Best Pundit for English Football?

[The Liquidator]

On 12/08/2018 at 18:38, The Palace Fan said:

I think the women are better than a lot of the men. Sarah Hypgrave aced Colin Murray on the FLS, Rachel Riley was capable at MNF and the ladies done well at the World Cup.

  Very brave

[Dave]

I've noticed they have tried to ease Jamie Carragher back in to a role at Sky Sports. Honestly what's the point.

[RandoEFC+]

How long was he even gone? I had completely forgotten about the spitting thing until it was announced he'd be returning to the team. If they'd just had him on the first MNF and said nothing I wouldn't have questioned it.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

How long was he even gone? I had completely forgotten about the spitting thing until it was announced he'd be returning to the team. If they'd just had him on the first MNF and said nothing I wouldn't have questioned it.

he was suspended since the incident happened to be fair. His return to Sky Sports was on the Launch thing they did on the Thursday evening last week. 

[The Artful Dodger]

8 hours ago, Stan said:

She's not the only one that does that though. 

No but she has been specifically mentioned as brilliant so her inability to grasp the English language is reasonable to mention. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Fuck the ones on television, the best football pundits for English football are here on TF365. You'll get a hell of a lot more insight on here than you do from pretty much every TV pundit... except maybe Carra and that inbred twat Neville. And even then, that's just a maybe.

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Fuck the ones on television, the best football pundits for English football are here on TF365. You'll get a hell of a lot more insight on here than you do from pretty much every TV pundit... except maybe Carra and that inbred twat Neville. And even then, that's just a maybe.

I think similarly. Pundits are paid to have an opinion on everyone. They often come across as knowing a little bit about everyone and a lot about no one (but their own club), Matt Le Tissier is a good example of this. I like how they try and bring in someone close to a club as a pundit when they're playing, but sometimes that person really hasn't been paying much attention to that club. I remember when Rob Lee first started doing punditry for our games years ago and thinking it was a breath of fresh air to hear him talk. A few years later he seemed to have spent too much time on the golf course and his opinions were inaccurate and out dated.

I personally would do away with regular pundits like Graeme Souness. Maybe Carragher and Gary Neville can iPad analyse play on Monday night's, but when it comes to actual games I want someone who knows a teams players inside out.

When you watch a game as a neutral you aren't focusing on the same thing as when you are watching your own team. The whole game becomes very different. The same as being there is different to tv. What you remember and what you notice changes. Pundits need to know everyone's strengths, weaknesses and how they fit in a team, can a pundit reasonably acquire this knowledge about every team in the league? Not without sitting down and watching 30 hours of football minimum every week. Even then they are only watching what the camera is watching and miss maybe aspects of play that can only be seen in the stadium. You'd think they'd do the homework given their job, some might, but the majority are so comfortable in their job they don't. Does anyone actually think the soccer saturday guys watch every game as homework? I don't. I think they watch the highlights. Match of the Day is a great example of how punditry doesn't work and is pointless.  These guys simply can't have watched every game that day in the necessary depth to pass solid judgment. That's why the insights are crap and often it's just a case of them talking you through a highlight by saying "great pass through the defence" and describing what everyone is watching with their own eyes. Sometimes they are probably relaying what they've been told, who they've been told had a good game. They become puppets and actors at best and get paid a hell of a lot fot it.

 

Neutral fans do tend to workout who is doing well or who is in form but this is often 1 or 2 months after the actual fans of that club have worked it out. That's why it is better to listen closely to those whose eyes are intently set on one club.

[The Liquidator]

For me the best pundit is the one who can tell me something about a game I am watching that I do not already know. Alas, 98% of pundits are living off their football name or the club they turned out for and are expressing views my young son would have been able to pick up during the game without any help from me or the former star in the studio.

I think, for example Sky coverage, they believe they are still gaining new fans to the game and have to baby step the viewers through the basics of the game. I have long felt the pundits TV stations & media in general insult us by feeding the constant garbage reporting\punditry. Years ago Glenn Hoddle’s line was to say when explaining something he had seen in a game, “From the professional eye”. This was a direct insult to all watching who in his eyes had never played/managed the game. No Glenn, we are just the mugs who have paid your wages for the last 25 years and not learnt a bloody thing about this basic of basic games!

Currently the standard of punditry, no matter where we hear them is very poor. I find it difficult to watch any TV game without muting the sound within a few minutes. It’s not just the wing man during games who have declined. The commentator too can be diabolical. The Northern guy on ITV is pathetic. So bad he got himself a bloody advert. I can’t stand Martin Tyler who has gone from commentating what is happening on the pitch, to singing from the sky song sheet of what they want to bring up to add to the soap they are turning our game into. The worst thou is the young, I say young I am guessing he is late 30’s, on BT Sport. His name escapes me, but he says the same things no matter the teams playing.

What makes me laugh these days, 25 years ago Jimmy Hill was the main man on Football TV and everyone would complain about him for having no buffer when he said things about teams players or managers. All these years later I find myself craving Hill Clough or even Atkinson, who didn’t pull any punches, told us all straight and made no excuse for themselves as they fingered individuals with honest open opinion.

As an example that there are one or two pundits worth a listen.

Last night I watched the Celtic European game and Chris Sutton gave both barrels to his former club for not improving their squad over the summer. I felt it was near the knuckle stuff. OUTSTANDING!

[ScoRoss]

There are a lot of former players that have a great knowledge of the game and can pick out aspects from a match. However, they struggle to communicate this well.

It can often be the lack of a great presenter, who know what to ask about to them that is the key to something being education to the viewer.

Sky have almost hit upon something with 'Gary Neville's Soccerbox' but ultimately it's just snippets here and there. You can instances where Gary Neville talks about his positioning, opponent's movement (and what full backs hate going up against, and stuff like Ian Wright talking about his thought process when it comes to taking a shot early.

(On a side note, the World needs more Jon Champion and Ally McCoist)

[Stan]

On 15/08/2018 at 21:27, ScoRoss said:

There are a lot of former players that have a great knowledge of the game and can pick out aspects from a match. However, they struggle to communicate this well.

It can often be the lack of a great presenter, who know what to ask about to them that is the key to something being education to the viewer.

Sky have almost hit upon something with 'Gary Neville's Soccerbox' but ultimately it's just snippets here and there. You can instances where Gary Neville talks about his positioning, opponent's movement (and what full backs hate going up against, and stuff like Ian Wright talking about his thought process when it comes to taking a shot early.

(On a side note, the World needs more Jon Champion and Ally McCoist)

On that last point, I thought Ally McCoist was brilliant at the World Cup. Only spoke when required (that sounds harsh but sometimes it's what's needed) but whenever he did say anything, it was proper analysis and input. Unlike other co-commentators like McManaman or Hargreaves or Owen who just exclaim at everything with exaggerated reactions, and not actually say anything productive.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, Stan said:

On that last point, I thought Ally McCoist was brilliant at the World Cup. Only spoke when required (that sounds harsh but sometimes it's what's needed) but whenever he did say anything, it was proper analysis and input. Unlike other co-commentators like McManaman or Hargreaves or Owen who just exclaim at everything with exaggerated reactions, and not actually say anything productive.

Ally McCoist is fantastic, I wish it were possible for him to be part of every commentary team. Cloning should be developed for that just for the sake of improving football broadcasting.

[Stan]

31 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

I like Carragher as a pundit, one of the best alongside Neville. 

Not a fan of Alex Scott mind, just feels forced.

Sometimes I don't mind Alex Scott as she can come out with sensible knowledge like any good male pundit would do (Neville, Rio Ferdinand, Carragher etc). 

But other times it'll be like 'what fucking match were you watching'? However, I do get this feeling with 'flavour of the month' pundits like Jermaine Jenas, Danny Mills, Danny Murphy - those that come across as if they've only watched about 5 mins of a player and base their delusions solely on that instead of perhaps looking at the bigger picture.

[The Artful Dodger]

Carragher is hopeless. Obviously spoon fed everything he says, the fact he wasnt sacked for gobbing at someone is testament to the crass, lowest common denominator culture of Sky Sports. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I’m legitimately curious to see how the Neville brothers eat spaghetti due to that stupid comment

[Stan]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I’m legitimately curious to see how the Neville brothers eat spaghetti due to that stupid comment

My 8-month old neice probably eats it more cleanly than them. 

[CaaC (John)+]

Don't listen to much of the commentary stuff, normally at the end of the programme or h/t I go the loo or make myself a cup of coffee or I am too pie-eyed drinking red wine to understand what they are talking about but if I had to pick any it would be Neville & Carra together, you can get a bit of a laugh also from them two. 

[Vegan Kel]

I really like loads to be honest, especially the ex-United players and a lot of the ex-Liverpool and Arsenal too. Gary Nevill is probably the best and he literally always mirrors my own views regarding the club. 

I went for Carragher though because he always has a way of making me think about what he's said even if I don't necessarily agree with it and he's quite funny too

[Guest]

One thing I don't like about football punditry is the way they go about criticizing, more so managers. @6666may relate to this. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't criticize managers. But for me a lot of them have this kind of I know better than them attitude. They belittle and laugh at decisions some managers make. For me it should be more that they are questioning certain decisions and saying they don't agree instead of asserting they are right. I mean someone like Paul Merson and Charlie Nicolas really have no idea how to run a football club. .

[Guest]

I've seen a bit of wengers punditry. He's brilliant. Miles ahead of most of these pundits who have never managed a game in their life

 

[CaaC (John)+]

14 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

What station does he work at?

This one 

 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Cannabis said:

Ah, BEIN. Don't really watch it much.

There's a clip on the internet of him reviewing the man utd-psg game. It does show the difference between a manager and a pundit.

[IgnisExcubitor]

Stephen Warnock is another good pundit. When he speaks, you can tell that he has actually taken the effort to watch other leagues. Comes across as knowledgeable and sound, and doesn't give any OTT opinions. 

 

Wenger above sounds like that kind and smart teacher who cares about the subject and his listeners, and would calmly explain the same point ten-twenty times until everyone understands the topic. 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, IgnisExcubitor said:

Stephen Warnock is another good pundit. When he speaks, you can tell that he has actually taken the effort to watch other leagues. Comes across as knowledgeable and sound, and doesn't give any OTT opinions. 

 

Wenger above sounds like that kind and smart teacher who cares about the subject and his listeners, and would calmly explain the same point ten-twenty times until everyone understands the topic. 

Yeah he is. And he goes into a lot of detail. He does acknowledge things that man utd did wrong that we often did but in a very uncondensending way. Clearly shows that pointing out a problem and fixing it is two different things. Worth a view @6666

[Vegan Kel]

I don't really get the whole 'he never managed a football club so he can't criticise football managers' argument. That's like saying managers like Wenger and Mourinho who played at a piss poor level shouldn't be telling top class players what to do. They're different jobs. 

[The Artful Dodger]

2 minutes ago, Salford Kel said:

I don't really get the whole 'he never managed a football club so he can't criticise football managers' argument. That's like saying managers like Wenger and Mourinho who played at a piss poor level shouldn't be telling top class players what to do. They're different jobs. 

It's an ad hominem argument used by people who are struggling to cope with the debate so try and belittle the person making the argument. It's fun to ridicule people when you've got them sewn up, but this line is usually used to deflect from their inability to counter a point. @6666 uses it frequently.