European Super League

[Dave]

I think the damage is done for those clubs, even if they did come back with heartfelt apologies their fans should never forget what they tried to do.

Must feel like having your partner cheat on you only to come back with flowers and chocolates asking for forgiveness.

[Smiley Culture]

18 minutes ago, Stan said:

Sadly I can't see them buckling all the way. However I think it'd be great if they say 'stay in the league but your 'prize money' for being in the league will be dispersed across the rest of the 14 other clubs who didn't choose to rip out the heart and soul from their club '. Take it or leave it! Or give them a huge points deduction like Rugby Union did to Saracens this season. Like 100+ pts each for the next few seasons so at least 3 will go down this season and then 3 the next. See how they like those apples!

There’s no way they’re being demoted, having points deducted or being voted out completely from the Premier League. Let’s not act as though the Premier League wasn’t born out of a similar power grab and that the multi billionaires of the other 14 clubs wouldn’t snap their arm off for a chance to be in this competition, permanently or invited. 

[Smiley Culture]

2 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

I think the damage is done for those clubs, even if they did come back with heartfelt apologies their fans should never forget what they tried to do.

Must feel like having your partner cheat on you only to come back with flowers and chocolates asking for forgiveness.

I put TalkSport on for five minutes this morning (yeah, I know, I turned it off after this next exchange anyway) and they were talking to Darren Bent and asking his opinion. His opinion was the generic one of “this is bad, it’s greedy etc” but then asked if he’d watch continue watching Arsenal (the team he supports) in this, his answer was along the lines of “yeah, course, they’re my team. I wouldn’t like it but it’s Arsenal”. 

I think, largely, that’s going to be the general consensus with this. People have been a bit knee jerk and I’ve seen Twitter accounts with players names in the username talking bollocks about turning their back on their team for e-likes and e-attention but I think that will make up a very small percentage of fans, who actually do walk away from their club. 

[Bluewolf]

47 minutes ago, Stan said:

Sadly I can't see them buckling all the way. However I think it'd be great if they say 'stay in the league but your 'prize money' for being in the league will be dispersed across the rest of the 14 other clubs who didn't choose to rip out the heart and soul from their club '. Take it or leave it! Or give them a huge points deduction like Rugby Union did to Saracens this season. Like 100+ pts each for the next few seasons so at least 3 will go down this season and then 3 the next. See how they like those apples!

The question for the Premier League, La Liga & Serie A is do they feel they would be able to generate enough revenue without them???

I don't doubt that if they did get banned/fuck off elsewhere that the leagues would be better off in a lot respects regards being more competitive rather than having the same 3 sides always at the top but when you lose your best players playing for the biggest clubs the financial impact will be absolutely huge... All these clubs that are living beyond their means right now or who are just keeping their heads above water are going to feel it most when the slice of the pie they used to get becomes much smaller... All those high wages being paid to players are going to become a serious burden to some of those clubs who won't have the ability to generate the same kind of cash from matchday sales or merchandise/advertising or even sponsors etc... 

If they did stay I reckon we could see a 'B team' type scenario developing in the league while the 'A team' follows the cash cow... Focus on the money and anything else is a secondary concern or bonus.

Would existing fans of say Man United/City, Liverpool want to pay good money to watch the second team each weekend??? Would clubs like Everton, Leicester Leeds for example feel satisfied winning the league if it meant they beat a lot of B Teams to get there?? I wouldn't personally.. I am pretty sure that as a Leicester fan your title winning season against the odds will probably stay with you a for a long time because you played against the best there was in the league and you proved to be the better team.. The satisfaction of winning like that would be gone.. 

[Rick]

4 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I think, largely, that’s going to be the general consensus with this. People have been a bit knee jerk and I’ve seen Twitter accounts with players names in the username talking bollocks about turning their back on their team for e-likes and e-attention but I think that will make up a very small percentage of fans, who actually do walk away from their club. 

Yeah, I will admit that I probably follow this  way of thinking. I’ve said a lot of things in the heat of the moment, a lot about binning Liverpool off for some other side of this were to go through, but really I know I won’t do that. I was thinking about it all last night and I just can’t fathom supporting any other club that isn’t my club. 
 

This decision isn’t being made by any real football people at the club. The majority (if not all) of the staff and players at the club will be against it, but unfortunately the ones with power are the decision makers. Football has gotten more and more disconnected over the years, but Liverpool always felt a little bit different. The fans didn’t stand for some of the previous bullshit that these owners tried, they made them change their ways. This is a new level of disrespect towards us, and shows absolutely that the owners have no care for the traditions of this great game. 
 

Now it’s easy to say “fuck these lot, I’m disgusted with my club” and I’ve said it myself in the last couple of days, but it’s not the club, it’s the people who are currently in charge of it. They don’t own Liverpool FC, they are simply taking care of it. They know nothing of what it means to be a part of this club as a fan or as a player/ manager. I was watching the kick off podcast last night, and these were the words of Rory on there. And yeah, it’s probably a stupid and overly romantic way to look at it, but what can I say. I’m an emotional guy, and as much as I’d like to have it in me to walk away from bullshit ruining the sport I love, I just can’t. If this goes ahead, I’ll still end up watching it because it’s my club. All I can hope is that is doesn’t. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Dock them all 10 points, fine them all a couple mil. 

[Whiskey]

6 minutes ago, Rick said:

Yeah, I will admit that I probably follow this  way of thinking. I’ve said a lot of things in the heat of the moment, a lot about binning Liverpool off for some other side of this were to go through, but really I know I won’t do that. I was thinking about it all last night and I just can’t fathom supporting any other club that isn’t my club. 
 

This decision isn’t being made by any real football people at the club. The majority (if not all) of the staff and players at the club will be against it, but unfortunately the ones with power are the decision makers. Football has gotten more and more disconnected over the years, but Liverpool always felt a little bit different. The fans didn’t stand for some of the previous bullshit that these owners tried, they made them change their ways. This is a new level of disrespect towards us, and shows absolutely that the owners have no care for the traditions of this great game. 
 

Now it’s easy to say “fuck these lot, I’m disgusted with my club” and I’ve said it myself in the last couple of days, but it’s not the club, it’s the people who are currently in charge of it. They don’t own Liverpool FC, they are simply taking care of it. They know nothing of what it means to be a part of this club as a fan or as a player/ manager. I was watching the kick off podcast last night, and these were the words of Rory on there. And yeah, it’s probably a stupid and overly romantic way to look at it, but what can I say. I’m an emotional guy, and as much as I’d like to have it in me to walk away from bullshit ruining the sport I love, I just can’t. If this goes ahead, I’ll still end up watching it because it’s my club. All I can hope is that is doesn’t. 

This is part of the problem - being outraged one minute to go with the crowd but secretly being all for it behind closed doors. 

If you continue to follow Liverpool FC and the Super League then you are no better than the owners that started this.

[Rick]

2 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

This is part of the problem - being outraged one minute to go with the crowd but secretly being all for it behind closed doors. 

If you continue to follow Liverpool FC and the Super League then you are no better than the owners that started this.

What are you on about? I’m still outraged, I still do not want this shite to happen and hope that it gets fucked off. “Secretly being for it” what an idiot you are. 
 

Very easy to get on your high horse about me following my club when yours isn’t involved in the shit show. Not as easy as that just to bin them off after supporting them for 30 years of my life. 

[Whiskey]

1 minute ago, Rick said:

What are you on about? I’m still outraged, I still do not want this shite to happen and hope that it gets fucked off. Very easy to get on your high horse about me following my club when yours in any involved in the shit show. Not as easy as that just to bin them off after supporting them for 30 years of my life. 

It's very easy to make a stand against the killing of football, but people like yourself will lap it up anyway. Like I said, you are just as bad as the owners if you just ignore what has happened and follow Liverpool anyway - you're the cash cows that these owners laugh about behind closed doors.

[Stan]

 

 

[Whiskey]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

 

 

If anyone wonders why I love my club, it's statements like that. 

[Rick]

1 minute ago, Whiskey said:

It's very easy to make a stand against the killing of football, but people like yourself will lap it up anyway. Like I said, you are just as bad as the owners if you just ignore what has happened and follow Liverpool anyway - you're the cash cows that these owners laugh about behind closed doors.

It’s very easy to make a stand when your club isn’t involved and it won’t affect your life in any way. Liverpool have been with me all my life, it’s very difficult to say I’ll be throwing all that away for a decision that some disconnected owner has made. Who even knows, the passion for it all may never be the name and I could naturally just stray further from it, I can’t say right now. However, if they were to league the domestic league then I absolutely would walk away. 
 

For the record, I think this idea will falter. I think the next few weeks and months are going to test the resolve of all clubs involved and I think some will buckle, and once that happens I think the tower will fall. I think the bank that is backing it will pull away once their investment starts to look fractured. 

[Whiskey]

Just now, Rick said:

It’s very easy to make a stand when your club isn’t involved and it won’t affect your life in any way.

Of course it will you deluded idiot - the Premier League will basically become the Carabao Cup and this decision (if it goes ahead) will kill football. The football world is united, so snide comments and tribalism really isn't what is needed here. Nor is your acceptance that despite FSG killing your club and others around them you'd still follow their every word, because, y'know 30 years #YNWA.

The fact that you will continue to follow Liverpool in this disgrace and probably forgive them if it doesn't go ahead speaks volumes about your respect and values of the game.

[DeadLinesman]

1 hour ago, Smiley Culture said:

I put TalkSport on for five minutes this morning (yeah, I know, I turned it off after this next exchange anyway) and they were talking to Darren Bent and asking his opinion. His opinion was the generic one of “this is bad, it’s greedy etc” but then asked if he’d watch continue watching Arsenal (the team he supports) in this, his answer was along the lines of “yeah, course, they’re my team. I wouldn’t like it but it’s Arsenal”. 

I think, largely, that’s going to be the general consensus with this. People have been a bit knee jerk and I’ve seen Twitter accounts with players names in the username talking bollocks about turning their back on their team for e-likes and e-attention but I think that will make up a very small percentage of fans, who actually do walk away from their club. 

I’d like to think I’ll walk away. It’ll be difficult. Horrendous. United are all I’ve known since I’ve been 4 years old and taken to my first game. However, I’ve found myself less interested as I’ve grown up. I’ve been fortunate to be a kid and a young adult growing up with ultimate success. United’s ‘decline’ has coincided with me becoming a ‘proper adult’, having kids and far more responsibility at both home and work. Is it an easy way out for me? Absolutely. The period has coincided with Warrington becoming fairly successful at domestic level in RL winning a few Challenge Cups, the leaders shield etc and I’ve lost all interest in that as well so I’m not sure it is solely a glory thing for me.

Either way, I think I’m going to be taking a few trips to Warrington Town more often with the kids. I genuinely hope so anyway.

[RandoEFC+]

Even just the mismanagement and the jumping on the bandwagon of selling out to overseas owners has dented my relationship with Everton. It no longer feels like an unconditional affection. I can see a situation where I no longer take a massive interest in the club if we did something like this, I'd stop making the effort to watch all of our games, and luckily for me a new local football team has been formed on the Isle of Man for the first time ever so I have a local alternative where I could actually go and watch every week. I don't agree with the stance that you have to be 'finished' with your club if this goes ahead. I do think I'd pretty much disown Everton if they did this but it's impossible to know for sure until you're put in the situation.

Statements like the one above are why I remain proud of my club. It isn't perfect and we've very much started that process of selling fragments of our soul to remain competitive. I accept that people will hit back and say that if our owner was offered the same opportunity he'd have done what the rest of them have done. I'm not sure, the cynic in you says yeah, they probably would. The fact of the matter is nobody knows.

One thing I disagree with above all else is (real) football fans having a pop at each other over it. We're all under attack here.

[Rick]

11 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Of course it will you deluded idiot - the Premier League will basically become the Carabao Cup and this decision (if it goes ahead) will kill football. The football world is united, so snide comments and tribalism really isn't what is needed here. Nor is your acceptance that despite FSG killing your club and others around them you'd still follow their every word, because, y'know 30 years #YNWA.

The fact that you will continue to follow Liverpool in this disgrace and probably forgive them if it doesn't go ahead speaks volumes about your respect and values of the game.

This is all still very early after the announcements. I’m speaking purely with my red tinted glasses on here. Imagine Everton doing this, I don’t think you would be abandoning them 2 days down the line without seeing how it all plays out. 
 

I agree with you about FSG, they are trying their best to kill off football as we know it, but me being a Liverpool fan doesn’t make me an FSG fan. Liverpool were here well before these cunts, and will be here well after. Do you expect every football fan to abandon their clubs just because their owners are horrible bastards? That’s a very basic and naive way to look at it. Again, you can call me this and that and say I agree with the decision all you want. It’s very easy when your club isn’t involved in it. You don’t have to live with the idea that your owners are trying to rip the soul out of the game so you saying “you agree with the decision and support it” or “you’re as bad as them” means absolutely nothing to me mate, as you can’t fathom what it’s like to be in this situation all us fans of these clubs find ourselves in. 
 

My hope is that this goes away and that the owners of each of these clubs run back to the fans with their tails beween their legs. That isn’t enough, an apology wouldn’t be enough, no fan will ever respect the owners that made these decision but we will continue to support OUR CLUBS. When I think of Liverpool I think of my friends, my family, the players the manager, the staff who have been there for years. I don’t think of the temporary American owners who are only here because it’s a good investment on paper. 

[Stan]

18 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

The fact that you will continue to follow Liverpool in this disgrace and probably forgive them if it doesn't go ahead speaks volumes about your respect and values of the game.

This is the thing. 

Not to be personal to anyone on here, but the owners of these 12 clubs just do not give one fuck about any fan, whether that fan follows the club or stops following it from now on. You are just a number to them. The more support - regardless of circumstance - they get they will see it as a win. 

 

The difference between the owners that have taken their club away from the community (the 'SuperCunty Six') and owners who understand they have a business running a club but also what their club is about and what it means for that community is staggering. When you look at the Everton's CEO message and statement from the club they understand what their club means to the fans. And I pray to god I see the same from our CEO (Susan Whelan) and chairman Top. There's been several other statements from other clubs across the PL and EFL too - it's not done because they've not been invited and feel like they've missed out. It's got fuck all to do with jealousy. They speak because they understand. They have the connection with the fans. They respect the history of their club and perhaps what it's been through decades ago, through generations. They are not willing to discard that for money and a closed shop. They can feel the fans wrath and anger at what happened on Sunday night and more to the point, how these clubs have gone behind the backs of others for months no doubt to breakaway because the rest of us seemingly aren't enough for them. 

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, Rick said:

My hope is that this goes away and that the owners of each of these clubs run back to the fans with their tails beween their legs. That isn’t enough, an apology wouldn’t be enough, no fan will ever respect the owners that made these decision but we will continue to support OUR CLUBS. When I think of Liverpool I think of my friends, my family, the players the manager, the staff who have been there for years. I don’t think of the temporary American owners who are only here because it’s a good investment on paper. 

This has to be the case if any of the clubs do come crawling back. What they did and who they are can and must never be forgotten. It's partly why I didn't quite get the abuse from Liverpool & Leeds fans towards players & managers as they arrived at Elland Road. It was just convenient for them they had someone/something to vent their anger towards. But the real 'abuse' or vitriol has to be towards the owners for as long as they are at these clubs. 

[CaaC (John)+]

I will always support United but not leeches like the Glazers and Woodward, I would love the day (please dear God) that them bastards leave the club forever but I can't see it happening, I just hope this stupid idea goes down the pan and the likes of Perez, Glazer and co get a shit load of horse manure tipped all over them.

 

[Dave]

43 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I put TalkSport on for five minutes this morning (yeah, I know, I turned it off after this next exchange anyway) and they were talking to Darren Bent and asking his opinion. His opinion was the generic one of “this is bad, it’s greedy etc” but then asked if he’d watch continue watching Arsenal (the team he supports) in this, his answer was along the lines of “yeah, course, they’re my team. I wouldn’t like it but it’s Arsenal”. 

I think, largely, that’s going to be the general consensus with this. People have been a bit knee jerk and I’ve seen Twitter accounts with players names in the username talking bollocks about turning their back on their team for e-likes and e-attention but I think that will make up a very small percentage of fans, who actually do walk away from their club. 

I guess everybody's positions are going to be slightly different. A bit annoying to hear somebody on national radio admit they'll cave in and no doubt talk about it with enthusiasm in a couple of years time but each to their own.

I know of Chelsea, Man United and Liverpool fans whose interest has dwindled in recent years and a transition to watching a Crawley or an AFC Wimbledon wouldn't be difficult. It wouldn't be the same for them but they'll still follow a team whilst having an eye on the super league.

At the same time, I also know Chelsea fans who go to as many games as possible and they're Chelsea fans before being football fans. I can see them being super league fans because a transition to another English side under any circumstance is unthinkable.

There's also people like my Dad, who used to go Highbury all the time, that will just fall out of football all together. Its not been the sport he grew up watching for some time, he's seen changes at Arsenal for years that's caused him not to care any more and this will be the final nail in the coffin. He would be happy if Arsenal did well but he wouldn't go out his way to watch any of it. The teams he enjoyed watching with Smith, Wright, Henry etc is not there any more. Same colours and name but different team.

 

[Whiskey]

''The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.''

[Rick]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

This is the thing. 

Not to be personal to anyone on here, but the owners of these 12 clubs just do not give one fuck about any fan, whether that fan follows the club or stops following it from now on. You are just a number to them. The more support - regardless of circumstance - they get they will see it as a win. 

 

The difference between the owners that have taken their club away from the community (the 'SuperCunty Six' and owners who understand they have a business running a club but also what their club is about and what it means for that community is staggering. When you look at the Everton's CEO message and statement from the club they understand what their club means to the fans. And I pray to god I see the same from our CEO (Susan Whelan) and chairman Top. There's been several other statements from other clubs across the PL and EFL too - it's not done because they've not been invited and feel like they've missed out. They speak because they understand. They have the connection with the fans. They respect the history of their club and perhaps what it's been through decades ago, through generations. They are not willing to discard that for money. They can feel the fans wrath and anger at what happened on Sunday night and more to the point, how these clubs have gone behind the backs of others for months no doubt to breakaway because the rest of us seemingly aren't enough for them. 

I mean, this is all ifs and buts. We won’t really ever know if what you’re saying is true unless those clubs rejected an invite like Bayern, Dortmund & Porto. 
 

I’m glad clubs like Everton are putting out statements like this, it helps the cause. But let’s not act like there aren’t plenty more owners in England and other leagues who wouldn’t have jumped at the opportunity to be involved in this ESL shite. 

[Rick]

8 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

I guess everybody's positions are going to be slightly different. A bit annoying to hear somebody on national radio admit they'll cave in and no doubt talk about it with enthusiasm in a couple of years time but each to their own.

I know of Chelsea, Man United and Liverpool fans whose interest has dwindled in recent years and a transition to watching a Crawley or an AFC Wimbledon wouldn't be difficult. It wouldn't be the same for them but they'll still follow a team whilst having an eye on the super league.

At the same time, I also know Chelsea fans who go to as many games as possible and they're Chelsea fans before being football fans. I can see them being super league fans because a transition to another English side under any circumstance is unthinkable.

There's also people like my Dad, who used to go Highbury all the time, that will just fall out of football all together. Its not been the sport he grew up watching for some time, he's seen changes at Arsenal for years that's caused him not to care any more and this will be the final nail in the coffin. He would be happy if Arsenal did well but he wouldn't go out his way to watch any of it. The teams he enjoyed watching with Smith, Wright, Henry etc is not there any more. Same colours and name but different team.

 

I think that naturally my interest has dwindled as I got older and real life started getting in the way. I haven’t been to Anfield since Suarez was here, so I think that probably speaks volumes about how high on my priorities that Liverpool are. That’s not saying I don’t love the club, I do. 

I think I need to see what happens here before really making my decision either way. I can’t see it where I completely abandon the club, but maybe that’s just me being naive myself. If this goes through, and the domestic football side becomes a shit show as well, I think the last bit of passion would be gone.
 

But I can’t speak on that until it happens because right now this is nothing but an announcement by a load of fat greedy cunts, there’s no saying it will go through. We will just have to see how it plays out. 

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Rick said:

I mean, this is all ifs and buts. We won’t really ever know if what you’re saying is true unless those clubs rejected an invite like Bayern, Dortmund & Porto. 
 

I’m glad clubs like Everton are putting out statements like this, it helps the cause. But let’s not act like there aren’t plenty more owners in England and other leagues who wouldn’t have jumped at the opportunity to be involved in this ESL shite. 

This is whataboutism. It in itself damages the cause. You're defending your owners indirectly and unintentionally by claiming that they aren't worse than anybody else's. We can't afford to give them an inch in this. You need to keep your eye on the distinction between your club and your club's owners because everyone is trying to defend the first and lament the second. 

I think it's perfectly understandable that the affinity to Klopp and this time may keep you interested to an extent. It'll be interesting to see how your feelings would then develop as the current generation slowly make their way out of the club and are replaced by the next lot that have no links to the Liverpool you knew.

[Stan]

Also @Rick they see you as a 'legacy fan' now by the way. Not a fan of the future. That should probably tell you a lot about their attitude and approach...