Bluewolf 7,161 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 33 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Also lol at Everton only being able to spend £35 . Tottenham's is shocking as well From what I was reading they have such a large amount to spend because it's run on a business model which is slightly different to how a lot of other teams like Chelsea/City/Liverpool operate for example weird though that sounds because they operate a Trophy winning model. It's the same model that Arsenal operated under when they had Wenger in charge but that lack of spending on the squad has seen them decline as a football power over the years.. 22 minutes ago, RondónEFC said: I think the £35 is supposed to be £35m but is also negative so less than £35. I don't know what the FFP rules are to be honest Rondon is correct it's -35Mill and I believe a club can have up to £105Mill in losses over 3 years before FFP kicks in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,197 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: From what I was reading they have such a large amount to spend because it's run on a business model which is slightly different to how a lot of other teams like Chelsea/City/Liverpool operate for example weird though that sounds because they operate a Trophy winning model. It's the same model that Arsenal operated under when they had Wenger in charge but that lack of spending on the squad has seen them decline as a football power over the years.. Rondon is correct it's -35Mill and I believe a club can have up to £105Mill in losses over 3 years before FFP kicks in... Is it because of their new stadium? Because with Arsenal it was their stadium that held back their spending. I dunno if it's really fair to lump us in with you and City. I think we probably operate a lot more closely to Spurs and Arsenal than you do, in that our goal most seasons is: 1.) to qualify for the CL so we get CL money, 2.) to win as many CL games as possible, partially to go far in the tournament but mostly because the money for each win in the tournament is massive. Winning anything is sort of a cherry on top of a sustainable/profitable season for them. I wouldn't compare how you operate with City either anymore either. Roman has clearly made steps to make Chelsea more sustainable under the FFP rules - although I don't know if I think that could have been possible for Chelsea to operate the way they do currently without the massive investments made pre-FFP. City, however, have the benefit of being owned by Abu Dhabi's royal family - so whenever they need to pump up their financial numbers they'll just get a dodgy sponsorship deal from Abu Dhabi royal family owned businesses - as we saw twice last week. Chelsea still don't really operate like most clubs because they can afford to... be weird. For instance, using your incredibly talented academy the way it's primarily used (at least prior to the transfer ban & Lampard bedding in young players from the academy) to fund new first team transfers... that's something I can't imagine any other club, except maybe City or United, doing with that talented crop of youngsters. Liverpool, Arsenal, and Spurs would be rubbing their hands together thinking "fuck yes, now we don't need to spend money to sign new players" and would be looking to make a pathway for them into the first team. But those clubs also seem to give their managers (that aren't absolutely terrible - Spurs have had to churn through some managers not up to the standard they'd wanted to be at since Poch left, Arsenal going with Emery was a bit of the same) a lot more time to make their mark on the side, so they've got less pressure to play kids, compared to Chelsea where one bad run could potentially end the manager's tenure in charge. With Spurs, I find it particularly shocking because they've needed some quality reinforcements for years. And just because Ndombele's been such a disaster, doesn't mean the issue with Spurs spending money is they did it too much. The Kane situation over the summer is, to an extent, a self-inflicted wound. Had they given Poch a serious warchest to spend after they made the CL final (like FSG did with us), Spurs probably end up looking a lot stronger than they do today. And like us, they probably wouldn't have spent big every transfer window (because Levy and FSG are cheap) and would still have a few hundred million they're able to spend this season. Makes me feel for @Storts - I think FSG have sort of missed their/our moment in not investing big with this manager and squad after we won the league and I think for the foreseeable future we're in a fight for 3rd/4th while you and City are the likely contenders until Newcastle get their act together... and then they'll be right up there with you two. Similarly, Levy's missed Spurs' moment they've got players like Kane and Son in their primes... but probably not going to contend for any of the trophies that Storts or other Spurs fans have dreamed about winning the whole time they've supported that club. Apologies to @SirBalonfor stealing his thunder and writing a massive post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Is it because of their new stadium? Because with Arsenal it was their stadium that held back their spending. I dunno if it's really fair to lump us in with you and City. I think we probably operate a lot more closely to Spurs and Arsenal than you do, in that our goal most seasons is: 1.) to qualify for the CL so we get CL money, 2.) to win as many CL games as possible, partially to go far in the tournament but mostly because the money for each win in the tournament is massive. Winning anything is sort of a cherry on top of a sustainable/profitable season for them. I wouldn't compare how you operate with City either anymore either. Roman has clearly made steps to make Chelsea more sustainable under the FFP rules - although I don't know if I think that could have been possible for Chelsea to operate the way they do currently without the massive investments made pre-FFP. City, however, have the benefit of being owned by Abu Dhabi's royal family - so whenever they need to pump up their financial numbers they'll just get a dodgy sponsorship deal from Abu Dhabi royal family owned businesses - as we saw twice last week. Chelsea still don't really operate like most clubs because they can afford to... be weird. For instance, using your incredibly talented academy the way it's primarily used (at least prior to the transfer ban & Lampard bedding in young players from the academy) to fund new first team transfers... that's something I can't imagine any other club, except maybe City or United, doing with that talented crop of youngsters. Liverpool, Arsenal, and Spurs would be rubbing their hands together thinking "fuck yes, now we don't need to spend money to sign new players" and would be looking to make a pathway for them into the first team. But those clubs also seem to give their managers (that aren't absolutely terrible - Spurs have had to churn through some managers not up to the standard they'd wanted to be at since Poch left, Arsenal going with Emery was a bit of the same) a lot more time to make their mark on the side, so they've got less pressure to play kids, compared to Chelsea where one bad run could potentially end the manager's tenure in charge. With Spurs, I find it particularly shocking because they've needed some quality reinforcements for years. And just because Ndombele's been such a disaster, doesn't mean the issue with Spurs spending money is they did it too much. The Kane situation over the summer is, to an extent, a self-inflicted wound. Had they given Poch a serious warchest to spend after they made the CL final (like FSG did with us), Spurs probably end up looking a lot stronger than they do today. And like us, they probably wouldn't have spent big every transfer window (because Levy and FSG are cheap) and would still have a few hundred million they're able to spend this season. Makes me feel for @Storts - I think FSG have sort of missed their/our moment in not investing big with this manager and squad after we won the league and I think for the foreseeable future we're in a fight for 3rd/4th while you and City are the likely contenders until Newcastle get their act together... and then they'll be right up there with you two. Similarly, Levy's missed Spurs' moment they've got players like Kane and Son in their primes... but probably not going to contend for any of the trophies that Storts or other Spurs fans have dreamed about winning the whole time they've supported that club. Apologies to @SirBalonfor stealing his thunder and writing a massive post. WOAH! What was the point in my return! If I can add my ten pence worth in reference to what you’ve eloquently written. I think the stand out issue is where clubs spend on big names because they exist and are obviously experimenting where what’s required is in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Is it because of their new stadium? Because with Arsenal it was their stadium that held back their spending. Probably had a lot to do with it... but that's the difference between running a business model ahead of a trophy winning one... they wanted to try and increase future revenue from extra ticket sales so couldn't spend big on players which is why Wenger was ideal for them, he seemed to be able to manage players from the youth or get in bargain buys while all that was going on but against the likes of City and ourselves it was never going to be enough to keep step in the league so something had to give... Spurs though run it slightly differently... the reason they have more clout financially is because they have kept their wage bill down being nearly a quarter to half the wage demands of the other top 6 clubs.. They kept their wages low in proportion to the amount of income the club generates.. Also... the mere mention of Liverpool being even close to both City and Chelsea in how they operate and out you come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,197 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: Probably had a lot to do with it... but that's the difference between running a business model ahead of a trophy winning one... they wanted to try and increase future revenue from extra ticket sales so couldn't spend big on players which is why Wenger was ideal for them, he seemed to be able to manage players from the youth or get in bargain buys while all that was going on but against the likes of City and ourselves it was never going to be enough to keep step in the league so something had to give... Spurs though run it slightly differently... the reason they have more clout financially is because they have kept their wage bill down being nearly a quarter to half the wage demands of the other top 6 clubs.. They kept their wages low in proportion to the amount of income the club generates.. Also... the mere mention of Liverpool being even close to both City and Chelsea in how they operate and out you come... I'd forgotten that Spurs do have an absurdly low wage budget (other than Kane, who I think is by far their biggest earner). That'll always be tough for them to try to compete with our clubs, Citeh, Arsenal, and United tbh. And is probably why even in their best seasons under Poch, they'd fall away from the pack come squeaky bum time. But given how much money they've made and how ambition at the club has risen, I think it'd be a reasonable business decision from them to consider increasing the wage bill so as to attract those top players that are going to be getting outrageous offers from clubs all around Europe. But that balancing act is tough, I don't think it's coincidental our spending over the last few seasons has mostly been signing young players for the academy and Konate for the long-term future of our first team while our DOF has been primarily tasked with extending the contracts of our best players. We already had quite a high wage bill and it's grown a lot as more and more players have signed deals and want to have some wage parity with their teammates. Honestly though, I think it's remarkable seeing those numbers that Spurs haven't invested more in their first team. Although considering how Mourinho's seemingly lost his touch and he typically required an unreasonable amount of cash to be successful, maybe it was for the best they kept the purse strings relatively tight. They've got Conte in on a short contract, I think now more than ever is the time to let a manager spend outrageous sums of cash to try to let the club's ambitions match what they should have been after they made a CL final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,012 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Part of a deal for Digne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,671 Posted January 11, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 11, 2022 I'm sure everyone here will be shocked to learn that any links to El Ghazi have come about due to his agent being mates with Moshiri than any need Everton have in that area. Doesn't get a look in unless we're missing 3 out of our 4 better players in the wide attacking position, Richarlison, Gray, Gordon and Townsend. Very random part of the squad to be targeting when a creative midfielder or centre back would actually be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,012 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,210 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 This is a big move for Villa, they're really putting together a good group of players, just got to get them performing together regularly now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,671 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 12, 2022 Getting him sold and getting a half-decent fee for him is alright. Losing one of our best players in his prime to a direct rival for pretty stupid reasons is bad though and we probably could have got a better fee if Benitez hadn't chatted quite as much shit about how badly they've fallen out in the media and made it very clear we need to sell him. All things considered, a relative success by our standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots 607 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 On 09/01/2022 at 20:30, Bluewolf said: How every Premier League club can spend in January within FFP rules Everton - -£35 Aston Villa - £5m Southampton - £37m Watford - £60m Crystal Palace - £66m Wolves - £70m West Ham - £71m Leicester City - £79m Man City - £84m Brighton - £85m Brentford - £88m Norwich City - £92m Leeds - £99m Newcastle - £166m Burnley - £171m Arsenal - £201m Chelsea - £241m Man Utd - £243m Liverpool - £273m Tottenham - £400m I believe we can do £90m this window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said: I believe we can do £90m this window Where do you get those figures from mate??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,671 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 12, 2022 Digne's side of the story. Some of those comments not exactly consistent with the not wanting a war of words thing. Oh well, it's over now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots 607 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Bluewolf said: Where do you get those figures from mate??? Saw it from a local journalist on Twitter a few days back. Structures of payment is a massive thing in this PC is just wages this year, 33m next years accounts if we buy. Grealish went for £100m it counts as profit as academy, Purslow wrote the book on FFP we are within the parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots 607 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, RondónEFC said: Digne's side of the story. Some of those comments not exactly consistent with the not wanting a war of words thing. Oh well, it's over now. I’m excited by this signing I think he’s a tidy player and worthy of a top 6 side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,671 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said: I’m excited by this signing I think he’s a tidy player and worthy of a top 6 side Yeah he's better than people make out defensively but not elite. If you can get the best out of him going forward though he's up there with the best at creating chances from that part of the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots 607 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Just now, RondónEFC said: Yeah he's better than people make out defensively but not elite. If you can get the best out of him going forward though he's up there with the best at creating chances from that part of the pitch. Yeah that’s what he’s for, Targett is ok but was overlapping Jack and doesn’t have that now so we’ve struggled down that left side. These two will solve that and suddenly we will push for a top 8 finish now. Anwar is heading your way, he’s wasteful but will get some crucial goals. His problem is he tries to do too much at times but a top pro doesn’t drink will stay fit etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,671 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said: Yeah that’s what he’s for, Targett is ok but was overlapping Jack and doesn’t have that now so we’ve struggled down that left side. These two will solve that and suddenly we will push for a top 8 finish now. Anwar is heading your way, he’s wasteful but will get some crucial goals. His problem is he tries to do too much at times but a top pro doesn’t drink will stay fit etc Yeah El Ghazi is just a meh for me. At least we're getting him on loan and not for the £15m fee that was initially reported. Problem is some very reliable insiders have said the manager has said he doesn't want him three times but the owner seems to have pushed it through because he's mates with the player's agent and hearing that that's how decisions get made at the club just makes me despair and think there's no point trying to pay attention or make sense of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,197 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, RondónEFC said: Yeah El Ghazi is just a meh for me. At least we're getting him on loan and not for the £15m fee that was initially reported. Problem is some very reliable insiders have said the manager has said he doesn't want him three times but the owner seems to have pushed it through because he's mates with the player's agent and hearing that that's how decisions get made at the club just makes me despair and think there's no point trying to pay attention or make sense of it all. Wait so Moshiri didn't listen to Brands? He doesn't listen to the fans? And now he's not listening to Rafa? A bit weird, isn't it? But I suppose if Everton fans don't trust Rafa's decision making, signing a player he doesn't really want might be a good thing? Seems weird though to ignore the people hired to make footballing decisions & to constantly ignore the will of the fans (the lifeblood of any club) - he'll have to start getting some decisions right rather than get them way wrong to earn back some trust from Everton fans... ... but he's not made too many great decisions for Everton, I think, so history isn't really the side of this businessman making football decisions while ignoring the people he's hired to help with those decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,671 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Wait so Moshiri didn't listen to Brands? He doesn't listen to the fans? And now he's not listening to Rafa? A bit weird, isn't it? But I suppose if Everton fans don't trust Rafa's decision making, signing a player he doesn't really want might be a good thing? Seems weird though to ignore the people hired to make footballing decisions & to constantly ignore the will of the fans (the lifeblood of any club) - he'll have to start getting some decisions right rather than get them way wrong to earn back some trust from Everton fans... ... but he's not made too many great decisions for Everton, I think, so history isn't really the side of this businessman making football decisions while ignoring the people he's hired to help with those decisions. It's obviously not as simple as that. You lot continue to look at this through the lens of Everton fans automatically disagreeing with or disliking things he does 'because it's Rafa'. He's largely been judged on the merits of what he's produced which up to this point has more often than not been very bad. You don't need to bring any bias or prejudice to the table to be displeased with his tenure as manager so far, there's plenty of objective evidence of it already. I agree with the manager in this instance, because I'm forming my opinion on the circumstances of the situation. We don't need El Ghazi. Even if I thought we needed him, though, and the owner was going against the manager to do a deal with his mate like this I'd be saying "great we're getting that player I think we need" but still be concerned with that behaviour. Rationale can't be applied to Moshiri's behaviour though. One minute he's overruling the Director of Football on managerial appointments, then overruling the Director of Football, entire scouting team and most of the medical team because the manager doesn't like the cut of their jib, then he overrules the manager who he's thus far backed over everything for... Anwar El Ghazi. The bloke is an absolute maniac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,197 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, RondónEFC said: It's obviously not as simple as that. You lot continue to look at this through the lens of Everton fans automatically disagreeing with or disliking things he does 'because it's Rafa'. He's largely been judged on the merits of what he's produced which up to this point has more often than not been very bad. You don't need to bring any bias or prejudice to the table to be displeased with his tenure as manager so far, there's plenty of objective evidence of it already. On the one hand, maybe... on the other hand, I'm not convinced many managers could get better results (better performances sure, but better results... I'm not so sure) with the injuries to key players Everton have had and the lack of quality in depth generally. Not that I think most of Everton's players are bad on an individual level (although tbh, some of them I don't really rate at all - for various reasons, whether it's Coleman just being way too past it for this level or Michael Keane... being himself, for example) - but it's a squad that's been put together by several managers and possibly(?) a recently departed DoF & as a result I think it's this weird hodgepodge collection of players rather than a functional squad. Having said that, I fully understand criticising Rafa for the shit performances he and Everton have served up to the fans this season. It's a bit like Roy Hodgson's time with us - it's all well and good everyone saying "oh he needs more time" but sometimes shit performances are just shit performances and it doesn't matter who's on the pitch. Also, it seems that Rafa is cursed. Clubs signing players he didn't want in the first place has happened to him at so many clubs - this potential signing doesn't really address any pressing need that Everton actually have. It's potentially an inconsistent player that'll honestly probably just be there to provide cover for Gray & Townsend, who've actually looked like pretty astute signings. I'd have thought a CB, a striker, or a CM would be much more pressing issues for Everton - I assume Rafa probably feels the same way and would probably like to see any incoming singings address those areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey 1,192 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 More and more protests gathering pace on social media. We need to get our club back, the sooner Moshiri and Benitez are out of the club the better. Leeches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,012 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 El Ghazi might not be a bad loan signing. Scored more than Richarlison last season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reluctant Striker 134 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Well Digne seems better than the Rangers full back Villa were being rumoured to sign. Seems more a Merseyside raid than an Ibrox one is under way. I am sure Villa can spend a bit more too this month, if the right players are available. Net spend on transfer fees was pretty much zero over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ 1,388 Posted January 14, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted January 14, 2022 On 12/01/2022 at 14:01, shut up said: That's a great fee for a 28 yr old who Everton don't want anymore. I don't think he's as good as people are making out either i initially was thinking what a loss but I think you’re right. Watch him smash it for Villa now though. On 12/01/2022 at 22:33, RondónEFC said: Digne's side of the story. Some of those comments not exactly consistent with the not wanting a war of words thing. Oh well, it's over now. My mates happy with it anyway. Happy you made a few mill and thibk for his age it’s a good price. Group chat with an Everton fan best mate and a Liverpool fan… Yes lol at the group name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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