind - where many of the US soldiers who fought were part of militias. Yet nowadays, we don't see any "well regulated militias" which are a part of that very brief clause of the constitution... but are conveniently ignored. And they're ignored because of the mental gymnastics of the Supreme Court deciding that those words were not an important part of the Second Amendment. But realistically, it doesn't make sense for that law to exist anymore. Ordinary people aren't defending their homes with muskets anymore. The US has a National Guard to protect it's home front and weapons have advanced pretty significantly since muskets.

I wish gun enthusiasts in America were more honest - you don't buy a gun because it's good protection for yourself or your family. You buy a gun because you think guns are cool or you like hunting (or a mix of both). If you're hunting, you don't need an assault weapon. If you think guns are cool, you also don't need an assault weapon. I would have more respect if people just said "I like guns, I want to keep the second amendment because I like guns." But even if that's the case, surely these people must reconcile that ordinary people, even ordinary gun owners, don't need military grade weaponry.

The fact that even getting things like comprehensive background checks for potential gun owners, though, just absolutely blows my mind. It's beyond all common sense that they don't simply just make it harder to get a gun.

I do think we'll see more and more of these mass shootings. The FBI has warned of "copycats" in the wake of the El Paso shooting... and the fact that I went onto 8chan and saw some of the shit that's posted there - where they're egging on people to go on more shootings, to up the kill counts, and talking of an imminent race war they're wanting to start - which is all fucking horrifying, should be a warning that this can happen again at any minute in the US. These people have learned from ISIS imo - they've seen how one group could use the internet to radicalise angry young men and they've done it.

When you've got a country with more guns than people (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/there-are-more-guns-than-people-in-the-united-states-according-to-a-new-study-of-global-firearm-ownership/), insanely ineffective regulations on gun ownership - that recent shooting in Gilroy, CA the man drove in guns that were legal in Nevada but illegal in California... and that was enough for him to circumvent gun laws; see also, Illinois has strict gun laws but is surrounded by states that don't have anywhere near the same strictness and low and behold the South Side of Chicago is full of gangs that legally purchased guns in other states, that also has a rising problem with white nationalists feeling embolded, and a President that engages in stochastic terrorism on an almost daily basis... and you've got a country that's going to have a serious problem with mass shootings and white nationalist terrorism.

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's not that weird, they're the dominant super power. Imperialism isn't considered okay anymore, so we have imperialism with extra steps and we just don't call it imperialism anymore. A big power throwing it's weight around the world has basically been true throughout the history of humanity.

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/there-are-more-guns-than-people-in-the-united-states-according-to-a-new-study-of-global-firearm-ownership/), 

That's the weird thing, average American doesn't even know why they are fighting in Syria, Afghanistan etc 

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1 minute ago, Stick With Azeem said:

That's the weird thing, average American doesn't even know why they are fighting in Syria, Afghanistan etc 

That's probably a product of those extra steps for economic-imperialism v. "actual" imperialism. It's easier to pretend you're not imperialistic if you've got a media that doesn't keep the public really informed as to what the fuck their military is doing around the rest of the world.

Even before the news cycle was dominated by Trump, the U.S.'s military actions around the world were hardly covered by the American media - other than in quick passing soundbites "Drone strike in Yemen kills 6, now onto the stock market." "Suicide bomber in Kabul, kills 15, now let's take a look at the Republican primary candidates." Shit like that. And bigger military news, even from media outlets you wouldn't expect, really gets treated with a real glorification of war. When Trump ordered more strikes in Yemen and there was footage of missiles being shot from a US navy vessel... so much of the media just came in their pants at the sight of those missiles being shot off.

The media is extra complicit for the state of America nowadays, imo. And it's pretty appalling that in the days of a 24 hour news cycle they can just remain unfocused on so much of what the US military is doing, or U.S. foreign policy generally. They're the reason so many Americans are just uniformed as to what the fuck America is doing around the world.

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Constitutional stuff aside and I know I'm just repeating what many are thinking but I just can't believe how normalised guns are in the US. I can probably count on two hands the number of times I've seen a gun in real life and they just make me feel uneasy, even if it's highly trained person carrying it and even if it's safely tucked away somewhere.

With regard to how normalised they are, I know many Americans will have different experiences and different viewpoints given the size of the country and how it can differ between states but I have American friends and come across them a lot and to hear some of their experiences with guns, shocks me every time. I'm not talking about how people get shot or anything extreme, just to hear how they just form part of their society. The culture is the polar opposite in Europe and that contrast also strikes me.

Yes, I know it's a complex debate and story as to why the US finds itself in this state but nevertheless the fact you can walk into somewhere like Walmart, fill out some paperwork and come away with a gun (even of the smallest capability or power) is something I will never get over.

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I think the real problem is growing white nationalism in US, even if you take out the guns these people will find other ways of killing the invaders :coffee:

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It really bothers me that all of these republicans are coming out and blaming video games for gun violence. If video games meant an increase in mass killings, South Korea would be the most violent and dangerous place in the world. It isn't.

So many countries have kids playing video games and people with mental illnesses, but they don't have the same ease of access to get guns.

3 minutes ago, Stick With Azeem said:

I think the real problem is growing white nationalism in US, even if you take out the guns these people will find other ways of killing the invaders :coffee:

That's probably true, to an extent. But guns are just so effective at killing. That shooting in Daytona, Ohio apparently lasted around 30 seconds before a cop shot the fucker dead. In those 30 seconds, he fired off at least 41 rounds and shot 20 people.

If he'd tried the same thing with a knife or an axe or whatever, there's no way he'd have caused as much damage in just 30 seconds. He'd also probably be tired as fuck after the first couple victims.

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Banning assault weapons seems like an obvious step to take. That being so difficult to do in a country with such obvious issues with mass shootings just goes to show how deeply corrupt the US government are on this issue. The NRA seem like a batshit crazy organisation.

2 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

People say 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'

I always find it hilariously dumb how "people kill people" is somehow a way to justify people having access to something that makes it easier to kill. It pretty much translates to "guns aren't a problem unless people get a hold of them".

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14 minutes ago, 6666 said:

The NRA seem like a batshit crazy organisation.

Well the NRA is primarily a lobbying group for gun manufacturers. They don't give a shit about whether or not people die, they still want people to buy guns. They're not so much batshit crazy as they are just severely lacking in morality.

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This guy puts his channel on the line but he does it again xD

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I think the influence of money in politics in America is so prevalent now that some of the reforms on things such as tobacco smoking and asbestos which happened in previous eras would remain unresolved today as per the current gun violence situation.

The science would become contentious, it would become partisan, and the current conservative lean would prevail.

 

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I wonder when the NRA is going to realize that people are losing their lives over all this greed and actually start to do things to make this better. Seems like you hear about a shooting on an almost rhythmic cycle these days. I don't know if thats because we have more access to information or because its actually getting worse. could be both.

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There are 120 guns for every 100 people in US, twitter fact 

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19 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well the NRA is primarily a lobbying group for gun manufacturers. They don't give a shit about whether or not people die, they still want people to buy guns. They're not so much batshit crazy as they are just severely lacking in morality.

Rubbish. You clearly don't understand that a good guy with a gun will always trump a bad guy with a gun. :ph34r:

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The Dayton shooter is a baffling one. Pro socialism, pro choice, pro gun control, AntiTrump, etc. Even liked a post about gun control hours before the massacre. He even killed his sister in the crowd. 

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Obviously not a mass shooting but WTAF.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49253691

Quote

Texas police have apologised after an image of two white officers on horseback leading a handcuffed black man by a rope caused an outcry online.

Galveston Police Chief Vernon Hale said on Monday the technique was acceptable in some scenarios, but that "officers showed poor judgment in this instance".

He said there was no "malicious intent" and has changed department policy to "prevent the use of this technique".

Many people on social media said the photo evoked images of the slavery era.

According to a news release from the Galveston Police Department, the two mounted officers, named only as P Brosch and A Smith, arrested Donald Neely for criminal trespass.

The officers were taking Mr Neely to a police staging area. Police clarified that he was not tied with the rope, but "was handcuffed and a line was clipped to the handcuffs".

The department added: "We understand the negative perception of this action and believe it is most appropriate to cease the use of this technique."

_108215976_06xp-galveston1-superjumbo.jp

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8 minutes ago, Cicero said:

The Dayton shooter is a baffling one. Pro socialism, pro choice, pro gun control, AntiTrump, etc. Even liked a post about gun control hours before the massacre. He even killed his sister in the crowd. 

There's a theory that his sister was the primary target of the shooting. No idea if that's true or not. I think unlike the El Paso shooter, who clearly laid out his reasoning in the manifesto - this other guy seems like he may have just been an unstable nutjob. His ex-girlfriend said he had a history of mental issues and never received treatment/didn't think treatment was necessary for it.

I think they'll investigate into him, but my guess is it'll be like the Las Vegas shooter where no real motive is ever really established. Probably because he can't be questioned, because he was shot as he was trying to enter that bar. And I don't blame the police for shooting to kill in this instance, he had over 200 rounds left after firing 41 shots and he probably would have slaughtered everyone in that bar. I actually commend the cops for responding so quickly, it's insane how much damage he caused in just 30 seconds... but it's pretty remarkable the police came in 30 seconds after reports of gunfire and ended the situation... it's obviously a tragedy, because people were murdered, but it could have been so much worse.

I've seen some people say "background checks will only do anything if that person actively seeks treatment for their mental illness" and that's true. That's probably why automatic and semi-automatic weapons shouldn't be in the hands of ordinary people, if Americans must keep their guns make them keep the ones that make mass shootings more difficult.

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On 05/08/2019 at 20:23, The Artful Dodger said:

It's true. America is the country of self over anyone else, you are guaranteed the 'pursuit of happiness'. So if some sad fuck isn't getting laid or is a bit upset he has to take it out on everyone else, be it gays, women or ethnic minorities. The country is founded on slavery and racism, and its never even attempted to deal with that legacy. It is a toxic mix which is only going to get worse. The gun laws won't change and neither will the culture. 

Wasn’t the Dayton shooter a lefty? 

2 hours ago, Stan said:

Obviously not a mass shooting but WTAF.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49253691

_108215976_06xp-galveston1-superjumbo.jp

In fairness it’s not as if they could put him in the back of a squad car if they’re on horseback. 

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