American Politics Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

27 minutes ago, Waylander said:

Russia apparently looked at their food production a couple of years ago as they had decided Biden would escalate things in Ukraine either directly or covertly.

It was all over the independent media before the election, Trump meant trade war with China and Biden trouble in the Ukraine.

I was reading books  year or two ago from Waterstones covering the unreal levels of corruption in Ukraine with loads of front companies there. A lot of companies owning lots of property registered in the Caymans.

 

I don't really believe that independent media stuff because it's attributing Putin's escalation of the situation in Ukraine to Biden. The Ukraine situation appears to have been Putin believing that the US and West would simply appease Russia and allow them to hold Donbas. Let's not forget Ukraine-Russia tensions have been high since 2014 when Russia first invaded their country and annexed part of it. They've got a huge supply of grains - the vast majority of their food production goes towards grains - but they've also found issues with getting the food they're used to due to sanctions.

Russia relied on food imports for: fruit and vegetables, pork and pig fat, pig offal, cheese, milk, yogurt, cream, butter, eggs, beef, chicken, fish, "prepared food" (idk wtf this is lol), and nuts. There have been reports of supermarkets in Russia barely having any stock of various food items post-sanction... and that's not surprising. They're going to have to adjust their domestic agriculture economy to not just be primarily focused on grain exports.

The Ukraine war was Russia's gamble that the world would put global economic health ahead of the West wanting to defend it's ideals of democracy and that Russia's condemnation would be more moderated, like the international fingerwagging at the United States after the Iraq invasion.

And I don't believe Putin expected a strong and united international response to his invasion because... well the first one got some fingerwagging but nobody really did anything. And nobody really gave a shit about Russian war crimes in Syria either. He had quite a few years of things just working out for him on the international stage that it led to a serious miscalculation on his part. And I think he's seriously fucked Russia over in the process, by making them a pariah state.

It's weird too, Ukraine could not have joined NATO for a while - because of the active conflict on their borders. Even if they fully conceded Crimea to Russia, there's a period of time between a conflict before a country can join NATO. So they could not have applied. Meanwhile if his fear was Ukraine would join the EU... that's an economic pact and not a military pact - so he can't really claim that Russia was under any serious threat from that other than Ukraine would likely see itself get much richer. So by Putin invading, he's motivated Europe and NATO to want Ukraine & motivated neighboring countries to want to join NATO.

And ironically, if Putin had listened to Biden... this escalation that has fucked Russia in the arse could have been avoided. Pro-Russian types like to point to the guy who came before Zelensky being pro-Russia and how he was forced out... so it must have been the west who did it. But that ignores the domestic pressure Zelensky's predecessor faced that doesn't seem to be caused by anything other than a domestic population frustrated with a corrupt government that put Russia's interests before it's own. It wasn't an Iran situation where democracy was removed - it was a democracy deciding it's internal leadership. Russia is the one that wanted to remove the democracy.

[6666]

On 19/05/2022 at 07:31, Aladdin said:

Looooooooooooooooooool

All these politicians know they're a bunch of hypocrites that are pretending to be outraged by the Russian invasion.

[Azeem]

2 hours ago, 6666 said:

All these politicians know they're a bunch of hypocrites that are pretending to be outraged by the Russian invasion.

That might not be a slip rather an attempt at a sick joke. Next level evil

[Waylander]

17 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't really believe that independent media stuff because it's attributing Putin's escalation of the situation in Ukraine to Biden. The Ukraine situation appears to have been Putin believing that the US and West would simply appease Russia and allow them to hold Donbas. Let's not forget Ukraine-Russia tensions have been high since 2014 when Russia first invaded their country and annexed part of it. They've got a huge supply of grains - the vast majority of their food production goes towards grains - but they've also found issues with getting the food they're used to due to sanctions.

Russia relied on food imports for: fruit and vegetables, pork and pig fat, pig offal, cheese, milk, yogurt, cream, butter, eggs, beef, chicken, fish, "prepared food" (idk wtf this is lol), and nuts. There have been reports of supermarkets in Russia barely having any stock of various food items post-sanction... and that's not surprising. They're going to have to adjust their domestic agriculture economy to not just be primarily focused on grain exports.

The Ukraine war was Russia's gamble that the world would put global economic health ahead of the West wanting to defend it's ideals of democracy and that Russia's condemnation would be more moderated, like the international fingerwagging at the United States after the Iraq invasion.

And I don't believe Putin expected a strong and united international response to his invasion because... well the first one got some fingerwagging but nobody really did anything. And nobody really gave a shit about Russian war crimes in Syria either. He had quite a few years of things just working out for him on the international stage that it led to a serious miscalculation on his part. And I think he's seriously fucked Russia over in the process, by making them a pariah state.

It's weird too, Ukraine could not have joined NATO for a while - because of the active conflict on their borders. Even if they fully conceded Crimea to Russia, there's a period of time between a conflict before a country can join NATO. So they could not have applied. Meanwhile if his fear was Ukraine would join the EU... that's an economic pact and not a military pact - so he can't really claim that Russia was under any serious threat from that other than Ukraine would likely see itself get much richer. So by Putin invading, he's motivated Europe and NATO to want Ukraine & motivated neighboring countries to want to join NATO.

And ironically, if Putin had listened to Biden... this escalation that has fucked Russia in the arse could have been avoided. Pro-Russian types like to point to the guy who came before Zelensky being pro-Russia and how he was forced out... so it must have been the west who did it. But that ignores the domestic pressure Zelensky's predecessor faced that doesn't seem to be caused by anything other than a domestic population frustrated with a corrupt government that put Russia's interests before it's own. It wasn't an Iran situation where democracy was removed - it was a democracy deciding it's internal leadership. Russia is the one that wanted to remove the democracy.

We need to be careful with the current news and propaganda as this is war, all be it a cold war or proxy war. An example in WW1, Brits were told Germans were bayoneting Belgian babies. That is now known to be false.

I've always liked history and can see that the Swedes invaded Russia in the 18th C, the French in the 19th C and the Germans in the 20th C. They are never going to just trust assurances. 

To my knowledge they have made no threats to Sweden or Finland since WWII until there were suggestions of them joining NATO. They do not see NATO as friendly.

History suggests powerful countries have spheres of interest, cross these and you risk war.

I notice Oliver Stone's Ukraine documentary on youtube was removed. Now I am not saying it was the truth yet people are not allowed to view and decide for themselves. Now as we know Stone is a successful US movie director or will he now fall foul of a new era of 'McCarthyism'?

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Wouldn’t his doc be removed from YouTube for copyright violations? Unless you mean from his channel…

[Waylander]

I've only seen it from YouTube did not realise he had his own channel.

[RandoEFC+]

Not sure if this is the right thread to say so but I'm already pretty fed up of hearing about Elon Musk and his political/culture war hot takes.

[OrangeKhrush]

the democrats are so infused on identity politics and pigeon holing people that they will find out the hard way that 90% of America is not interested in progressive agenda, speech marks, unrestricted abortion, cultivating the past as a political weapon for radicalization or hocus pocus gender fluidity.

most Americans want security and preservation of the freedoms and liberties they faught for centuries ago, economic prosperity, sustainability and progression of American values.   

there was once a joke that you know someone is a pilot because they will tell you applies to LGBTQ Today, the new presser made sure to tell people that she was black, lesbian and immigrant like that is an achievement over competency which she exhibited none in her not understanding a very basic question just to tow the democrat agenda that america is systemically racist, everyone that doesn't agree with us is bad blah blah fish paste.

it is time for moderates, cons and independents to kick progressives out and get back to normality, the days of bill Clinton and Bush Jr seem like a bygone time.

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 22/05/2022 at 03:01, OrangeKhrush said:

the days of bill Clinton and Bush Jr seem like a bygone time.

Thank fuck that shithead isn't anywhere near power anymore.

But America's never going to go back to the politics of the 90s. People are so polarised and the bar for what's considered acceptable from a president has been dropped so low you'd break your back trying to limbo under it.

[Waylander]

On 22/05/2022 at 11:01, OrangeKhrush said:

the democrats are so infused on identity politics and pigeon holing people that they will find out the hard way that 90% of America is not interested in progressive agenda, speech marks, unrestricted abortion, cultivating the past as a political weapon for radicalization or hocus pocus gender fluidity.

most Americans want security and preservation of the freedoms and liberties they faught for centuries ago, economic prosperity, sustainability and progression of American values.   

there was once a joke that you know someone is a pilot because they will tell you applies to LGBTQ Today, the new presser made sure to tell people that she was black, lesbian and immigrant like that is an achievement over competency which she exhibited none in her not understanding a very basic question just to tow the democrat agenda that america is systemically racist, everyone that doesn't agree with us is bad blah blah fish paste.

it is time for moderates, cons and independents to kick progressives out and get back to normality, the days of bill Clinton and Bush Jr seem like a bygone time.

I think there is a growing problem here too with an extreme progressive streak from the Democrats in the US.

The one topic I am aware is frequently in social media and that is the topic of transgender.

The Harry Potter author Rowling and the retired swimmer Sharon Davies are vilified on social media over transgender.

Most reasonable agree that surgery for transgender should have a lower age limit and it should not be too young as some people do not always know their sexual preferences until reasonably late and surgery is rather final, there is no going back.

The problem is the transgender row has indoctrinated young adults in educational institutions that won't debate this yet will attack both on social media and psychically through spitting or shoving. It is this type of indoctrination on many issues (transgender is one) and herd mentality that will not engage in debate and so has elements of totalitarianism that is frightening and also fuelling polarisation.

 

[OrangeKhrush]

9 minutes ago, Waylander said:

I think there is a growing problem here too with an extreme progressive streak from the Democrats in the US.

The one topic I am aware is frequently in social media and that is the topic of transgender.

The Harry Potter author Rowling and the retired swimmer Sharon Davies are vilified on social media over transgender.

Most reasonable agree that surgery for transgender should have a lower age limit and it should not be too young as some people do not always know their sexual preferences until reasonably late and surgery is rather final, there is no going back.

The problem is the transgender row has indoctrinated young adults in educational institutions that won't debate this yet will attack both on social media and psychically through spitting or shoving. It is this type of indoctrination on many issues (transgender is one) and herd mentality that will not engage in debate and so has elements of totalitarianism that is frightening and also fuelling polarisation.

 

transgender is used as a means to create a new power class by villanising anyone that disagrees with gender unicorns.

 

transgender is very old, it is a male or female that takes on behavioural and in some cases anatomy changes yo be like the opposite gender.   The most common and genuine transgender is Blair white who the LGBTQ community hate because she transitioned to become like a woman in behaviour, talk and looks, she also confirms that she will always be biologically male.   

the gender unicorns try to remove biology traits from gender to create as that one democrat called itself, a mermaid queen king.   

 

by creating impossible pronouns it gives them authority to talk down on you by labelling you a biggot if you don't know or assume.  

 

 

[Waylander]

4 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

transgender is used as a means to create a new power class by villanising anyone that disagrees with gender unicorns.

 

transgender is very old, it is a male or female that takes on behavioural and in some cases anatomy changes yo be like the opposite gender.   The most common and genuine transgender is Blair white who the LGBTQ community hate because she transitioned to become like a woman in behaviour, talk and looks, she also confirms that she will always be biologically male.   

the gender unicorns try to remove biology traits from gender to create as that one democrat called itself, a mermaid queen king.   

by creating impossible pronouns it gives them authority to talk down on you by labelling you a biggot if you don't know or assume.  

Yes indeed they are trying to stifle debate, I shut someone down Facebook criticising people as NIMBYs and I said instead of using an acroynym to stifle debate how about answering some of the genuine complaints raised. That was the last we heard from them.

 

[RandoEFC+]

I've just flicked from the UK Politics thread to this one using the next unread topic button. I think that's the biggest dose of complete right-wing shite I've been exposed to for a long time and that's coming from someone who frequently sees Daily Mail front pages shared on his Twitter feed.

The trans debate is such an unbelievably fringe issue that 99% outside of people screaming (on both sides) on social media don't even know what it is, much less decide which they're going to vote based on it.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

I've just flicked from the UK Politics thread to this one using the next unread topic button. I think that's the biggest dose of complete right-wing shite I've been exposed to for a long time and that's coming from someone who frequently sees Daily Mail front pages shared on his Twitter feed.

The trans debate is such an unbelievably fringe issue that 99% outside of people screaming (on both sides) on social media don't even know what it is, much less decide which they're going to vote based on it.

trans issue is classic dead catting. 

Create a massive culture war over something that effects less than 0.5% of the population so that the voters forget the supply chain issues, the falling GDP and GBP, the fact that over 1 in 3 English children are being born into objective poverty. 

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

trans issue is classic dead catting. 

Create a massive culture war over something that effects less than 0.5% of the population so that the voters forget the supply chain issues, the falling GDP and GBP, the fact that over 1 in 3 English children are being born into objective poverty. 

American politics is only, and has only been dead cat issues for a very long time, but they aren’t very good at making it natural, everyone stills buys into it but it is so telegraphed people should be able to see it coming. They dead cat with actual issues, regardless of how inconsequential or minor. The Libs dead cat with falsehoods and brags. ‘How good is the cricket’ ‘How good are my curries’ China wants you dead’, and it is far more effective. 

[Azeem]

Since Eco is not active, can we name this thread Sleepy Joe and Yank Politics thread ?

[OrangeKhrush]

no hope, it's no wonder why they are brainwashed.

[Viva la FCB+]

Gotta love the GOP responses to the latest tragedy. Suggestions of arming teachers, creating only one entrance to schools and keeping armed police by said door and even the Texas Governer General saying laws dont matter  

Way too much money involved to ever try and change anything. So very sad. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

1 hour ago, Viva la FCB said:

Gotta love the GOP responses to the latest tragedy. Suggestions of arming teachers, creating only one entrance to schools and keeping armed police by said door and even the Texas Governer General saying laws dont matter  

Way too much money involved to ever try and change anything. So very sad. 

"So the problem we have is guns right? Too many to regulate and too many fucked in the head cunts to wield them. You might think a gun buy back, a heavy tightening of restrictions and a few adjustments to laws around being found in possession of an illegal firearm are the ticket here, but you'd be wrong. We need to put GUNS ON OUR GUNS AND INTO THE GUN HANDS OF MORE SKETCHY GUN HOLDERS SO WHEN A KID WANTS TO SHOOT UP A SCHOOL HE'S GOT TO HAVE A GUNFIGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO DO SO LETS FUCKING CHANGE THE ENTIRE FABRIC OF OUR SOCIETY TO ADRESS THIS PROBLEM WHY THE FUCK NOT"

Gun lobbyists. Every time.

"if there had been a responsible gun owner there at the time they could have killed the miscreant" 

Funny how there never is though. 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

"So the problem we have is guns right? Too many to regulate and too many fucked in the head cunts to wield them. You might think a gun buy back, a heavy tightening of restrictions and a few adjustments to laws around being found in possession of an illegal firearm are the ticket here, but you'd be wrong. We need to put GUNS ON OUR GUNS AND INTO THE GUN HANDS OF MORE SKETCHY GUN HOLDERS SO WHEN A KID WANTS TO SHOOT UP A SCHOOL HE'S GOT TO HAVE A GUNFIGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO DO SO LETS FUCKING CHANGE THE ENTIRE FABRIC OF OUR SOCIETY TO ADRESS THIS PROBLEM WHY THE FUCK NOT"

Gun lobbyists. Every time.

"if there had been a responsible gun owner there at the time they could have killed the miscreant" 

Funny how there never is though. 

Gun buy back wouldn't work. Cunts would fucking hide them like Anne Frank. You could offer these cunts a million bucks per gun and they’d still clutch onto them

[Azeem]

There aren't too many guns to regulate. Post 9/11 US law and intel agencies enforced mass surveillance over anyone sounding Muslamic, the exact extent of which is scary.

They can do that with guns too if they want. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

7 hours ago, Spike said:

Gun buy back wouldn't work. Cunts would fucking hide them like Anne Frank. You could offer these cunts a million bucks per gun and they’d still clutch onto them

There's no such thing as too many guns to regulate. 

Step 1. New laws restricting who can and can't own guns. 

Step 2. Gun buyback for those who didn't make the cut

Step 3. Cops visit everyone who didn't deregister their gun in the buy back "Excuse me sir but we have you as a former firearms owner. You no longer are allowed to own none, thus you can either give us back the gun, or you've sold it illegally and can deal with the consequences of the new laws."

Step 4. Huge fines and community service for anyone found with an unregistered (but formerly registered in their name gun) 

A couple of years down the line, anyone found with an unregistered firearm goes to jail for a couple of years. 

Done. Takes a few years, but its done. 

[CaaC (John)+]

43 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

A couple of years down the line, anyone found with an unregistered firearm goes to jail for a couple of years. 

or, shoot them in both knee caps and tell them if you are caught again with unregistered guns then, if you are a guy, we will blow your balls off and your new name will be miss forevermore, simple.  

[Waylander]

2 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

There's no such thing as too many guns to regulate. 

Step 1. New laws restricting who can and can't own guns. 

Step 2. Gun buyback for those who didn't make the cut

Step 3. Cops visit everyone who didn't deregister their gun in the buy back "Excuse me sir but we have you as a former firearms owner. You no longer are allowed to own none, thus you can either give us back the gun, or you've sold it illegally and can deal with the consequences of the new laws."

Step 4. Huge fines and community service for anyone found with an unregistered (but formerly registered in their name gun) 

A couple of years down the line, anyone found with an unregistered firearm goes to jail for a couple of years. 

Done. Takes a few years, but its done. 

Can't see it happening too many states and too many see it as political and others make too much money.

It has happened in the ANZAC area though they were never as gun militant as the US.

There was another attempt after Texas in Virginia yet the gunman was shot dead by a passing female. No charges and she does not want any publicity. Remember here a few years ago Islamic knifemen in London that sparked debate about arming all police here. That debate has died away now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61615236

[Spike]

7 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

There's no such thing as too many guns to regulate. 

Step 1. New laws restricting who can and can't own guns. 

Step 2. Gun buyback for those who didn't make the cut

Step 3. Cops visit everyone who didn't deregister their gun in the buy back "Excuse me sir but we have you as a former firearms owner. You no longer are allowed to own none, thus you can either give us back the gun, or you've sold it illegally and can deal with the consequences of the new laws."

Step 4. Huge fines and community service for anyone found with an unregistered (but formerly registered in their name gun) 

A couple of years down the line, anyone found with an unregistered firearm goes to jail for a couple of years. 

Done. Takes a few years, but its done. 

Only number one could work but only moving forward, the rest would never work. Your being naive about the US culture and their gun laws. Chicago has a 100% ban on guns and it doesn't matter how many police seize there are 10 times more unregistered guns with unknown ownership.
 

How would cops even know who to visit after a buyback? Most gun ownership is anonymous. Your practically asking for cops to engage in shootouts with civilians. Americans are literally conditioned from childhood to be distrustful of the federal government, but love the USA, they have an intense double-think of patriotism and fear and every time guns are attempted to be regulated it triggers a 1776 mentality.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Spike