UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, SkyBruce Championship said:

The National Audit Offices job is to independently do that. Are you saying they are not and therefore it needs an inquiry?

Have they said anything about these expenses or Home Office spending? Is it something they would look in to? 

The Home Office tweeting about fact-checking themselves was unusual, too? Surely they just leave that up to the audit office if this is what they are responsible for doing? 

[Moon Monkey]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

If anyone needs any idea of how corrupt our government have been in the midst of a pandemic... 

 

 

Is that fact checked Stan?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9410405/amp/Priti-Patel-targeted-social-media-smear-fake-news-spent-77-000-eyebrows.html

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Have they said anything about these expenses or Home Office spending? Is it something they would look in to? 

The Home Office tweeting about fact-checking themselves was unusual, too? Surely they just leave that up to the audit office if this is what they are responsible for doing? 

If you are asking me whether they or the expenses watchdog are giving a public running commentary for Twitter conspiracy theorists of any audit into the Home Office spending, my gut instinct is no. 

[RandoEFC+]

Bottom line: pick your battles. This lot, especially in the social media age are going to give a lot of opportunities.

More interested really in the political landscape in Scotland between now and the May elections.

[Stan]

 

 

[Dave]

10 hours ago, Stan said:

 

 

He got my vote at Croydon needing a face lift.

[RandoEFC+]

Count Binface is generally polling at level with Laurence Fox at 1% . Next time Fox is on Question Time complaining about how he's been cancelled and "no-platformed" by the world, I hope somebody suggests that we should get Count Binface on for an appearance for the sake of the "balance" that Fox and his weird Reclaim/Reform/ifyoureallythinkaboutitmiddleagedwhitemenlikemearetherealvictimsinallthis following seem to treasure so much.

Speaking of the free speech (but only if we agree with it) brigade, you simply won't believe how much Emma Webb of the Free Speech Union believes in everybody being able to express themselves free of censoring:

I'm not even annoyed, this lot are just objectively fascinating and hilarious.

[RandoEFC+]

Wow.

Getting attacked by the Mail and Cummings rearing his head on Friday night with some pretty explosive accusations. There were reports today that up to 6 ministers were putting teams together in case a leadership election is on the horizon. We're a long way from that point but reading the detail of the Johnson-Symonds-Cummings psychodrama, someone is going to end up with a serious bloody nose when all of this shakes out and it could well be Johnson himself.

[Stan]

His PR team will be very busy over the next few days... 

[Bluewolf]

Johnson was looking very rattled today when under pressure about Tory sleaze... As someone put it he had a Kevin Keegan moment... 

[Bluewolf]

A man under pressure... 

[Stan]

He knows he's fucked up and been found out that's why. Coming up against a pro ex-prosecutor probably isn't the best situation for him! 

[Stan]

58 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

A man under pressure... 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Arlene Foster fucking off as Northern Ireland's First Minister after doing all that she can to make Northern Ireland descend into chaos over the last few years.

[RandoEFC+]

The attacks on Johnson aren't really coming directly from the opposition. Everything that's being thrown at him now has been leaked by either Downing Street staff (probably including but not limited to Cummings), civil service or cabinet members, either incriminating claims or tip-offs that are leading to well-placed Freedom of Information requests from hostile parties. The fact that the Daily Mail led the charge over the 'bodies piled high' comments is interesting and has caused a lot of speculation about Michael Gove (perceived to be Murdoch's man and whose wife works for the DM) being behind some of these attacks. It does seem coordinated and the timing ahead of the local elections doesn't seem accidental, but Gove seems too obvious to me. That judgement isn't based on anything other than how not straightforward anything political in the UK has been in recent years.

My gut instinct at the moment is that Johnson will ride it out. I do think there are recordings, witnesses, further evidence, some sort of smoking gun out there, it just depends on whether those who have possession of them think this is the right time to fully declare war. If he does ride this out though, he'll get taken down eventually because he's managed to string a good few months together of hiding the "let the bodies pile up" side of his personality and ridden the wave of the vaccine success, but he can't change who he is. Johnson's supporters will tell themselves after this latest disruption that "that's it" but there will be another wave in a few months, and again, and again, and eventually it'll take its toll. I think there's a decent chance his bubble will burst before the next general election.

Edited April 28, 2021 by RandoEFC

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

The attacks on Johnson aren't really coming directly from the opposition. Everything that's being thrown at him now has been leaked by either Downing Street staff (probably including but not limited to Cummings), civil service or cabinet members, either incriminating claims or tip-offs that are leading to well-placed Freedom of Information requests from hostile parties. The fact that the Daily Mail led the charge over the 'bodies piled high' comments is interesting and has caused a lot of speculation about Michael Gove (perceived to be Murdoch's man and whose wife works for the DM) being behind some of these attacks. It does seem coordinated and the timing ahead of the local elections doesn't seem accidental, but Gove seems too obvious to me. That judgement isn't based on anything other than how not straightforward anything political in the UK has been in recent years.

My gut instinct at the moment is that Johnson will ride it out. I do think there are recordings, witnesses, further evidence, some sort of smoking gun out there, it just depends on whether those who have possession of them think this is the right time to fully declare war. If he does ride this out though, he'll get taken down eventually because he's managed to string a good few months together of hiding the "let the bodies pile up" side of his personality and ridden the wave of the vaccine success, but he can't change who he is. Johnson's supporters will tell themselves after this latest disruption that "that's it" but there will be another wave in a few months, and again, and again, and eventually it'll take its toll. I think there's a decent chance his bubble will burst before the next general election.

I know this is sort of a pedantic point, because it's a similar type of outlet to many of Murdoch's, but I don't think he owns the Daily Mail... so them leading the charge & Gove being Murdoch's man might be an indication that Gove isn't behind these leaks.

I also think Johnson will ride this out, at least for as long as he can. I'm not too confident that there will be a smoking gun that takes him down before the next general election, though. It depends on how much of the outrage manages to be bipartisan, tbh. Otherwise, he's got the Trump playbook on how to ride out scandals, handle a mostly right-winged press that's overall favourable to him, and how to keep the right-wing populist base in line regardless of whatever negative may be said about him in the press.

If you already think Johnson is an awful leader... this news is just reaffirmingly damning of the man's character. Otherwise, I think it can be quite easy for people who aren't bothered by him being PM to just do the typical "look at the media, biased against our man - we aren't going to believe this" thing and just ignore the scandal.

[MUFC]

How funny is this?

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/britain-first-tricked-into-demonstrating-at-hotels-with-no-asylum-seekers-266628/

[RandoEFC+]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I know this is sort of a pedantic point, because it's a similar type of outlet to many of Murdoch's, but I don't think he owns the Daily Mail... so them leading the charge & Gove being Murdoch's man might be an indication that Gove isn't behind these leaks.

I also think Johnson will ride this out, at least for as long as he can. I'm not too confident that there will be a smoking gun that takes him down before the next general election, though. It depends on how much of the outrage manages to be bipartisan, tbh. Otherwise, he's got the Trump playbook on how to ride out scandals, handle a mostly right-winged press that's overall favourable to him, and how to keep the right-wing populist base in line regardless of whatever negative may be said about him in the press.

If you already think Johnson is an awful leader... this news is just reaffirmingly damning of the man's character. Otherwise, I think it can be quite easy for people who aren't bothered by him being PM to just do the typical "look at the media, biased against our man - we aren't going to believe this" thing and just ignore the scandal.

Fair enough, I knew the Mail had recently changed editor to what certain parts of social media refer to a "bitter Remoaner" but I'm not fully aware of the ownership. If it isn't Murdoch it's one of the others that have historically backed Johnson/Tories though.

I'm not saying that I'd put the chance of him being bumped at 50% or more either, but I do think it's a real possibility. Rishi Sunak and Michael Gove at the very least have made no secret of their leadership ambitions in the past, and there are plenty of others who have stood before or will fancy their chances. It's a game to these people, they all want to be Head Boy and they'll happily grass their best mates up to the headteacher if they think it'll benefit them. Gove has literally done this to Johnson before.

As for Trump, he acted as if he brushed off scandal after scandal, and the two attempts to impeach him both ultimately went nowhere, but let's not forget he lost Republican control of the house, the senate and the presidency in a single term in office. Perhaps he would have won again if the pandemic hadn't struck, but the pandemic highlighted the key aspect of populism that is common to Trump and (to a lesser extent) Johnson - it doesn't deliver results.

There are Trumpian elements to Johnson in that he and this government have brushed off countless scandals that would have brought down previous governments overnight, because there's something about his personality that makes people not want to believe it, not want to think about it, I don't really know what it is because it's not a feeling I've had towards him, but it has its limits. People might tell themselves now, and for another couple of years, that they love it, but they will get bored eventually. Even Trump eventually got overwhelmed by negative headlines, and Johnson is a small fry compared to him, he's playing with a weaker hand in my opinion, and he's easier to replace under our electoral system if things start to go south. I don't think it'll be the Labour Party who take him down at or before the next general election, they have too much work to do to repair their reputation and they're not doing it quickly enough at the moment. It'll be Johnson himself or one of the snakes on his doorstep that do it. This latest series of attacks just seems all a bit too convenient for me, this stuff isn't getting leaked at random, it feels like a coordinated smear campaign, and it's against the Prime Minister himself for the most part rather than the government or the Conservative party. It's all slotting in too nicely with Labour's "Tory sleaze" attack line to be a coincidence. Downing Street even briefed the Mail on Sunday last weekend about a Labour 'mole'. The timing of most of the comments incidents in question and the fact that they're coming out now is suspect. A potential challenger for the leadership trying to temporarily damage the Conservative vote in the upcoming local elections and parliamentary by-election in Hartlepool so Johnson doesn't reaffirm his popularity with the party membership with more electoral success? It's a theory. Too many unknowns still to be more than speculation.

As for the smoking gun, we'll see. I don't know about audio recordings, that's pure speculation I think, but Dominic Cummings claimed to have WhatsApp messages that corroborate the claims made in his statement last Friday and looking at how rattled Boris Johnson was yesterday, let's say I've seen him in a "we both know I did it but we both know you can't prove it" mode in the past. I've never seen him as angry and wound up as he was yesterday, it's another sign that, for me, points to the fact that he's genuinely worried about what someone somewhere has or at least might have on him, whether it's WhatsApp messages, recordings or something else.

Still a lot to come out in this latest episode I think. I'm just hoping it cuts through enough to hand Labour a bit of success and momentum in the local elections because Starmer really needs a launchpad of some sort. The success of the vaccine rollout has really scuppered his and Labour's progress.

[Bluewolf]

What's the point... might as well not bother

Boris Johnson has sparked fury by rejecting a sleaze watchdog’s call for his new independent ethics adviser to be given the power to launch investigations into ministerial wrongdoing.

And the prime minister indicated that ministers who breach their code of conduct will no longer automatically face the sack – a practice he condemned as “disproportionate”.

New terms of reference for the post of independent adviser, published as the Queen’s former private secretary Lord Geidt was appointed to the role, made clear that he will for the first time be able to bring concerns about a minister’s behaviour to the PM’s attention.

But – contrary to a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life – Mr Johnson will hold on to the power to decide whether an inquiry should be launched.

And he will remain the final judge and jury on whether a minister is guilty of wrongdoing and what punishment should be handed out.

Fury as Boris Johnson denies adviser power to launch sleaze inquiries (msn.com)

[Dr. Gonzo]

Bad news for the British fishing industry: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56932551 - UK & Norway fail to work out a deal regarding fishing.

Surprise! One of Farage's big talking points turned out to be a whole lot of bullshit!

[UNIQUE]

On 26/04/2021 at 16:04, RandoEFC said:

Someone is going for Boris Johnson's throat. The quote is sickening but it doesn't teach us anything about the man that we didn't know. Every time you sort of forget about it you get reminded just how dark a point the UK is currently living through in our history with this incompetent and amoral man child elevated to our highest office. Whether it's these latest scandals that bring him down or something else, history won't look kindly upon him or the UK for allowing him and his cabal to be in charge.

did you vote for corbyn and remain by any chance. 

[UNIQUE]

i see people asking nudge medical questions so am i right in thinking that he is well in the know about this stuff. 

[Azeem]

24 minutes ago, UNIQUE said:

i see people asking nudge medical questions so am i right in thinking that he is well in the know about this stuff. 

He has worked with Pfizer, one of the leads in inventing the viagra as well

[MUFC]

1 hour ago, UNIQUE said:

i see people asking nudge medical questions so am i right in thinking that he is well in the know about this stuff. 

She.

[UNIQUE]

42 minutes ago, MUFC said:

She.

woops sorry @nudge