Liverpool 0-0 Man Utd - Sunday 17th January, 2021

[LFCMadLad]

19 minutes ago, Stan said:

Is it not about getting better depth in, though? I don't think anyone is asking for a world-class, elite-level CB to play now and then get unhappy later. More getting better back-up because there's no guarantee that 1) Van Dijk comes back the same player and 2) any of them (especially Matip) stay fit regularly and you're definitely going to need better back-up when games continue to be cramped in such a short time. 

It also allows Fabinho and Henderson to play in their proper positions and compliment the team/set-up better...

Of course, strong depth is always good but again, who will sell us a decent CB without totally rinsing us knowing we are desperate? 

We all know that using Hendo and Fab is harming us in midfield more than defence but we aren't just going to go out and buy an average CB at an inflated price and we certainly aren't in a position to go out and buy a top class CB.

Again, if it was as easy as some think we would have done it already.

[Burning Gold]

16 minutes ago, Rick said:

Why are we assuming that if this new player comes in and plays a blinder for 5 months, he is still going to be dropped as soon as Gomez is fit? Gomez was struggling before his injury and he shouldn’t walk straight into the first 11 if we have somebody performing well there. Van Dijk goes straight back in but I think any player coming in would have to fancy their chances against Matip and Gomez. 

Every season it feels like we see  a player go to a big team that everyone knows objectively they won't get games for, but footballers back themselves to earn a place because that's what got them where they are. I rate Gomez so highly, but he hasn't been great this season and he's just suffered a third (!) long term injury. Who knows if he comes back the same player? How long until he gets injured again? Any reasonably competent defender should see this as a big opportunity to cement their place at a top club.

[Burning Gold]

41 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Fair points and it's these risks that those making the decisions will have to weigh up. It's going to come down to what is reasonable financially for someone who isn't going to be a long term solution.

What sort of centre back would be acceptable to you?

Because we're in such a weak position, there are a lot of options in terms of profile.

We're rumoured to be in for Upamecano in the summer. Ideal world, we go and get him early. I accept that may not be realistic for a number of reasons, but maybe another long term solution brought in early for a premium. Maybe we loan a developing player like Tomori or Militao. Not ideal to develop a player for another team, but it directly benefits us as well and you get rid of the "next season" problem. I don't actually think it's a problem though; because of Matip and Gomez's fitness issues, no player should be concerned about being frozen out next season. Sokratis? Long story short I'm not fussy 

[LFCMike]

7 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

Because we're in such a weak position, there are a lot of options in terms of profile.

We're rumoured to be in for Upamecano in the summer. Ideal world, we go and get him early. I accept that may not be realistic for a number of reasons, but maybe another long term solution brought in early for a premium. Maybe we loan a developing player like Tomori or Militao. Not ideal to develop a player for another team, but it directly benefits us as well. I don't even think a backup type is out of the question. With Matip and Gomez's fitness issues, they shouldn't be concerned about being frozen out next season. Sokratis? Long story short I'm not fussy 

I think any long term solution is extremely difficult and unrealistic this month. 

Not sure settling for someone who's started once in nearly a year for this Arsenal side is the way to go either

[Rick]

4 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I think any long term solution is extremely difficult and unrealistic this month. 

Not sure settling for someone who's started once in nearly a year for this Arsenal side is the way to go either

But surely a natural, experienced defender is better than having Henderson back there? Sokratis may not have pulled up any trees at Arsenal, but he played 130 games for Dortmund, so he’s no donkey. 

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, Rick said:

But surely a natural, experienced defender is better than having Henderson back there? Sokratis may not have pulled up any trees at Arsenal, but he played 130 games for Dortmund, so he’s no donkey. 

He's not played at all this season and has played 2 minutes since his last start for Arsenal at the start of July. Some of you are saying you won't accept just anyone, but clearly you would

[Rick]

1 minute ago, LFCMike said:

He's not played at all this season and has played 2 minutes since his last start for Arsenal at the start of July. Some of you are saying you won't accept just anyone, but clearly you would

At this point I would take anybody that’s going to be an improvement on Williams & Phillips. 
 

It’s not like we are scoping out league two defenders though, is it? If we bring anybody in, it’ll be somebody decent. 

[LFCMike]

1 minute ago, Rick said:

At this point I would take anybody that’s going to be an improvement on Williams & Phillips. 
 

It’s not like we are scoping out league two defenders though, is it? If we bring anybody in, it’ll be somebody decent. 

It's not always that simple though. Remember Pellegrino signing under Benitez? He came from Valencia and he was absolutely shite at that stage of his career.

Can a fella who's nearly 33 and barely played in 12 months play how we'd want him to and be worth the wage you'd be paying him?

[Rick]

1 minute ago, LFCMike said:

It's not always that simple though. Remember Pellegrino signing under Benitez? He came from Valencia and he was absolutely shite at that stage of his career.

Can a fella who's nearly 33 and barely played in 12 months play how we'd want him to and be worth the wage you'd be paying him?

If it means bringing Henderson and/or Fabinho back into midfield, thus improving the team dynamic I’d say it’s worth the risk. 

[LFCMike]

4 minutes ago, Rick said:

If it means bringing Henderson and/or Fabinho back into midfield, thus improving the team dynamic I’d say it’s worth the risk. 

The other day you were saying it was unfair to bring up Mustafi as an example as to how far down the league you'd go for a CB, now you're happy with a fella who's played far less than him in the last 12 months 

[Danny]

35 minutes ago, Rick said:

But surely a natural, experienced defender is better than having Henderson back there? Sokratis may not have pulled up any trees at Arsenal, but he played 130 games for Dortmund, so he’s no donkey. 

He is a bit of a donkey

[Burning Gold]

To be fair, Sokratis would be far from my first choice. He's an extreme example of someone I'd accept (because he'd already been mentioned). In reality if we did get him I'd be pretty disappointed we weren't able to get someone better, but I maintain he'd be an upgrade our current options

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Fuck boys, I'd have some trepidation bringing back Sokratis, and we're 12th. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

He was a great tackler and a good athlete, very fast and mobile.  His injury's would have slowed him down, taking away one of his best weapons. Reads the game average, isn't too tall or strong, injury prone, and throws himself in aggressively. In his mid 30s and injury prone Liverpool would be mad to grab him. Let him go back to Greece, Italy or Turkey or some shit. 

[LFCMadLad]

I'm just absolutely over the moon that some of you have absolutely no involvement in our transfer business 

[Burning Gold]

20 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

He was a great tackler and a good athlete, very fast and mobile.  His injury's would have slowed him down, taking away one of his best weapons. Reads the game average, isn't too tall or strong, injury prone, and throws himself in aggressively. In his mid 30s and injury prone Liverpool would be mad to grab him. Let him go back to Greece, Italy or Turkey or some shit. 

You understand we're comparing him to Nat Phillips and Rhys Williams here?

[Rick]

50 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I'm just absolutely over the moon that some of you have absolutely no involvement in our transfer business 

So just confirm with me that you think Reece Williams & Nat Phillips are better defenders than Sokratis?
 

If so, I echo your own reply back to you. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

So what do we do with this new player when VVD, Gomez and Matip are fit? How do we pursued a club to sell us a decent CB half way through a season without paying way over the odds? How do we pursued a player to come here knowing that he ain't playing in 3 or 4 months time? How do we get a decent CB for a decent price when everyone and his dog knows we are desperate? Moneynis tight for everyone at the moment, we ain't paying over the odds for a player that we won't even need in a few months. 

Come on lads fucking hell, if it was as simple as some of you suggest, don't you think we would have done it already?

I imagine in the summer we’d sell Matip if the new CB is decent and fills in well - having a 3rd choice CB that’s very injury prone isn’t really great if you’ve got an injury crisis at the back. Source: this season

[LFCMike]

9 hours ago, Rick said:

So just confirm with me that you think Reece Williams & Nat Phillips are better defenders than Sokratis?
 

If so, I echo your own reply back to you. 

I would question whether he'd solve any issues

[MUFC]

If you need CB's, we have Jones and Rojo for free. 

[Harry]

12 hours ago, Rick said:

Why are we assuming that if this new player comes in and plays a blinder for 5 months, he is still going to be dropped as soon as Gomez is fit? Gomez was struggling before his injury and he shouldn’t walk straight into the first 11 if we have somebody performing well there. Van Dijk goes straight back in but I think any player coming in would have to fancy their chances against Matip and Gomez. 

I pretty much agree. My logic as follows

We let Lovren go last year.

Gomez and Matip combined provide less reliability of occupying one CB slot than VVD.

We want Fabinho to play in midfield.

VVD may not get back to his previous dominance, or may go through a couple of years of lower reliability than before. 

I think that warrants a willingness to be in the market looking for a stop gap option OR something more long term depending on what's available. 

 

 

 

[LFCMike]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

I pretty much agree. My logic as follows

We let Lovren go last year.

Gomez and Matip combined provide less reliability of occupying one CB slot than VVD.

We want Fabinho to play in midfield.

VVD may not get back to his previous dominance, or may go through a couple of years of lower reliability than before. 

I think that warrants a willingness to be in the market looking for a stop gap option OR something more long term depending on what's available. 

 

 

 

In the summer, we need to be signing someone who will be first choice alongside VVD next season and the other two can be third and fourth choice. I'd have no issue with Matip sticking around and getting 15-20 games as Lovren did as fourth choice the two previous seasons. 

[LFCMadLad]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I imagine in the summer we’d sell Matip if the new CB is decent and fills in well - having a 3rd choice CB that’s very injury prone isn’t really great if you’ve got an injury crisis at the back. Source: this season

And that's assuming Klopp would want to sell Matip. It's also assuming we'd be able to sell Matip who has just signed a new contract with us. 

This is exactly what I mean when I say things like.. "Klopp & Edwards know what they are doing". Its not to put anybody down, it's simply because they are privvy to so much more information than us that it's silly to just type out what we should be doing every time we drop points.

I mean, for all we know we might have a top class CB lined up for the summer which can not be completed until this season has ended? We all know that when Klopp has a target he very rarely deviates from that said target, even if it means he has to wait.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

And that's assuming Klopp would want to sell Matip. It's also assuming we'd be able to sell Matip who has just signed a new contract with us. 

This is exactly what I mean when I say things like.. "Klopp & Edwards know what they are doing". Its not to put anybody down, it's simply because they are privvy to so much more information than us that it's silly to just type out what we should be doing every time we drop points.

I mean, for all we know we might have a top class CB lined up for the summer which can not be completed until this season has ended? We all know that when Klopp has a target he very rarely deviates from that said target, even if it means he has to wait.

 

I mean you can say they know what they’re doing as many times as you want...

but literally shitloads of people said “having only 3 CBs, especially 2 injury prone ones might leave us light at the back. Imagine if Virgil gets an injury.”

And then we played those horrible cunts Everton and imo they literally ruined our season. I wish nothing but the absolute worst to Pickford tbh, hope his mum gets punched in the face

[Mel81x+]

After seeing us draw with United yesterday you really do have to wonder how Klopp is going to solve this defensive issue other than hoping players come back sooner than expected. I cant see the club moving on Sokratis even if he does bring the factor of being an actual defender vs the makeshift system we're running with now. 

As for the match it was really the same thing we've been watching unfold for the last few games and nothing has truly changed. I thought Curtis needed to come on a bit earlier and Shaq starting surprised me but he really did quite well. If we don't find some attacking form soon it wont matter if we bring in a defender or get more defenders back from injury because it seems like new problems are emerging and I don't think they are all related to our defensive troubles.