UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[SirBalon]

24 minutes ago, Kowabunga said:

I saw the other day the (irregular) propaganda british voters were spoon fed in social media before the referendum. About Turkey becoming a eu member (rah rah rah), in particular.

Baffling.

That's only a needle in the haystack of the many many false things said about it being best to leave.  If only that had been the only thing!

[Kowabunga]

25 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

That's only a needle in the haystack of the many many false things said about it being best to leave.  If only that had been the only thing!

Ranging from polar bears to taking "your cuppa" away, I can feel your dismay from here.

[SirBalon]

Just now, Kowabunga said:

Ranging from polar bears to taking "your cuppa" away, I can feel your dismay from here.

Don't forget the EU forcing us to eat curved bananas when we used to eat straight ones (wherever they came from) 

[God is Haaland]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Don't forget the EU forcing us to eat curved bananas when we used to eat straight ones (wherever they came from) 

My pants.

[Kowabunga]

1 minute ago, BartraPique1932 said:

My pants.

Should we go straight with that banana?

[God is Haaland]

https://interactive.news.sky.com/brexitshifttabs.pdf

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Pre-referendum here’s what (at least a part) of the leave campaign thought about a no deal Brexit: https://web.archive.org/web/20160316101713/https://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

So just remember that when you hear leavers say things like “Brexit means Brexit, we voted for a clean break, no deal is better than a bad deal, etc” - that’s a million miles away from “no responsible government would let it happen.”

[Bluebird Hewitt]

Tbh, it's getting to the point where I just want to know if it's the EU or the UK and Welsh Government that'll fist me now.

[God is Haaland]

 

[God is Haaland]

On 31/07/2018 at 15:55, Dr. Gonzo said:

Pre-referendum here’s what (at least a part) of the leave campaign thought about a no deal Brexit: https://web.archive.org/web/20160316101713/https://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

So just remember that when you hear leavers say things like “Brexit means Brexit, we voted for a clean break, no deal is better than a bad deal, etc” - that’s a million miles away from “no responsible government would let it happen.”

There's more. https://archive.fo/CDBFf

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The last thing most EU leaders wanted, once the shock had worn off, was a protracted argument with the United Kingdom which, on the day it left, became their single biggest market. Terms were agreed easily enough. Britain withdrew from the EU’s political structures and institutions, but kept its tariff-free arrangements in place.

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Financial services are booming – not only in London, but in Birmingham, Leeds and Edinburgh too.

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Other cities, too, have boomed, not least Liverpool and Glasgow, which had found themselves on the wrong side of the country when the EEC’s Common External Tariff was phased in in the 1970s. In 2016, the viability of our commercial ports was threatened by the EU’s Ports Services Directive, one of many proposed rules that was being held back so as not to boost the Leave vote. Now, the UK has again become a centre for world shipping.

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During the first 12 months after the vote, Britain confirmed with the various countries that have trade deals with the EU that the same deals would continue. It also used that time to agree much more liberal terms with those states which had run up against EU protectionism, including India, China and Australia. These new treaties came into effect shortly after independence. Britain, like the EFTA countries, now combines global free trade with full participation in EU markets.

Edited August 4, 2018 by BartraPique1932

[God is Haaland]

[God is Haaland]

 

I love Britain. 

[God is Haaland]

Look how unhinged and delusional she is. She thinks the EU is going to change their core principles and renegotiate the trade deals with Canada and Japan just so the UK can cherrypick their Brexit unicorn. And she demands a solution from the EU as if they wanted the UK to leave. Is there some kind of air transmissible brain disease going around the country?

Nonetheless she's still not as bad as JRM, BoJo, Davis, Hannan, Gove and Hunt.

Edited September 25, 2018 by BartraPique1932

[The Artful Dodger]

May is an awful position tbf, she is the PM that nobody wants to be.

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, BartraPique1932 said:

Look, how unhinged and delusional she is. She thinks the EU is going to change their core principles and renegotiate the trade deals with Canada and Japan just so the UK can cherrypick their Brexit unicorn. And she demands a solution from the EU as if they wanted the UK to leave. Is there some kind of air transmissible brain disease going around the country?

Nonetheless she's still not as bad as JRM, BoJo, Davis, Hannan, Gove and Hunt.

Everything's fine. It's just project fear that's making Brexit look like an unmitigated disaster.

[Stan]

2 hours ago, BartraPique1932 said:

Nonetheless she's still not as bad as JRM, BoJo, Davis, Hannan, Gove and Hunt.

they're all as bad as each other for their own reasons.

[Honey Honey]

A real Brexit news topic instead of the monthly spasm about how it's going is the clash between the socialists and the FBPE at the Labour Party conference.

[Danny]

4 hours ago, BartraPique1932 said:

Look, how unhinged and delusional she is. She thinks the EU is going to change their core principles and renegotiate the trade deals with Canada and Japan just so the UK can cherrypick their Brexit unicorn. And she demands a solution from the EU as if they wanted the UK to leave. Is there some kind of air transmissible brain disease going around the country?

Nonetheless she's still not as bad as JRM, BoJo, Davis, Hannan, Gove and Hunt.

Try living here mate, throughout the referendum most newspapers painted it as if we were carrying out a great escape from our Nazi captors. Her rhetoric is exactly the sort of bullshit that pushed Brexit through in the first place. Mostly about immigration, Islam, terrorists and being an "independent" nation, Europe is evil Britain isn't...little about anything else.

Hopefully a People's Vote is had but I'm not too confident.

[Kowabunga]

9 hours ago, BartraPique1932 said:

Look, how unhinged and delusional she is. She thinks the EU is going to change their core principles and renegotiate the trade deals with Canada and Japan just so the UK can cherrypick their Brexit unicorn. And she demands a solution from the EU as if they wanted the UK to leave. Is there some kind of air transmissible brain disease going around the country?

Nonetheless she's still not as bad as JRM, BoJo, Davis, Hannan, Gove and Hunt.

I would love a loop starting in 0:56 and ending in 1:00

 

[Inverted]

Starmer's speech at the conference this morning was really interesting. Says that nobody is ruling-out prospect of Remain being an option on a People's Vote. Gets rapturous reception, seems to surprise even him. 

Corbyn and McDonnell have been clear as mud on the issue, so it will be interesting to see if this wasn't what the leadership had in mind in pushing for a vote, or if they were just waiting for Starmer to be the one to say Remain would be an option.

Of course "not ruling out" isn't a very strong commitment to any particular policy, but it feels like a significant moment to even entertain the idea of giving-up Brexit entirely.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Inverted

[Fairy In Boots]

Who do you guys talk to in your day jobs? Do you talk to lower upper or mid level management? 

I’m talking to upper/ mid in engineering/ manufacturing / industrial sectors daily and it’s probably about 4/5 pro Brexit. 

I work for a Japanese company and our big rivals are German, the Japanese don’t care too much and have invested in greater stock holding and logistics post Brexit so we’re less reliant on a European central warehouse to resupply us (as is the current situation) because in fairness our division of the corporation is registered in the U.K. and pays tax and invests & manufactures in the U.K. 

Our German rival doesn’t they supply direct from Germany and funnel all profits out of the U.K. they have a skeleton staff in a U.K. office and a sales network for which they’re paying tax on but that’s it.  Post Brexit they’re potentially fucked at present and that’s a good thing they’re not paying their full tax on their 25% of a 200million market. 

The only people that seem to keep whining are 

A) students and ex students who’ve left uni in the last 2 years and are doing some menial unskilled work that they didn’t qualify in to “fund a trip” or “pay off the loan”. They seem to just not understand Brexit and lament islamiphobia despite a Islamic Country  not being part of the EU. 

B) Civil servants who don’t have a grasp on reality anyway normally. 

C) Europeans who’s own economies either benefit massively or are utterly dependent on the EU. Don’t have first hand knowledge of Britain or its culture but can speak English and read pro European media so feel educated enough to tell us how to suck eggs. 

Its not really a market for us, all the sectors I deal in mentioned above are exporting to South America, Africa, India or the Far East & sometimes the states. 

I deal in start up off shoots of universities in life science etc where they invent an idea and often secure funding (privately) to grow the idea into a fully fledged business. We’re talking in some cases life changing technology such as power generation for rural communities or clinical treatment that can be done from home. Guess where they look to export? Yep not Europe it’s usually 4/5 on the list nowadays. 

The reality is the world has changed, Brexit was never about Farage and “Muslims” as idiots on both sides wish to portray it. Don’t get me wrong you had an element of “make Britain great again” types but it was more a case on what do we (Britain) want to be? 

The answer most Brexit voters will give is “free to choose our own path”, it’s a massive opportunity for us long term if we play it right. Most Brexit voters accept they’ll be a negative to start to due to uncertainty and a period of finding our feet. 

It really was at its core an argument of are you optimistic about Britain and believe it can thrive on its own or are you pessimistic about Britain and believe its better off part of a Union that’s not acting in the National best interests of Britain but the standard of living is ok so why change. 

[Danny]

Nothing to do with racism or xenophobia

The man who spearheaded a Brexit campaign consistently used anti-immigration and anti-Islamic rhetoric to gain support, you are well and truly living in dream land if you think that it didn't play a big role in voting.

To suggest there was no islamaphobia because there is no Muslim country is ridiculous, especially coming from a man who churned out the scaremongering that Turkey will join the EU and flood Europe with Muslims.

[Dr. Gonzo]

“A freedom to choose our own path” sounds nice, but it doesn’t really mean anything. Nor does it explain or justify the negatives that come from either a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit that ties us to EU regulations we have no influence over if we aren’t in the EU. Economic instability also doesn’t make for “freedom.”

Also the fact that some industries might export less to Europe doesn’t change the fact that most British exports are to Europe. You can argue it’s not true. But it is true, so you’d be wrong. You could argue it doesn’t have to be to Europe. But the EU countries are our biggest trading partners.

[SirBalon]

The question is what does this choosing our own path actually mean? 

What's this other path that's a lot more magnificent than the path we were already on.

Having had more time to learn the reality of things during the post referendum period has taught me how much crap we were fed.  All that soveigrenty rubbish which was all lies as we've always had sovereignty and the regulations we abided by are actually regulations that we'll keep even after post Brexit if it ever actually occurs due to the fact it's all in our best interests from safety to quality control.

[God is Haaland]

On 28/09/2018 at 00:42, Fairy In Boots said:

Who do you guys talk to in your day jobs? Do you talk to lower upper or mid level management? 

I’m talking to upper/ mid in engineering/ manufacturing / industrial sectors daily and it’s probably about 4/5 pro Brexit. 

I work for a Japanese company and our big rivals are German, the Japanese don’t care too much and have invested in greater stock holding and logistics post Brexit so we’re less reliant on a European central warehouse to resupply us (as is the current situation) because in fairness our division of the corporation is registered in the U.K. and pays tax and invests & manufactures in the U.K. 

I assume your corporation doesn't export much to the continent.

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Our German rival doesn’t

And why would they?

Quote

they supply direct from Germany and funnel all profits out of the U.K.

How are those two claims logically compatible? 

Quote

they have a skeleton staff in a U.K. office and a sales network for which they’re paying tax on but that’s it.  Post Brexit they’re potentially fucked at present and that’s a good thing they’re not paying their full tax on their 25% of a 200million market. 

The only people that seem to keep whining are 

A) students and ex students who’ve left uni in the last 2 years and are doing some menial unskilled work that they didn’t qualify in to “fund a trip” or “pay off the loan”. They seem to just not understand Brexit and lament islamiphobia despite a Islamic Country  not being part of the EU. 

Like the IFS, the NHS, the WTO, the IMF, the civil servants, the CEOs of BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Siemens, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai?

Quote

B) Civil servants who don’t have a grasp on reality anyway normally. 

The same civil servants who absolutely have to have 100% control over all British laws and regulations without any influence from the EU, because otherwise the UK wouldn't be a sovereign Nation?

Quote

C) Europeans who’s own economies either benefit massively or are utterly dependent on the EU. Don’t have first hand knowledge of Britain or its culture but can speak English and read pro European media so feel educated enough to tell us how to suck eggs. 

Its not really a market for us, all the sectors I deal in mentioned above are exporting to South America, Africa, India or the Far East & sometimes the states. 

I deal in start up off shoots of universities in life science etc where they invent an idea and often secure funding (privately) to grow the idea into a fully fledged business. We’re talking in some cases life changing technology such as power generation for rural communities or clinical treatment that can be done from home. Guess where they look to export? Yep not Europe it’s usually 4/5 on the list nowadays. 

The reality is the world has changed, Brexit was never about Farage and “Muslims” as idiots on both sides wish to portray it. Don’t get me wrong you had an element of “make Britain great again” types but it was more a case on what do we (Britain) want to be? 

The answer most Brexit voters will give is “free to choose our own path”, it’s a massive opportunity for us long term if we play it right.

When you used the word "us" you probably meant yourself and a couple of your co-workers, because unlike yours more than a million jobs in manufacturing depend on a direct access to the EU single market and frictionless flow at the borders.

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Most Brexit voters accept they’ll be a negative to start to due to uncertainty and a period of finding our feet. 

How long will this period last?

Quote

It really was at its core an argument of are you optimistic about Britain and believe it can thrive on its own or are you pessimistic about Britain and believe its better off part of a Union that’s not acting in the National best interests of Britain but the standard of living is ok so why change. 

How hard do I need to believe to fix BoJo's hair?

Edited September 29, 2018 by BartraPique1932