American Politics Discussion

[JoshBRFC+]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

You asked a two  questions and I asked you to explain why you think that way so I can answer them. It's pretty obvious mate

Fuck me sideways and call me @MUFC my god you’re hard work. 

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, JoshBRFC said:

Fuck me sideways and call me @MUFC my god you’re hard work. 

?

- why biden bad?
- what makes you ask this question?
- me watch two podcasts
- can you explain what they say in these podcasts
- *gets angry and confused*

I don't know what you want. I tried to help you, I just needed to know what stuff in particular about Biden you saying Americans don't like. I can't read your mind.

[JoshBRFC+]

36 minutes ago, Spike said:

?

- why biden bad?
- what makes you ask this question?
- me watch two podcasts
- can you explain what they say in these podcasts
- *gets angry and confused*

I don't know what you want. I tried to help you, I just needed to know what stuff in particular about Biden you saying Americans don't like. I can't read your mind.

Are you even a yank? Basically how has it been under Biden? Stop trying to be a smart arse, only room for one of us. 
 

PS - I don’t get angry

Edited February 11, 2022 by JoshBRFC

[Spike]

6 minutes ago, JoshBRFC said:

Are you even a yank? Basically how has it been under Biden? Stop trying to be a smart arse, only room for one of us. 
 

PS - I don’t get angry

No, I only live in the USA, I am not American. I wasn’t trying to be a smartarse I just wanted more specific questions so I could answer, otherwise it would have been a pretty boring and straightforward answer that you probably already knew it the answer. I was expecting more along the lines of, my podcasts say ‘XY has happened in the USA’ or this particular policy has failed. 

It’s fine, I guess? He inherited the pandemic and he isn’t as confrontational as Trump so it is nice to not hear about him every single day. People are mad a few promises haven’t been fulfilled but ultimately I witness a lot less bellyaching and divisiveness. I feel like people don’t have to double down and cope with the idea that the guy they voted for, Trump is a moron, so people are less up his Biden’s arse trying to justify everything.

I think most people don’t like him because he is 240 years old and a career politician that has held a variety of views in the past that don’t work modernly. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, JoshBRFC said:

Random question here after watching a podcast of an American.
 

From an outsider before the elections I was pro Biden and against Trump. 
 

However, from an outsider now it sounds like Biden is just as bad if not worse? How do the Americans on here feel about Biden so far? I watch regular podcasts but don’t necessarily keep up with the mainstream news. 
 

Just curious as I find it interesting!  

Like @Spike, I'm not an American... but I live here, so I can maybe answer.

Tbh, I don't think Biden is "as bad" or "worse" than Trump. With Trump there was just a tsunami of scandal, it felt like every week there was a new issue... and still today, the other parts of US government are still trying to deal with the behavior of Trump that often times broke many US laws.

But I don't think Biden is a great president - but tbh, I never expected him to be that great of a president. I liked him more than Trump, but politically he's pretty much a bland middle of the road/business as usual type US president. And Kamala Harris is someone that I think has a better reputation with Democrats outside the state where she was elected as a Senator.

But my biggest criticisms of Biden go beyond the big criticism that a lot of the more right-wing media like to hammer him for. They go after things like: inflation & the economic aftermath of COVID, which is his fault to an extent because he's President... but a big part of the issue there is he inherited a mess from a President that didn't really take steps to properly mobilise against the virus and even encouraged people not care about the pandemic. And then shit like petrol prices, where the President doesn't really have more power to do anything.

My biggest criticism of Biden (and the Democratic party at large) is that he's kept a lot of Trump's foreign policy the same, while also responsible for the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan that is a direct result of the US invasion, occupation, and sudden withdrawal. And I don't think "well I'm the President, so I had to stick with my predecessors deal with the Taliban" really flies when the guy before him didn't stick with his predecessors deal with an also shitty but less shitty group of people in the region.

And with his domestic agenda, he and his party have sat on their slight advantage and managed to barely get anything meaningful passed. Trump only really got one meaningful law through congress - his big tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy... but at least that was a cornerstone of his agenda. Biden campaigned on a lot of things but it doesn't look like he'll get any meaningful legislation passed on his watch... and it's looking like Republicans will take the House and Senate again, and then he'll definitely not get anything passed.

But he's basically been the President I expected him to be. Moderate Democrats might as well be the moderate Republicans of 10 years ago, so it's not surprising that he doesn't seem too different to Trump.

[JoshBRFC+]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Like @Spike, I'm not an American... but I live here, so I can maybe answer.

Tbh, I don't think Biden is "as bad" or "worse" than Trump. With Trump there was just a tsunami of scandal, it felt like every week there was a new issue... and still today, the other parts of US government are still trying to deal with the behavior of Trump that often times broke many US laws.

But I don't think Biden is a great president - but tbh, I never expected him to be that great of a president. I liked him more than Trump, but politically he's pretty much a bland middle of the road/business as usual type US president. And Kamala Harris is someone that I think has a better reputation with Democrats outside the state where she was elected as a Senator.

But my biggest criticisms of Biden go beyond the big criticism that a lot of the more right-wing media like to hammer him for. They go after things like: inflation & the economic aftermath of COVID, which is his fault to an extent because he's President... but a big part of the issue there is he inherited a mess from a President that didn't really take steps to properly mobilise against the virus and even encouraged people not care about the pandemic. And then shit like petrol prices, where the President doesn't really have more power to do anything.

My biggest criticism of Biden (and the Democratic party at large) is that he's kept a lot of Trump's foreign policy the same, while also responsible for the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan that is a direct result of the US invasion, occupation, and sudden withdrawal. And I don't think "well I'm the President, so I had to stick with my predecessors deal with the Taliban" really flies when the guy before him didn't stick with his predecessors deal with an also shitty but less shitty group of people in the region.

And with his domestic agenda, he and his party have sat on their slight advantage and managed to barely get anything meaningful passed. Trump only really got one meaningful law through congress - his big tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy... but at least that was a cornerstone of his agenda. Biden campaigned on a lot of things but it doesn't look like he'll get any meaningful legislation passed on his watch... and it's looking like Republicans will take the House and Senate again, and then he'll definitely not get anything passed.

But he's basically been the President I expected him to be. Moderate Democrats might as well be the moderate Republicans of 10 years ago, so it's not surprising that he doesn't seem too different to Trump.

Thanks mate. Pretty much answered what I was asking and more. I’ve just heard a lot recently but wanted to hear it from someone first hand. How long have you lived over there for? And why? I forget after not posting for a while .

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, JoshBRFC said:

Thanks mate. Pretty much answered what I was asking and more. I’ve just heard a lot recently but wanted to hear it from someone first hand. How long have you lived over there for? And why? I forget after not posting for a while .

It's been... 10 years roughly, I think.

It's kind of a long story, but I was going mental working at the family business after uni. For a bit I got another job that sort of put me on a different path and on that different path I was basically made aware another degree could open up a lot of doors for me and I was recommended some schools to apply to, including a couple of schools in the US. So I applied to some schools - and the best one I got into was in the US.

I didn't really want to go, but after talking a lot with my parents/other family members I got a lot of encouragement to make the move. And then while I was getting my degree I ended up getting an internship where I'd end up getting a job offer by the company that would sponsor my first working visa in the US that was offering me a lot more money than I was getting the one job offer I had back home (if I was getting any UK offers at all, I got so many rejections it was really disheartening).

So I took the option with more money, which was also nice for me because at the time I'd also started dating the woman who I'd eventually marry. Now I've ended up pretty settled here, even though when I first came over I thought I'd be back in the UK ASAP 

[JoshBRFC+]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's been... 10 years roughly, I think.

It's kind of a long story, but I was going mental working at the family business after uni. For a bit I got another job that sort of put me on a different path and on that different path I was basically made aware another degree could open up a lot of doors for me and I was recommended some schools to apply to, including a couple of schools in the US. So I applied to some schools - and the best one I got into was in the US.

I didn't really want to go, but after talking a lot with my parents/other family members I got a lot of encouragement to make the move. And then while I was getting my degree I ended up getting an internship where I'd end up getting a job offer by the company that would sponsor my first working visa in the US that was offering me a lot more money than I was getting the one job offer I had back home (if I was getting any UK offers at all, I got so many rejections it was really disheartening).

So I took the option with more money, which was also nice for me because at the time I'd also started dating the woman who I'd eventually marry. Now I've ended up pretty settled here, even though when I first came over I thought I'd be back in the UK ASAP 

Interesting mate, fair play to ya. Sounds like you’ve lived quite the life thus far and the calculated risk paid off. You ever any plans to bring the Yank Missus back home  ? 
 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, JoshBRFC said:

Interesting mate, fair play to ya. Sounds like you’ve lived quite the life thus far and the calculated risk paid off. You ever any plans to bring the Yank Missus back home  ? 
 

 

Yeah we've been back home a few times. The last time was a few months before the pandemic ruined the world.

If you mean permanently - we've thought about it and talked about it. But it's a bit hard to do without at least one of his lining up a job and once we get the offer we'd have to rapidly make plans and figure out what we're doing. We're open to it though. I probably am moreso than her 

[JoshBRFC+]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah we've been back home a few times. The last time was a few months before the pandemic ruined the world

TF365 meet up is a great reason to come home  @Carnivore Chris is organising it  

Edited February 11, 2022 by JoshBRFC

[Spike]

smh my answer isn't good enough

[Carnivore Chris]

16 hours ago, JoshBRFC said:

TF365 meet up is a great reason to come home  @Carnivore Chris is organising it  

We'll go to Amsterdam like @Stan said a while back.

[Viva la FCB+]

On 11/02/2022 at 10:02, Dr. Gonzo said:

Like @Spike, I'm not an American... but I live here, so I can maybe answer.

Tbh, I don't think Biden is "as bad" or "worse" than Trump. With Trump there was just a tsunami of scandal, it felt like every week there was a new issue... and still today, the other parts of US government are still trying to deal with the behavior of Trump that often times broke many US laws.

But I don't think Biden is a great president - but tbh, I never expected him to be that great of a president. I liked him more than Trump, but politically he's pretty much a bland middle of the road/business as usual type US president. And Kamala Harris is someone that I think has a better reputation with Democrats outside the state where she was elected as a Senator.

But my biggest criticisms of Biden go beyond the big criticism that a lot of the more right-wing media like to hammer him for. They go after things like: inflation & the economic aftermath of COVID, which is his fault to an extent because he's President... but a big part of the issue there is he inherited a mess from a President that didn't really take steps to properly mobilise against the virus and even encouraged people not care about the pandemic. And then shit like petrol prices, where the President doesn't really have more power to do anything.

My biggest criticism of Biden (and the Democratic party at large) is that he's kept a lot of Trump's foreign policy the same, while also responsible for the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan that is a direct result of the US invasion, occupation, and sudden withdrawal. And I don't think "well I'm the President, so I had to stick with my predecessors deal with the Taliban" really flies when the guy before him didn't stick with his predecessors deal with an also shitty but less shitty group of people in the region.

And with his domestic agenda, he and his party have sat on their slight advantage and managed to barely get anything meaningful passed. Trump only really got one meaningful law through congress - his big tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy... but at least that was a cornerstone of his agenda. Biden campaigned on a lot of things but it doesn't look like he'll get any meaningful legislation passed on his watch... and it's looking like Republicans will take the House and Senate again, and then he'll definitely not get anything passed.

But he's basically been the President I expected him to be. Moderate Democrats might as well be the moderate Republicans of 10 years ago, so it's not surprising that he doesn't seem too different to Trump.

Im a little late to the party but I will say you covered it pretty well. Ill throw one important thing in here though. Bidens is very, very hard pressed to get any legislature passed for a couple important reasons. Mitch McConnell has publically stated the Republicans will vote down anything in the senate he tries to pass and theyve been doing as much. 

The Dem's have only a very slight majority and two on the bubble senators basically have roadblocked anything getting through (Manchin and Sinema) I wont get too much into details here but they benefit massively monetarily to be doing what their doing and they arent listening to or abiding by their constituents and their best interests. 

History wont be kind to Trump. Once this shitstorm passes through if and when democracy survives I have 0 doubt he will go down as the worst president in US history.

[Waylander]

For me the Bush regime was the worst.

Trumps the most bizarre.

What comes next.

News on the alternative front.

One report - It has been acknowledged by a Supreme court investigation that voting machines can be hacked yet arguments over how that is worded publicly. No mention of any action to be taken.

Biden wanted to give 800,000 illegals voting rights despite calls of vote gerrymandering, think it is still on the agenda yet not through.

Biden's infrastructure program to repair things like dilapidated bridges is meant to add trillions to US debt and so also faces political resistance.

Ukraine, well people said that would be an issue before he was inaugurated, Trump was big on China and Biden is big on confronting Russia over Ukraine.

Israel and Iran is on the backburner neither Trump or Biden appear to have helped or stirred things up though still time if Biden decides to. 

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Waylander said:

For me the Bush regime was the worst.

Trumps the most bizarre.

What comes next.

News on the alternative front.

One report - It has been acknowledged by a Supreme court investigation that voting machines can be hacked yet arguments over how that is worded publicly. No mention of any action to be taken.

Biden wanted to give 800,000 illegals voting rights despite calls of vote gerrymandering, think it is still on the agenda yet not through.

Biden's infrastructure program to repair things like dilapidated bridges is meant to add trillions to US debt and so also faces political resistance.

Ukraine, well people said that would be an issue before he was inaugurated, Trump was big on China and Biden is big on confronting Russia over Ukraine.

Israel and Iran is on the backburner neither Trump or Biden appear to have helped or stirred things up though still time if Biden decides to. 

For me, Bush was probably the worst just because of the damage he did to the world be destabilising the Middle East and creating problems for future generations to deal with - both with the instability in the region but also the spread of Salafist jihadis that have spread into Europe as well. But I think Trump runs him close, and from a personal perspective... his "maximum pressure on Iran" policy directly impacted members of my family in extremely shit ways. What the US did to Iran during the worst stages of the pandemic was horrific - it was essentially medical terrorism.

But I agree with you, Trump's presidency was the most bizarre. US politics became an absolute circus under him - and I think it's still in circus mode even with middle-of-the-road-bog-standard Biden in power. It's mental the extreme divisiveness in American politics right now.

I don't see what Biden's plan to give illegals a vote (which tbh I'd not heard of, but I think that's weird if true) has to do with calls of gerrymandering (which is when they re-draw districts for the US house of representatives to sort of guarantee states provide a certain number of representatives elected by whatever state is in power at the time... I really don't know why gerrymandering is legal, it seems like legalised election rigging to me).

Biden's infrastructure program has been facing political resistance since he proposed it. His toughest opposition comes in the form of 2 other Democrats. I don't think he will get an infrastructure program in his presidency, tbh. I think it's almost nailed on that the republicans take back the house and senate - they'll not pass anything in Biden's last 2 terms. It's a shame really because US infrastructure is absolute shit for the wealthiest nation in the world. It's not just dilapidated bridges, even things like interstate motorways are in absolute rubbish condition because the federal government hasn't funded infrastructure projects properly.

Domestically though, President's don't have as much power as people would think. They can make executive orders that impact federal agencies (like the military, department of homeland security, NASA, etc) but otherwise domestically... they're mostly just the face of an agenda that they then need to push US legislatures to enact - and I think that's been one big failing of the Biden presidency (and the Trump presidency other than his tax policy). Foreign policy though is where the President basically has all the power and that's imo the best place to judge a president. Because in the current US political climate, I think any US president trying to push domestic policy is going to have a tough time unless their parties have overwhelming control of the house & senate.

I think Biden's not changed much policy with regards to China, in all honesty. And I don't think politically he can - the "America first" agenda was unpopular domestically when it was the US spitting in the face of it's longtime allies, but very popular with regard to sticking it to China. So many of the Trump-era tariffs on China are probably there to stay for the duration of his presidency (and probably the next president's as well). But yeah, Biden very much wants to be seen as tough on Ukraine.

And the Western world's reaction to Russia's escalation of the conflict there has sort of made it a priority for all of them. So I'm not so surprised that it now appears to be the biggest thing on the Biden agenda - it's a chance for him to claim he's a president that contained Russia's expansionist goals and to have minimised a war in Europe, while standing up for the interests of longterm allies as opposed to his predecessor.

[Waylander]

This is from the one of the number of sites I periodically take a look at.

China and the US are competing for influence in Equatorial Guinea 

https://archive.vn/OoAvX#selection-807.13-807.91

Interestingly this was the state the UK mercenary leader, Simon Mann was aiming for when he was intercepted in Zimbabwe for some years ago. The country is known to be oil rich.

The article speculates the US is concerned that if China succeed they will build naval bases in the Southern Atlantic. 

[Cicero]

Don't think any president in the coming years will be a success (be it democrat or republican) until wages match the pace of the growing inflation. This presents issues in itself  with the ever increasing debt ceiling. 

No class fucked harder than the middle class. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Cicero

[OrangeKhrush]

On 18/02/2022 at 21:52, Cicero said:

Don't think any president in the coming years will be a success (be it democrat or republican) until wages match the pace of the growing inflation. This presents issues in itself  with the ever increasing debt ceiling. 

No class fucked harder than the middle class. 

the power rests in corporates that own politicians, until that is address small and medium business will never thrive

[Viva la FCB+]

God I have all the time in the world to listen to Bernie speak. This clip is just so on the nose. If you get time listen to all 3 clips for the full interview.

 

[Coma+]

I don't typically follow the politics here because it's all depressing and I don't have time for shit that brings me down.  Neither party has managed to provide a decent candidate since Obama left office and now they're both in rebuild mode.  I would argue that the Republicans haven't had a decent candidate since Romney.  Biden got the Dem backing because he was the least objectionable option and might pull some left-leaning Republicans.  Now you have a sect of the right breaking away and calling themselves pro-Trump Republicans because they just want to ride the popularity of the far right redneck regime.  It truly is a scary transitional period for this country and I've told my wife on more than one occasion now that this feels like the beginning of the end of this country.  

I have tended to vote Democrat as my party of choice (with a few exceptions) only because I feel like the Republican party is trapped in the 1700's.  They want to cling to the Constitution, word for word, and refuse to acknowledge that it was intended to be a framework for how a government should operate, not a rigid rulebook.  Our forefathers never had to contemplate mass shootings, social security, immigration, and healthcare crises.  By the same token, I feel like the far left are a bunch of fucking whiners who are offended by everything.  Every setback is blamed on the Republicans and if you're opinion differs then you must be a racist.  They have lost touch with reality.   

At this point in my life all I'm looking for from my government is security, infrastructure, and healthcare.  I don't want to be shot, I don't want to be dependent on barrels of oil, and I want to be able to go to the doctor without losing my ass in medical expenses.  The rest of it can fuck off.  

[Waylander]

On 25/02/2022 at 10:08, OrangeKhrush said:

the power rests in corporates that own politicians, until that is address small and medium business will never thrive

The US is an 'empire', the corporations provide the money for the parties on the understanding that US influence will keep expanding their reach so they can expand into new markets under US military protection and increase revenue.

Trump was an aberration as he did not buy into this and so was attacked from the off and in an unrelenting manner.

The problem for the US model is they are starting to run up against the sphere of interest of major other powers. 

The voting public is a diverse bunch and have seen many failures, banking crises, outsourcing of jobs, wars in foreign places stripping national assets and infrastructure declining.  Many also use alternative medicine so resent paying higher taxes for medicare. Then you have the radical promotion of LGBT agendas in school and of the BLM movement descendng into looting mobs with police being unable to or unwilling to intervene. .

Now the group that won't understand this side of US grievances are new immigrants as the US is likely to be better than where they have come from.

 

[OrangeKhrush]

rather well done

[Viva la FCB+]

Absolutely brilliant from one of the Republicans thats stood up to dear former leader and much like Cheney been outcasted by the party.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

14 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said:

Absolutely brilliant from one of the Republicans thats stood up to dear former leader and much like Cheney been outcasted by the party.

 

I think it's interesting Adam Kitzinger's developed something of a conscience since the coup attempt on January 6th - even stating that "he should have voted to impeach Trump over blackmailing Ukraine" which I think was obvious back then, but even more obvious now that this invasion of Ukraine has happened.

But because he was unwilling to see the obvious when it was unfolding... it does make me doubt his sincerity now tbh. It's a bit like the Putin loving Tories that now have to play to public opinion shifting against the Russians so they want to seem tough on Russia now... it just doesn't seem sincere & things like the UK's one month loophole for Oligarchs to get their money out seem to indicate they aren't really sincere.

So it makes me wonder how sincere Kitzinger is that his party's propaganda wing has gone so far off the rails. Where was this concern two or three years ago, when the party's propaganda wing was just as far off the rails? Is he only upset because they roused the rabble into demanding they hang Mike Pence? Or is he genuinely upset that they've openly embraced anti-democratic positions?

Don't get me wrong, it's good for a republican to speak out against people like Tucker Carlson (btw: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/14/kremlin-memos-russian-media-tucker-carlson-fox-news-mother-jones) - but I do question their motivations, because Fox News slide towards authoritarianism and anti-democratic messaging really isn't new in the slightest.

[Viva la FCB+]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think it's interesting Adam Kitzinger's developed something of a conscience since the coup attempt on January 6th - even stating that "he should have voted to impeach Trump over blackmailing Ukraine" which I think was obvious back then, but even more obvious now that this invasion of Ukraine has happened.

But because he was unwilling to see the obvious when it was unfolding... it does make me doubt his sincerity now tbh. It's a bit like the Putin loving Tories that now have to play to public opinion shifting against the Russians so they want to seem tough on Russia now... it just doesn't seem sincere & things like the UK's one month loophole for Oligarchs to get their money out seem to indicate they aren't really sincere.

So it makes me wonder how sincere Kitzinger is that his party's propaganda wing has gone so far off the rails. Where was this concern two or three years ago, when the party's propaganda wing was just as far off the rails? Is he only upset because they roused the rabble into demanding they hang Mike Pence? Or is he genuinely upset that they've openly embraced anti-democratic positions?

Don't get me wrong, it's good for a republican to speak out against people like Tucker Carlson (btw: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/14/kremlin-memos-russian-media-tucker-carlson-fox-news-mother-jones) - but I do question their motivations, because Fox News slide towards authoritarianism and anti-democratic messaging really isn't new in the slightest.

Youre absolutely right to question him and I still dont personally agree with his or Cheney's politics at all they are very much conservatives to the core but its kinda funny that their the propped up saviours of the republican party as we used to know it. I remember early last year sometime where Kinzinger made public a letter from his family basically denouncing him and anything to do with him over his political fight and refusal to go status quo it was absolutely mental to read. Thats probably where he won me over, it gave some insight into the thinking of these people. There is no reason especially when you mix in religion Ill dig it up if you missed it its really something. 

Cant find the full thing anymore but this basically covers it:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9264005/Kinzinger-releases-letter-family-saying-joined-devils-army-backing-Trumps-impeachment.html