American Politics Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

he may have said find me votes but that doesn't mean storm the capital lol

No but literally right before people stormed the capital he said:

"We're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them." Which is really not so subtle.

And he even pretended he'd be there with them. "I'll be there with you. We're never going to take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong."

I don't even know why they're having hearings, he should have been charged by Bill Barr right when it happened just based off that. Especially given Barr's testimony and by his own words thought that Trump was "disengaged from reality."

[OrangeKhrush]

with how things are going they may want to do a full audit,  try find those 81 million mulligans

[Viva la FCB+]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The smoking gun is the order he gave to the acting AG - "Say the election was corrupt, the Republican senators and I will take care of the rest" - that alone demonstrates intent. Then you take into account testimony from people who were in the inner circle of the Trump campaign, the numerous instances of sitting legislators aiding with the people who stormed the capital, the video footage of Trump & family while the events were unfolding, the recorded call to the Georgia Secretary of State asking that he "find the 10,000 votes" that would give Trump the win...

It should be a much bigger deal to more people that the "leaders of the free world" had an attempt to have their election results overturned where people died and there's really been little consequence.

The Jeffrey Clark drafted letter to Georgia might have been the most insane thing. If not for the rest of the DOJ and lawyers around him telling them both off things could have gone very different. The fact that the orange Orangutan was willing to fire another AG (Rosen) that just replaced Barr and replace him with Clark who has 0 experience and is literally just an Environmental Lawyer simply because he was willing to go along with the insane plot speaks volumes. 

At the end of the day what he said before the attack was damning but its the entire picture put together starting with the fabrication of the big lie. It includes grasping at any conspiracy theory straws he could find including the one that came out yesterday the Italian satelite changing votes  its utter lunacy. Its the plots to overturn the electoral counts, creating fake electoral counts and lastly trying to strong arm Mike Pence into doing something he doesnt even have the power to do which was the last ditch effort and attack on the capital. This stuff is must watch TV atm. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Roe v. Wade officially repealed today... pretty mental tbh. Thomas's rationale suggests that other rights granted by the 14th amendment are up on the chopping block next - which could be worrying for a lot of people.

Absolutely does nothing to heal the division in a really fractured political society either. It just changes law that's been settled since the 50s and guarantees that some states will go to extremes to limit abortions the way things were in the 50s.

[Danny]

Peoples views on abortion will be their own and that’s fine, but you are a backwards cunt if you purposely decide to ban abortions and force women who want or need them into back ally jobs. If a woman isn’t free to do what she wants with her own body, be that an abortion, then she simply isn’t free. Mental stuff.

[6666]

The argument against men that don't want to be forced into fatherhood is that they should've planned better, used a condom, pulled out, etc. And because they didn't, they're just gonna have to deal with being a parent. I guess that now applies to women that don't want to be forced into being a parent either.... 

[OrangeKhrush]

not sure it's that much of a big deal.  the us needs legislation to limit abortion to a certain point and only on a specialists opinion terminate beyond that point.    

[6666]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

not sure it's that much of a big deal.  the us needs legislation to limit abortion to a certain point and only on a specialists opinion terminate beyond that point.    

If states still choose to have abortion clinics then sure, it's not a big deal but some states obviously will eliminate abortion as an option and that'd be a big deal.

Edited June 24, 2022 by 6666

[Reluctant Striker]

I did read 1 line somewhere that 13 states had total bans lined up for immediate effect. Expected to be half the states very soon.

I saw 1 news crew where an Arkansas clinic was having to instantly close down. Complete with its black out of state physician & some crowing white male weirdo outside the grounds.

And as for the multiple tearful women outside the court, happy that the murders will stop. Well, I guess let's hope it's the ones celebrating that have all the problematic scenarios to deal with. They've apparently thought them all through & feel ok with it. More likely they're the type that assume some things just don't happen to nice women like them.

 

[OrangeKhrush]

40 minutes ago, 6666 said:

If states still choose to have abortion clinics then sure, it's not a big deal but some states obvious will eliminate abortion as an option and that'd be a big deal.

the state's have the right to autonomy and having read through the ruling and as a legal practitioner the ruling is correct.

it is now up to states to determine laws or a bipartisan federal law which will not happen in a nation as broken as the US.

in my country abortion is 90 days and requires a expert opinion to correspond the decision and it can only be on the basis of risk to life of the mother.   

hopeful it also changes culture in the US now.  unprotected sex, reckless intercourse should now be a genuine deterrent.  it is personal responsibility and the state should not bail out pepe that exhibit poor moral obligations.  contraception, condoms or abstain it's so easy

[Viva la FCB+]

The States is so far fucked I dont know what can repair it at this point. Just plunging deeper down the black hole. 

[Rick]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

the state's have the right to autonomy and having read through the ruling and as a legal practitioner the ruling is correct.

it is now up to states to determine laws or a bipartisan federal law which will not happen in a nation as broken as the US.

in my country abortion is 90 days and requires a expert opinion to correspond the decision and it can only be on the basis of risk to life of the mother.   

hopeful it also changes culture in the US now.  unprotected sex, reckless intercourse should now be a genuine deterrent.  it is personal responsibility and the state should not bail out pepe that exhibit poor moral obligations.  contraception, condoms or abstain it's so easy

You are insane. 
 

To suggest this is anything but an abhorrent decision really does stun me. You know damn fine that the Bible Belt states and the backward cunts in the south are going to ban it full stop. So now women have absolutely no say over their own bodies.
 

“Oh you were violently raped and are now pregnant? Too bad bitch, you should have made him wear a rubber” ……fuck these fucking cunts. Everybody who voted for this needs a bullet. 

[Dave]

It's mental to think that not long ago this is the same country that elected a black president.

The scary thing is this could only be the beginning of a pretty dark decade that sets the us back another 50+ years:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitutional-rights-00042256

The three justices Trump appointed to the Supreme Court that have effectively swayed Roe are in there 50's so they could be round another 25+ years.

[OrangeKhrush]

5 hours ago, Rick said:

You are insane. 
 

To suggest this is anything but an abhorrent decision really does stun me. You know damn fine that the Bible Belt states and the backward cunts in the south are going to ban it full stop. So now women have absolutely no say over their own bodies.
 

“Oh you were violently raped and are now pregnant? Too bad bitch, you should have made him wear a rubber” ……fuck these fucking cunts. Everybody who voted for this needs a bullet. 

america is the only country that allows late term abortion, which is an abhorrent  concept.

in most western states abortion is limited to point of heartbeat which is normally 2-3 months and on specialist recommendation, the age of stillborn means the child is born alive and gets rights including right to life.   

rape would be a justified ground for abortion as long as it is again done before the window.  rape amounts to 0.03% of abortions and abortions amount to another low percentage of conception, miscarriages make up a higher proportion  and thus it is lifestyle driven.  the other ground would be medical complication which would result in death to the mother but excludes childbirth stage as this is a minor risk even associated to mothers that do want the child and is another extreme outlier.  so maybe you should stop assuming things because you are "super sensitive".

Abortion is not banned it is just no longer forced by old precedent, states can now determine rules on up to which point and when abortion may be allowed.  New York and California allow abortion up to childbirth which is maybe the abhorrent concept you should be moaning about.

woman still have the right to choose, it's just now far shorter window, it is a monumental recognition of stillborn tight to life which ironically even Russia and China recognise.   welcome to "constitutional rights to life".  if you are still adamant on right to kill up to childbirth, maybe you are the one with a problem.

Are you going to go shoot everyone now? that fact that you want to kill people you disagree with tells me all I need to know.

[OrangeKhrush]

51 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

It's mental to think that not long ago this is the same country that elected a black president.

The scary thing is this could only be the beginning of a pretty dark decade that sets the us back another 50+ years:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitutional-rights-00042256

The three justices Trump appointed to the Supreme Court that have effectively swayed Roe are in there 50's so they could be round another 25+ years.

the over reaction is laughable, from a person that lives in England where stillborn rights exist this kind of reaction is ill based.  the bigger issue in the US is their current ruling class.  where woman are beneath transgender and actively pushed by policy.   Any black or minority that disagrees with them labelled uncle Tom's or Mexican rapists.

Abortion is not a constitutional right nor does privacy cover the scope of abortion, the blanks and grey areas can now be determined by state laws which are binding on all citizens.  without rules we live with the animals as Winston said.

is mentioned there should be relative limits up to what point or what circumstances abortion is allowed.   stillborns will now be afforded human rights like 99% of other western states.

[Tommy]

6 hours ago, Rick said:

To suggest this is anything but an abhorrent decision really does stun me.

Have you read his other posts before? 

[Stan]

45 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

miscarriages make up a higher proportion  and thus it is lifestyle driven

Such a basic way of thinking. Unsurprisingly. 

'Miscarriage = lifestyle driven' is far too generalist and stereotypical. 

[Stan]

The middle paragraph is essentially the whole argument which needs to be taken into account. 

 

 

Why does a women's right to what they choose to do with their body get taken away from them and decided by people who will NEVER experience or feel what they go through? 

For a country that claims to be progressive and free, this is some regression.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just FYI California does not allow abortion up until childbirth & anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesn’t have a clue what they’re talking about 

[OrangeKhrush]

21 minutes ago, Stan said:

Such a basic way of thinking. Unsurprisingly. 

'Miscarriage = lifestyle driven' is far too generalist and stereotypical. 

actually no you took it out of context.  miscarriage is a higher percentage of child loss, abortion is mostly not related to rape or any outlier but due to poor choices and not wanting the consequences.   

adopting a window to abort will be the best solution and it should be on medical aids not tax money.

[OrangeKhrush]

23 minutes ago, Stan said:

The middle paragraph is essentially the whole argument which needs to be taken into account. 

 

 

Why does a women's right to what they choose to do with their body get taken away from them and decided by people who will NEVER experience or feel what they go through? 

For a country that claims to be progressive and free, this is some regression.

new Zealand is extremely progressive and instead of building the 10000 houses they promised they push this.   The right to choice is fine, like choosing not to have sex is one, abortion before the point of where the entity is deemed alive is a choice but once it is living it bas the right to not be killed a fundamental human right.

the outcome just means that it cannot be assumed anymore and it is down to state legislatures to determine the laws on it.  this is hardly devastating but rather a necessary outcome.

abortions are not banned so the outrage is somewhat fun for a read.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

new Zealand is extremely progressive and instead of building the 10000 houses they promised they push this.   The right to choice is fine, like choosing not to have sex is one, abortion before the point of where the entity is deemed alive is a choice but once it is living it bas the right to not be killed a fundamental human right.

the outcome just means that it cannot be assumed anymore and it is down to state legislatures to determine the laws on it.  this is hardly devastating but rather a necessary outcome.

abortions are not banned so the outrage is somewhat fun for a read.

Are you using a religious definition of “being alive” because legally speaking you’re not legally considered alive in most countries unless you’ve actually been given birth to.

And as far as I know, no country gives post birth abortions.

Some states are set to criminalise abortion as soon as possible - leading abortion clinics to close their doors. So you can’t really pretend decision isn’t impacting shitloads of women just because nothing has happened yet.

So you’ve essentially rallied against something that never happens while tried to sweep under the rug the millions of people that are feeling the impacts of this decision as nothing to really worry about.

I think American society is too fractured to fix at this point. Probably a good time to practice saying Nihau

[OrangeKhrush]

26 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Are you using a religious definition of “being alive” because legally speaking you’re not legally considered alive in most countries unless you’ve actually been given birth to.

And as far as I know, no country gives post birth abortions.

Some states are set to criminalise abortion as soon as possible - leading abortion clinics to close their doors. So you can’t really pretend decision isn’t impacting shitloads of women just because nothing has happened yet.

So you’ve essentially rallied against something that never happens while tried to sweep under the rug the millions of people that are feeling the impacts of this decision as nothing to really worry about.

I think American society is too fractured to fix at this point. Probably a good time to practice saying Nihau

nope I use the western legal definition of born alive and still born.   your law of succession which informs all western legal system's law of succession creates rights to born alive minors to inherent if something happened to the mother.   law has recognised legal personality and rights to born alive children.   this is generally accepted as being the case after 8-12 weeks depending on which country you look at.

so yes killing a unborn after 12 weeks to me is deeply immoral and should be criminalized as a form of infanticide.   12 weeks tick tock.

[OrangeKhrush]

11 hours ago, Viva la FCB said:

The States is so far fucked I dont know what can repair it at this point. Just plunging deeper down the black hole. 

that's dramatic

[Harry]

4 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

america is the only country that allows late term abortion, which is an abhorrent  concept.

I'm pretty sure this is false. Can you provide some supporting evidence? How does the US law compare to Canada or Australia?