George Floyd Death - Derek Chauvin Guilty of Murder

[DeadLinesman]

5 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

I understand in states that carry the death penalty the need for a unanimous verdict but the concept of it in cases like this are concerning. Especially given a jury in the UK usually deliberate on average for more than six hours before making a decision.

I’ve seen how American jury’s have voted in the past. For me, it’s been set up for him to get away with the most serious charges. Stating this though somehow makes me a racist sympathiser  

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

I understand in states that carry the death penalty the need for a unanimous verdict but the concept of it in cases like this are concerning. Especially given a jury in the UK usually deliberated on average for more than six hours before making a decision.

I could be wrong - but I thought all US juries need a unanimous verdict, death penalty or not. I don’t know if that’s only for criminal court or not, and I’m not 100% sure all cases need a unanimous verdict.

Typically I’m against the death penalty - although one of my big worries about juries condemning a man to their death, that they’re condemning the wrong man, doesn’t really apply to this case because George Floyd’s death was caught on camera and shown to the world. Even so, I’m still against the death penalty in any case... including this one.

But a part of me does think if the jury takes more than 9 minutes to deliberate and they do decide he should die... they’ve taken more time considering his life than he considered George Floyd.

Although I feel a bit gross for thinking that because I think the death penalty is just morally wrong

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’ve seen how American jury’s have voted in the past. For me, it’s been set up for him to get away with the most serious charges. Stating this though somehow makes me a racist sympathiser  

Police unions are so strong too, they’ve probably gone and hired a very expensive lawyer who’s good at his job.

There’s a reason why so many people get killed by police in the US, and ultimately the harshest penalty the cop will get is paid leave for a while before they return back to policing.

It’s a bit fucked, but the best hope for justice in this situation is that Chauvin’s case was too high profile, his crime too reviled around the world, that maybe good lawyers don’t want to touch it.

But you’re 100% right that in the US the system really isn’t built for protecting against police misconduct.

[Danny]

16 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

I understand in states that carry the death penalty the need for a unanimous verdict but the concept of it in cases like this are concerning. Especially given a jury in the UK usually deliberate on average for more than six hours before making a decision.

 

11 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’ve seen how American jury’s have voted in the past. For me, it’s been set up for him to get away with the most serious charges. Stating this though somehow makes me a racist sympathiser  

I've a limited knowledge on the law in the UK and US, but my girlfriend has a law degree so has shown me the odd thing here and there and one of the craziest things that I've found out over there was partially through listening to Serial, but that the police are still allowed to almost force and harry someone into admitting a crime, using all sorts of prompts to make it easier for them to say they done something when they didn't. I don't think anyone really has any trust in the legal system managing this case

[Stan]

Talking about who to believe, are we definitely believing @Danny has a girlfriend or nah? 

[Danny]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

Talking about who to believe, are we definitely believing @Danny has a girlfriend or nah? 

@Toinho please verify her existence

[Cicero]

15 minutes ago, Danny said:

 

I've a limited knowledge on the law in the UK and US, but my girlfriend has a law degree so has shown me the odd thing here and there and one of the craziest things that I've found out over there was partially through listening to Serial, but that the police are still allowed to almost force and harry someone into admitting a crime, using all sorts of prompts to make it easier for them to say they done something when they didn't. I don't think anyone really has any trust in the legal system managing this case

There are several documentaries on Netflix showing such. it's incredible and at times disguising the tactics they use in interrogation. You genuinely question their morality at times.

Below is the perfect example. 

 

[Machado]

On 27/10/2020 at 18:35, Cicero said:

Police are only trained to shoot to kill. Not to injure or maim. Which in my opinion lies the problem. Training. A gun is only to be used in a life threatening situation. 

SWAT and Military are trained to take these injury shots. I cannot understand how its not in the realm of possibility to effectively train police officers to do the same. 

The police's goal is to shoot to stop, not to kill. They're trained to shoot center mass which is sensible. Aiming at the legs could see the bullet ricochet and hit someone else.

[Cicero]

4 minutes ago, Machado said:

The police's goal is to shoot to stop, not to kill. They're trained to shoot center mass which is sensible. Aiming at the legs could see the bullet ricochet and hit someone else.

Yeah I've redacted that argument. 

[Machado]

Life sentences are harsh and rarely justified but sometimes it is indeed the only way to protect the public, short of the death penalty.

In this case I don't think Chauvin poses too great a risk of seriously harming others if he's released after serving a sentence, granted he's forbidden of working as a cop. Of course it's more complex than this, but that's my two cents.

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, Machado said:

The police's goal is to shoot to stop, not to kill. They're trained to shoot center mass which is sensible. Aiming at the legs could see the bullet ricochet and hit someone else.

Imo you aren't firing a gun at something you aren't prepared to kill. 

 

9 hours ago, Machado said:

Life sentences are harsh and rarely justified but sometimes it is indeed the only way to protect the public, short of the death penalty.

In this case I don't think Chauvin poses too great a risk of seriously harming others if he's released after serving a sentence, granted he's forbidden of working as a cop. Of course it's more complex than this, but that's my two cents.

I'd agree with this except for the fact Chauvin's got a history of violent behavior - granted as a cop. Idk how I really feel about life sentences - I think they're a very harsh sentence, but I also fundamentally disagree with the idea of the death penalty.

I don't think he should be let out though, his crime was incredibly serious and a massive abuse of police power - as well as the effect he had in eroding confidence and trust in the police (which, tbh, isn't that high to begin with in the first place - rightly or wrongly). Slowly choking a man to death is a pretty horrific crime, and that video of the murder was seen all around the world. 

[Azeem]

11 hours ago, Machado said:

The police's goal is to shoot to stop, not to kill. They're trained to shoot center mass which is sensible. Aiming at the legs could see the bullet ricochet and hit someone else.

Policing around the world needs some serious retrospect. Few months ago there was a similar case here where they killed a 21 year old for not stopping his car at a regular checkpoint. Shoot for the tires or something ffs and it wasn't some no go area either regular checking on the highway.

[Harry]

20 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

But you’re 100% right that in the US the system really isn’t built for protecting against police misconduct.

What concerns me is that police have always leaned towards the conservative side of politics. But the conservative side of politics has never been in worse shape, and is really warping many people's perspectives of reality.

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

What concerns me is that police have always leaned towards the conservative side of politics. But the conservative side of politics has never been in worse shape, and is really warping many people's perspectives of reality.

 

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement

pre-Trump, it was a big concern of the FBI. Then there were 4 years of not giving a shit about it. Now it’s being taken seriously again.

and I imagine in 3-7 years they’ll go back to not giving a shit

[Machado]

On 31/03/2021 at 02:32, Dr. Gonzo said:

Imo you aren't firing a gun at something you aren't prepared to kill. 

I supposed they have to be prepared to kill since they carry a deadly weapon, but it's not why they shoot at suspects.

[Cicero]

Apparently the prosecutors' witnesses are providing more reasonable doubt than the actual defence....

[Cicero]

More cases of some police negligence the past week. Only reminds me of htis. 

 

[6666]

An example of how to stay calm under pressure when dealing with an altercation. A shame the officers didn't handle things the same way.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

The policewoman who shot a man and claiming she mistook a gun for a taser needs to be put away for a long time. No way in hell do I believe that excuse having seen what a taser looked like

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The policewoman who shot a man and claiming she mistook a gun for a taser needs to be put away for a long time. No way in hell do I believe that excuse having seen what a taser looked like

If you're a police officer how do you feel about this? You obviously see that the guy with the pepper spray went too far. And that most of these viral events that's the case. But then you see how much the online movement is citing it as proof that all cops are bastards, and that the police need to be defunded.

People suggesting you're trigger happy when you legitimately have cause to be shitting yourself about whether you're gonna get shot because you live in a country where guns are ubiquitous.

People suggesting you're racist because there's a statistical imbalance in the racial profile of those you arrest, when the reality is that the imbalances are a product of inequality and not you being a closet KKK member.

You'd feel pretty reluctant to side with that group, and you'd probably feel unfairly maligned because of the generalisations you see being made about you and your colleagues....

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 hours ago, Harry said:

If you're a police officer how do you feel about this? You obviously see that the guy with the pepper spray went too far. And that most of these viral events that's the case. But then you see how much the online movement is citing it as proof that all cops are bastards, and that the police need to be defunded.

People suggesting you're trigger happy when you legitimately have cause to be shitting yourself about whether you're gonna get shot because you live in a country where guns are ubiquitous.

People suggesting you're racist because there's a statistical imbalance in the racial profile of those you arrest, when the reality is that the imbalances are a product of inequality and not you being a closet KKK member.

You'd feel pretty reluctant to side with that group, and you'd probably feel unfairly maligned because of the generalisations you see being made about you and your colleagues....

 

Doesnt really legitimise mistaking a bright yellow device that’s significantly lighter than a pistol, for your pistol thats holstered on the other side of your body though?

She was a veteran of the force for over 20 years, head of the police union... she knew it wasn’t her taser she was going for, imo.

And if she didn’t, then there’s a really good case that experience doesn’t help these people at all if they panic, and if that’s the case they shouldn’t be armed.

Imo the worst part of this story is the kid’s mum (who was white) was on the phone with her son... and heard him get shot after the policewoman shouted “taser!”

At the end of the day, it’s pretty clear there’s some serious issues with America. Too many guns and rampant racism.

[Danny]

8 hours ago, Harry said:

If you're a police officer how do you feel about this? You obviously see that the guy with the pepper spray went too far. And that most of these viral events that's the case. But then you see how much the online movement is citing it as proof that all cops are bastards, and that the police need to be defunded.

People suggesting you're trigger happy when you legitimately have cause to be shitting yourself about whether you're gonna get shot because you live in a country where guns are ubiquitous.

People suggesting you're racist because there's a statistical imbalance in the racial profile of those you arrest, when the reality is that the imbalances are a product of inequality and not you being a closet KKK member.

You'd feel pretty reluctant to side with that group, and you'd probably feel unfairly maligned because of the generalisations you see being made about you and your colleagues....

 

Then you shouldn’t be in the police if your reluctance to “side with that group” results in you shooting someone and saying you thought it was your taser 

[Stan]

 

 

 

[Stan]

Verdict decided. 

Count 1 - unintentional second degree murder. Guilty. 

Count 2 - 3rd degree murder. Guilty. 

Count 3 - 2nd degree manslaughter. Guilty. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

Verdict decided. 

Count 1 - unintentional second degree murder. Guilty. 

Count 2 - 3rd degree murder. Guilty. 

Count 3 - 2nd degree manslaughter. Guilty. 

Thank fucking god