Eco Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Yeah and I don’t think that equaliser looks that great from him. A penalty save doesn’t really change that. Tbh he’s easily England’s worst player of the tournament… because most England players didn’t put a foot wrong all tournament, whereas he’s the only one who made serious mistakes (other than Southgate putting on those lads to take penalties) in trying to get knocked out to Denmark and gifting away our lead in the final. The worst thing I saw from Pickford is maybe...2 bad throws against Denmark. I commented on him looking shaky at times, but when it came down to it, we have pretty solid, took control when needed, and literally led the best defense we saw all tournament.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 12, 2021 Subscriber Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, Dr. Gonzo said: Nah I don’t think it’s a wind up, I don’t think he deserves serious praise. I also cannot get over Southgate’s penalty selections. What an absolute fucking moron and honestly what a bad man manager just throwing Saka to the wolves like that. He’s never going to forget missing that penalty for the rest of his life. It blows my mind that the best England manager of my lifetime is very clearly Gareth Southgate. But he’s also probably the least qualified for the job and the worst manager on paper that we’ve had in the national team. Weird stuff. Can’t believe we made a final. Can’t believe we took the lead so early either. It all feels like it was so close. Just a bridge too far though. If conceding 2 goals in 7 games and stepping up and saving two penalties in the shootout in England's biggest moment in double his lifetime isn't good enough, I don't know what is. He had a shaky performance in the semi-finals, that's all some people need to sharpen the knives and try and establish the narrative they've decided upon before the tournament. Imagine if Kane with his cardboard cutout performances in the Group Stage was held to the same standard. Nobody ever is though apart from the goalkeeper. Bizarre. Still, "doesn't deserve serious praise" is already quite a row back from "easily the worst player at the tournament" so I can see that you know really that it isn't a credible position.
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, RandoEFC said: If conceding 2 goals in 7 games and stepping up and saving two penalties in the shootout in England's biggest moment in double his lifetime isn't good enough, I don't know what is. He had a shaky performance in the semi-finals, that's all some people need to sharpen the knives and try and establish the narrative they've decided upon before the tournament. Imagine if Kane with his cardboard cutout performances in the Group Stage was held to the same standard. Nobody ever is though apart from the goalkeeper. Bizarre. Still, "doesn't deserve serious praise" is already quite a row back from "easily the worst player at the tournament" so I can see that you know really that it isn't a credible position. Fuck off with that last paragraph that’s hugely twisting my words he’s obviously not the worst player at the tournament, he’s not Turkish. But I don’t think he’s up there with the best performers from England despite the goals conceded record (England being quite defense plays a much bigger part in that too). Especially when a goalkeeper thats got proportional arm to torso ratio probably saves those 2 goals
Eco Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: If conceding 2 goals in 7 games and stepping up and saving two penalties in the shootout in England's biggest moment in double his lifetime isn't good enough, I don't know what is. He had a shaky performance in the semi-finals, that's all some people need to sharpen the knives and try and establish the narrative they've decided upon before the tournament. Imagine if Kane with his cardboard cutout performances in the Group Stage was held to the same standard. Nobody ever is though apart from the goalkeeper. Bizarre. Still, "doesn't deserve serious praise" is already quite a row back from "easily the worst player at the tournament" so I can see that you know really that it isn't a credible position. This - last night we saw the two best defenses in the tournament go at it. Pickford was most certainly NOT the problem last night.
Administrator Stan Posted July 12, 2021 Author Administrator Posted July 12, 2021 Should Kane have spoken up like this?
Eco Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stan said: Should Kane have spoken up like this? I absolutely love Ronaldo. And yes, I think a player with that kind of personality would have been helpful last night. Him saying, 'if we lose, so be it' gives me goosebumps.
Administrator Stan Posted July 12, 2021 Author Administrator Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, Eco said: I absolutely love Ronaldo. And yes, I think a player with that kind of personality would have been helpful last night. I don't like him so much but I can respect his leadership in a moment like that.
Smiley Culture Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Stan said: Should Kane have spoken up like this? Given we don’t know the circumstances of any of it, who knows? Did we want Kyle Walker taking a penalty instead of say Jadon Sancho purely because he’s been around longer?
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stan said: Should Kane have spoken up like this? Yes. For all the talk of our “elders tribesmen” of the squad, it’s weird that the last 3 of our penalties went to younger members of the squad and definitely what you’d call the big characters or leaders of the squad.
Eco Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Smiley Culture said: Given we don’t know the circumstances of any of it, who knows? Did we want Kyle Walker taking a penalty instead of say Jadon Sancho purely because he’s been around longer? I think it's more than just being a senior leader. I've played sports where we had a strong leader who out worked everyone and had everyone's respect, and when he spoke about what we needed to do, people listened. He spoke and you'd feel a sense of a relief to a point. Ronaldo saying, 'Hey, is we lose, so be it." is the perfect example of an ideal leader.
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 I’d rate Pickford more if he’d done what he did to Virgil to Bonucci
Administrator Stan Posted July 12, 2021 Author Administrator Posted July 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: Given we don’t know the circumstances of any of it, who knows? Did we want Kyle Walker taking a penalty instead of say Jadon Sancho purely because he’s been around longer? There were other senior players left on the pitch that could have stepped up, and perhaps had belief instilled in them or been inspired by a more vocal leader. I don't see that in Kane - a different type of leader perhaps and I'm not saying everyone should be like Ronaldo. But in that moment, you'd want to be galvanised and given confidence from your captain, right? Maybe there's footage out there showing Kane did that to help the youngsters and it didn't work. I haven't seen it but if there is, so be it.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 12, 2021 Subscriber Posted July 12, 2021 I do think there was a fundamental misunderstanding of the psychology of the moment. Southgate's level of trust in his players and their different strengths and weaknesses is unconditional. His outlook seems to be that if he trusts Saka or Sancho to score a penalty more than he trusts Luke Shaw or Raheem Sterling then the circumstances around it don't really matter. He trusted those penalty takers to be able to cope with the situation. That faith is what has got the team through a lot of tricky moments and arguably got them to this final. He stuck with that approach to the end, when a late dose of pragmatism might have won the shootout for us. I'd have had Luke Shaw taking a penalty to be honest. Maybe even Kalvin Phillips or Kyle Walker or John Stones. Players who have performed the full 120 minutes and had the chance to rise to the occasion. Sancho, Rashford, and even though he had been on the pitch a while, Saka, just weren't at the right level psychologically for that moment.
MUFC Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, carefreeluke said: Every country or team has its minority of knob heads but for us, our minority is far bigger than anyone else's. Pre-match this topic was filled with debate about how nobody likes the English and in this way, you have to fully understand why. I've very recently got back to England for the first time in about 18 months. Went out yesterday for the first time around Leicester Square to watch the game and before the match it was crazy but I was also quickly reminded of how many wankers we have in this country. The problem is with English people is that we can have a laugh and whatnot but with occasions like that, there's always this underlying tension in the air and the atmosphere is never a fully enjoyable one because of it. One moment there's everyone singing and enjoying themselves, the next there are people launching glass bottles into crowds as if the bottles were balloons. Yesterday in parts, was just an escalated and heightened version of everything we see can see on Friday and Saturday nights up and down the country. It's not just because it's football, it's what this country is. It's friendly and fun in most parts, talking to random people, people singing, and having a laugh but at the same time, it's one little moment away from just completely kicking off. I was really excited about the game beforehand, really excited to see my mates for the first time in so long as well but the whole atmosphere up there dampened everything a little for me. Don't get me wrong the majority probably behaved well, it's just our minority of troublemakers are a lot more noticeable than anyone else's. I don't want to come off as if I'm generalizing too much but the English can be the politest people you'd ever meet but as soon as they have a drink down them or whatever else, it can be the complete opposite. Spot on point.
Smiley Culture Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, Eco said: I think it's more than just being a senior leader. I've played sports where we had a strong leader who out worked everyone and had everyone's respect, and when he spoke about what we needed to do, people listened. He spoke and you'd feel a sense of a relief to a point. Ronaldo saying, 'Hey, is we lose, so be it." is the perfect example of an ideal leader. Looked completely like Southgate had a plan and people looked interested last night, to me, which we’ve not always seen with penalties when it comes to England. I’ve no issue with Kane, Maguire, Rashford and Sancho taking penalties, they’re 3/4 attacking players and at least two of them have been first choice takers at their clubs at some point. Looking at which was on the pitch at the time of penalties, the most experienced players who weren’t in the first five were Shaw, Stones and Sterling. Would we swap anyone around from that list to the five who did take them? Sterling, perhaps but I’m not sure on his penalty record as I can’t really remember him taking any. If Saka was confident and put his hand up, which by all accounts he did, then I have no problems with it.
Panna King Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, Stan said: Should Kane have spoken up like this? Kane is a shocking leader only have to look at how he leads Spurs a bit like Henry when he was Arsenals captain, awful leadership but good player.
Danny Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 Jadon Sancho has just been sold for £70m, Marcus Rashford has been a mainstay in United's team since he was about 18/19....are we really believing that they're too inexperienced?? Saka maybe...but it's about quality of penalties taken and how you practice them, belief in yourself on the night too. Can't believe we're genuinely asking if Harry Kane should have done what one of the greatest footballers to ever play did...we lost, stop reaching for issues that don't exist
Lucas Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 16 hours ago, LFCMike said: Phillips is boss. Could defo see him in a Klopp midfield Fuck. That.
Eco Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, carefreeluke said: Every country or team has its minority of knob heads but for us, our minority is far bigger than anyone else's. Pre-match this topic was filled with debate about how nobody likes the English and in this way, you have to fully understand why. I've very recently got back to England for the first time in about 18 months. Went out yesterday for the first time around Leicester Square to watch the game and before the match it was crazy but I was also quickly reminded of how many wankers we have in this country. The problem is with English people is that we can have a laugh and whatnot but with occasions like that, there's always this underlying tension in the air and the atmosphere is never a fully enjoyable one because of it. One moment there's everyone singing and enjoying themselves, the next there are people launching glass bottles into crowds as if the bottles were balloons. Yesterday in parts, was just an escalated and heightened version of everything we see can see on Friday and Saturday nights up and down the country. It's not just because it's football, it's what this country is. It's friendly and fun in most parts, talking to random people, people singing, and having a laugh but at the same time, it's one little moment away from just completely kicking off. I was really excited about the game beforehand, really excited to see my mates for the first time in so long as well but the whole atmosphere up there dampened everything a little for me. Don't get me wrong the majority probably behaved well, it's just our minority of troublemakers are a lot more noticeable than anyone else's. I don't want to come off as if I'm generalizing too much but the English can be the politest people you'd ever meet but as soon as they have a drink down them or whatever else, it can be the complete opposite. As someone who has visited England around 10 times, I think this is spot on. I've had some great moments with the locals, and some absolutely horrific.
Panna King Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 21 hours ago, The Palace Fan said: @It's Coming Home! really enjoying his visit to London I see. Wasn't me, I would've had it going in the other way.
MUFC Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 Sometimes don't players not take penalties because they are physically shattered? I remember when Liverpool won the CL vs Milan. Gerrard who was Liverpool's penalty taker said he was too shattered, emotionally and physically to take a penalty. But I remember when we beat Chelsea on penalties in the 2008 CL final. Fergie trusted Nani and Anderson in the shootout who were 20 and 21 at the time, and it was their first season at the club.
Subscriber Dan+ Posted July 12, 2021 Subscriber Posted July 12, 2021 4 hours ago, MUFC said: I think if Chiesa never got injured they would have won it in normal time. Am wondering how far England would gave got if they were on the other side of the draw. I think if we finish 2nd we don't get past the last 16. Spain would've beaten us.
Administrator Stan Posted July 12, 2021 Author Administrator Posted July 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, Danny said: Jadon Sancho has just been sold for £70m, Marcus Rashford has been a mainstay in United's team since he was about 18/19....are we really believing that they're too inexperienced?? Saka maybe...but it's about quality of penalties taken and how you practice them, belief in yourself on the night too. Can't believe we're genuinely asking if Harry Kane should have done what one of the greatest footballers to ever play did...we lost, stop reaching for issues that don't exist Not reaching, at all. Genuinely just posing a question.
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