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Racism in TV & Film

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Since the George Floyd news, protests and the Black Lives Matter campaign, there's been a few instances of TV shows being removed from streaming platforms like Little Britain, Come Fly With Me, The Mighty Boosh, The League of Gentlemen and one episode of Fawlty Towers.

Some of these shows were aired in times where there wasn't such a focus on equality for all but do you think it's right to be removing them? 

Personally, I feel that removing them is ignoring that those prejudices happened and we don't learn from it. A lot of 'historic' shows especially in the US display a message beforehand that highlight that the show was originally aired during a time where these things were more acceptable humour and that they are not reflective of society now.

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I don't think they should be removed.

It's people who have taken the recent justified protests way too far.

It's comedy. It's going to be close to the bone and sometimes offensive.I think I've referenced it before on here but Ricky Gervais summed it up well in one of his stand-ups (can't remember which). You're going to be offended by something (let's say disability) but a few minutes later you'll be laughing at a Jimmy Saville joke.

Stuff like Little Britain and Come Fly With Me wasn't made to offend, as such. If you see it for what it is (comedy) then be prepared that there'll be some things which might not sit right. The Fawlty Towers thing was even done as satire - John Cleese has said the Major's character, being overtly offensive within the programme, was done to take the piss as to how those kind of people in real life were decades ago. 

I think it's gone too far having these programmes removed. Yes they probably won't be made like that today but that's the point of how good a programme can be and shows you what comedy/TV was like back in the day. Same for all the statues etc - I think it's going too far asking for all of them to be removed. I don't even think this is the kind of thing that majority of people want and once again detracts from the real message of justice and equality wanted. I bet if you asked several members of BLM protestors this is not the outcome they wanted or the message they wanted to portray. It's people on the ultra-liberal scale taking things too far. 

 

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2 hours ago, Stan said:

 

It's people on the ultra-liberal scale taking things too far. 

 

Whilst I agree on the points you made I'm surprised by your choice of words in the quoted sentence, since censorship is essentially illiberal.

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1 minute ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Whilst I agree on the points you made I'm surprised by your choice of words in the quoted sentence, since censorship is essentially illiberal.

It was that or far-left to be quite honest!

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It's madness, and it sets a worrying precedent. Those movies/TV shows are nothing but a product of their times, and I'd say it's by far more important to showcase that specific historical contest and its flaws instead of just outright banning everything that might be deemed racist, sexist or insensitive and offensive in any way. Banning and censoring culture does absolutely nothing towards ending discrimination and eradicating prejudices.

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Not a massive fan of censoring without context. 

However, I will say that since the wife and I have become even MORE aware of systematic racism, we watched a new show with our daughter, and in the show, the rich people were all white, their drivers and yard work were black. Shockingly racist at it's core and I can't help of cringe when I think about it. 

Turns out we aren't going to be watching that show in the house, but it's our choice. 

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15 minutes ago, Eco said:

Not a massive fan of censoring without context. 

However, I will say that since the wife and I have become even MORE aware of systematic racism, we watched a new show with our daughter, and in the show, the rich people were all white, their drivers and yard work were black. Shockingly racist at it's core and I can't help of cringe when I think about it. 

Turns out we aren't going to be watching that show in the house, but it's our choice. 

Which show is that?

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1 minute ago, nudge said:

Which show is that?

I believe it's called Sofia the First. 

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Just now, Eco said:

I believe it's called Sofia the First. 

Aaah, it's an animated show. Should have probably realised that, considering that you said you were watching it with your kid xD 

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Just now, nudge said:

Aaah, it's an animated show. Should have probably realised that, considering that you said you were watching it with your kid xD 

Yeah - we watched about half an episode before turning it off. Despite the main character being a girl, it appeared to be very sexiest as well. Just a strange show really. 

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28 minutes ago, nudge said:

Aaah, it's an animated show. Should have probably realised that, considering that you said you were watching it with your kid xD 

Obviously didn't pick it up at the time as a kid but having seen random clips of animated films, they had a lot of adult content/connotations in them xD

Also, wouldn't put it past @Eco to watch animated films whether with his wife and kid or not :ph34r:

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Just now, Stan said:

Also, wouldn't put it past @Eco to watch animated films whether with his wife and kid or not :ph34r:

Well, that would be the first. As someone who never cared for comics or cartoons, I typically don't want anything unless it's sports. xD

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1 hour ago, nudge said:

It's madness, and it sets a worrying precedent. Those movies/TV shows are nothing but a product of their times, and I'd say it's by far more important to showcase that specific historical contest and its flaws instead of just outright banning everything that might be deemed racist, sexist or insensitive and offensive in any way. Banning and censoring culture does absolutely nothing towards ending discrimination and eradicating prejudices.

It is worrying, At what point does it stop?? When will people be satisfied?? How many books need to be burned, films destroyed or statues toppled before we can all say we are where we need to be??

That will never happen. Someone, somewhere will always be unhappy about something and will just find other sources of dissatisfaction. I also understand that 'Gone With The Wind' is now being removed off the back of this movement. 

You can't just erase history because something made in that period is now deemed inappropriate and I still can't get my head around the picking and choosing of what people are angry about at any given time. If we are pulling down statues because some people were responsible for slavery then why does slavery only seem to be an issue if you are Black?? Slavery is slavery so let's start tearing down the Pyramids as well and while we are at it let's all go to Rome and start tearing down the last bits of the Colosseum as well. I am all for good causes but let's not pretend that injustice or inequality has only ever happened to one particular race of people.. 

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Pretty sure people have critcised Lord of the Rings due to the lack of ethnicity. 

It's bloody middle earth. 

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10 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

It is worrying, At what point does it stop?? When will people be satisfied?? How many books need to be burned, films destroyed or statues toppled before we can all say we are where we need to be??

That will never happen. Someone, somewhere will always be unhappy about something and will just find other sources of dissatisfaction. I also understand that 'Gone With The Wind' is now being removed off the back of this movement. 

You can't just erase history because something made in that period is now deemed inappropriate and I still can't get my head around the picking and choosing of what people are angry about at any given time. If we are pulling down statues because some people were responsible for slavery then why does slavery only seem to be an issue if you are Black?? Slavery is slavery so let's start tearing down the Pyramids as well and while we are at it let's all go to Rome and start tearing down the last bits of the Colosseum as well. I am all for good causes but let's not pretend that injustice or inequality has only ever happened to one particular race of people.. 

I read a few John Cleese's tweets today, both regarding the removal of Fawlty Towers and the issue of toppling statues, among other things. Thought it's worth reading...

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Eco said:

Yeah - we watched about half an episode before turning it off. Despite the main character being a girl, it appeared to be very sexiest as well. Just a strange show really. 

You know there’s Princesses that are in that show that are black, right?

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Just now, DeadLinesman said:

You know there’s Princesses that are in that show that are black, right?

xD Haha no. 

Like I said, we made it about 1/2 through the first episode before the wife turned it off. I noticed the guys working in the grass and driver were all black, though. 

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1 hour ago, nudge said:

It's madness, and it sets a worrying precedent. Those movies/TV shows are nothing but a product of their times, and I'd say it's by far more important to showcase that specific historical contest and its flaws instead of just outright banning everything that might be deemed racist, sexist or insensitive and offensive in any way. Banning and censoring culture does absolutely nothing towards ending discrimination and eradicating prejudices.

White middle class lefties!

They should be used for testing viruses on instead of poor chimpanzees.

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Eco said:

xD Haha no. 

Like I said, we made it about 1/2 through the first episode before the wife turned it off. I noticed the guys working in the grass and driver were all black, though. 

It’s genuinely not that bad mate 😂

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I am surprised that no one has come after 'Sixteen Candles' yet. :D

45 minutes ago, Carnivore Chris said:

White middle class lefties!

Not just white, but white, brown, black etc educated middle class lefties with a half decent 'social media presence'. It's these groups that are overwhelmingly  vocal and unnecessarily too eager. As if they are trying to show how remorseful they are. 

All a fucking act to show online to other equally inept idiots. In reality they don't really care or are bothered to make the real changes.

@topic

It's sad that corporations are listening to these Muppets, despite evidence that listening to them causes more harm and ignoring them actually helps.

Look at the GTA or Netflix when it came to their show Instatiable.

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29 minutes ago, IgnisExcubitor said:

It's sad that corporations are listening to these Muppets, despite evidence that listening to them causes more harm and ignoring them actually helps.

 

More harm in what way?

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I don't really agree with removing shows that contain racist material. I think there should be a warning before the show but I don't think they should be removed. I think it will create more divide if anything. There were so shows that weren't actually racist but maybe some people think they were. Little Britain for example. Although it may contain racist material some of it was actually taking the piss out of racist people. The sketch with the women couldn't understand the Indian women even though she spoke perfect English was an example.

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I don't watch many movies or series so this doesn't really affect me a whole lot but I hope one of Disney's recent films gets taken down so that they lose their shit over how they aren't racist and have been encouraging equality across the world :D 

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On 12/06/2020 at 14:07, Bluewolf said:

It is worrying, At what point does it stop?? When will people be satisfied?? How many books need to be burned, films destroyed or statues toppled before we can all say we are where we need to be??

Your whole post is spot on but YES to this bit here.

How does one put an end to this? Social justice isn't something that is solved with one decision. It will take years to prove equality in any country. You can't prove justice in just a few days. It takes just one spark for it all to set off again.

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Next Toy Story should be an all girls toy cast standing up against a sexist little boy who always plays them in patriarchal roles

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For the record countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and Middle Eastern ones are not so dusty and have orange skies all the time as shown in Netflix's every other show 

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8 minutes ago, Azeem said:

Next Toy Story should be an all girls toy cast standing up against a sexist little boy who always plays them in patriarchal roles

They've already tried this with Ghostbusters and boy oh boy. But this is Hollywood and there is always one constant 'We shall not learn from our mistakes'

Back on Topic

It's weird when you think about how this could potentially end for an industry I quite like ... gaming. Now, we all know how free creative licensing is when it comes to video games and how much more easier it is to portray events in a game with major racial/abusive connotations. But, I fear that once they get one with movies this is the next thing they'll go after. If you ever play the second Wolfenstein and watch the abuse that is portrayed with a recurring theme throughout it (dog first, mother second) you could make the argument that Bethesda are promoting animal and domestic violence.

Or lets go with GTA because if you really want to get upset about racism then try one of the newer ones where the portrayal of the protagonist isn't in a good light at all. Either ways its gotten a bit silly and the question of where do you really stop will have to be sorted out sooner rather than later.

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On 12/06/2020 at 19:33, nudge said:

"We were not supporting his views, we were making fun of them. If they can’t see that, if people are too stupid to see that, what can one say?"

 

:congrats:

 

From what I've read, in 2003 the BBC edited out the racist language scene in Fawlty Towers with John Cleese's approval. Netflix and UKTV were showing the unedited version which they've now pulled. 

Cleese seemingly was part of the era, the generation, willingly cleaning their language up when it came to using derogatory words for black people and minorities. Now all of a sudden it's something to be allowed? Maybe not by Cleese but by others. Curious. It seems to me that the last five or so years have created black and white positions. You're either team cancel culture or team free speech. No grey allowed any more, pick a side and adopt the views religiously.

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