UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[SirBalon]

5 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Lol what has some cunt writing an inaccurate column got to do with Brexit? 

You get more and more rabid over this by the day

Because it's reason number one to fight any form of Brexit, because it's now more than evident that those that continue to maintain this stance are on the main xenophobic bigots who only care about FOM and the house of cards regarding "sovereignty", "a improvement of our lives" or whatever other bullshit reason has collapsed and the only thing that remains is taking away a freedom. The tweet is related to that because that's all that remains.

Anyway... Nothing to to do us or this, but a further piece which has a rich geezer stating what it's all about.

 

[SirBalon]

More dive and spivs!

James O'Brien actually forgot to add one little nugget of gold to the Milk Quotas regulation that was scrapped in 2016, the fact that those Milk Quotas were for ALL MEMBER STATES!

Anyway... Please please please watch this short video... More evidence of idiocy!

 

[Fairy In Boots]

5 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Because it's reason number one to fight any form of Brexit, because it's now more than evident that those that continue to maintain this stance are on the main xenophobic bigots who only care about FOM and the house of cards regarding "sovereignty", "a improvement of our lives" or whatever other bullshit reason has collapsed and the only thing that remains is taking away a freedom. The tweet is related to that because that's all that remains.

Anyway... Nothing to to do us or this, but a further piece which has a rich geezer stating what it's all about.

 

What a well reasoned argument that is. Fuck me this has got embarrassing just have a week off 

[RandoEFC+]

Sounds like Johnson has "surrendered" to most of the EU demands in his desperate bid not to be embarrassed into asking for an extension. DUP not yet on board but there appears to be an agreement between Johnson, Barnier and the Irish bloke.

Unlikely to get through the Commons though methinks.

[Fairy In Boots]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Sounds like Johnson has "surrendered" to most of the EU demands in his desperate bid not to be embarrassed into asking for an extension. DUP not yet on board but there appears to be an agreement between Johnson, Barnier and the Irish bloke.

Unlikely to get through the Commons though methinks.

Three ERG will be a good barometer because they will spit the dummy of its mays deal minus the backstop

[RandoEFC+]

15 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Three ERG will be a good barometer because they will spit the dummy of its mays deal minus the backstop

It's going to be a funny one now. The ERG are more likely to be malleable than they were with May's deal with an election imminent and the damage it will do the Tories to have to ask for an extension after all Johnson has said about getting it done with or without a deal on October 31.

Then on the other side you've got Labour MPs who may have backed a deal but are now less likely to help Boris get Brexit done and riding that wave into a general election.

It's a wait and see one for me. I have nowhere near enough knowledge on the Irish border side of things to comment in much depth on it.

[Danny]

“I voted for a hard Brexit, Brexit means Brexit” etc etc

No you voted for any form of Brexit including a soft Brexit, hard Brexit or a medium rare Brexit

That is a fundamental part of the Brexit vote that for a lot of people who voted for it don’t understand. They can’t dictate the type of Brexit they want when they voted for any type of Brexit and also do not want a referendum to decide specifically what type of Brexit they want vs staying. That is crazy.

[Fairy In Boots]

10 minutes ago, Danny said:

“I voted for a hard Brexit, Brexit means Brexit” etc etc

No you voted for any form of Brexit including a soft Brexit, hard Brexit or a medium rare Brexit

That is a fundamental part of the Brexit vote that for a lot of people who voted for it don’t understand. They can’t dictate the type of Brexit they want when they voted for any type of Brexit and also do not want a referendum to decide specifically what type of Brexit they want vs staying. That is crazy.

I would have been open to a negotiation of a deal and a referendum on that deal. 

Politically this country has wasted 3 years, I blame that on remain MP’s who’ve never really had any intention of leaving and have weakened out negotiating position with every turn. 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I would have been open to a negotiation of a deal and a referendum on that deal. 

Politically this country has wasted 3 years, I blame that on remain MP’s who’ve never really had any intention of leaving and have weakened out negotiating position with every turn. 

No blame apportioned for any politician that couldn't help negotiate a deal properly? 

I blame David Cameron for getting us in to this mess and suggesting a referendum in the first place. I blame several politicians across the board for wasting 3 years. Bit naive to just choose remain MPs to blame.

[Danny]

21 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I would have been open to a negotiation of a deal and a referendum on that deal. 

Politically this country has wasted 3 years, I blame that on remain MP’s who’ve never really had any intention of leaving and have weakened out negotiating position with every turn. 

You don’t blame those who campaigned for Leave who didn’t bring up the Irish border as a legitimate hurdle that we very well may not be able to overcome to get a hard Brexit? Or how open ended the referendum was with regards to what people were actually voting for? Because the current outcome of voting for any old Brexit has caused nothing but instability 

[Fairy In Boots]

22 minutes ago, Stan said:

No blame apportioned for any politician that couldn't help negotiate a deal properly? 

I blame David Cameron for getting us in to this mess and suggesting a referendum in the first place. I blame several politicians across the board for wasting 3 years. Bit naive to just choose remain MPs to blame.

Not exactly what I blamed remain mps for, I blamed them for weakening our bargaining power. 

You go into any negotiation in any walk of live with the other party knowing your hands are tied and you’re fucked you get a shitty deal. 

May and Hammond are remainers that went about it in a “oh we’ll have Brexit in name only type deal” it sunk her premiership. 

2 minutes ago, Danny said:

You don’t blame those who campaigned for Leave who didn’t bring up the Irish border as a legitimate hurdle that we very well may not be able to overcome to get a hard Brexit? Or how open ended the referendum was with regards to what people were actually voting for? Because the current outcome of voting for any old Brexit has caused nothing but instability 

Nope I was talking to a guy today in crewe who voted leave, he summed up what I and most leavers I’ve spoken to over the last 3 years feel. He said “it was fairly self explanatory we vote leave we then inform we’re off then we negotiate and agree a deal, with any deal there’s a compromise and you move on after. But what’s happened appears to be either selfish mps putting their careers ahead of the country and effectively sabotaging negotiations by wearing our position or those negotiating are either incompetent or they’ve not really for Brexit so want to make it look like it’s impossible so we go cool on it”

thats how I feel really, it’s a fucking trade block becoming a federation of states. I want out

[SirBalon]

9 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Not exactly what I blamed remain mps for, I blamed them for weakening our bargaining power. 

 

There is no bargaining power when you walk away with nothing!

in normal negotiations you keep what you have (you know, that thing called the "status quo"), in this case you lose what you had and are left in the wilderness.

Now be careful on what you argue regarding that shit about WTO Terms which doesn't exist!

[RandoEFC+]

Apparently a deal has been agreed but the DUP haven't given their backing. It's hard to see that going through Parliament hassle-free before October 31. They obviously have this big sitting tomorrow where this will all be discussed. I can see the compromise being that MPs will vote through a motion where the deal goes to a Remain vs Deal second referendum to be held as soon as possible and Johnson asking for a three-month extension in the meantime.

I think this is a win for Johnson though. I don't think it's going to be a great deal because I get the impression his team have been desperate to get some sort of deal in place even if it's not exactly what they were hoping for. If the deal gets thrown out by the commons and he is forced to ask for an extension then he can go into the election saying that Labour and the other parties have blocked Brexit again and extended this crisis. If Brexit somehow gets delivered either now or after a confirmatory referendum, then he goes into the general election in a strong position. If it does go to the confirmatory referendum I think Leave has a better chance of winning with an actual deal on the table than it would have if there was a Leave vs Remain referendum that was no more specific than the original one, or if it was Remain vs No Deal.

Interesting times ahead.

[Harry]

@SirBalon will be relieved to finally have a deal in place

[Tommy]

Good, now fuck off 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Will this deal pass parliament? I don’t think so.

6 hours ago, SirBalon said:

There is no bargaining power when you walk away with nothing!

in normal negotiations you keep what you have (you know, that thing called the "status quo"), in this case you lose what you had and are left in the wilderness.

Now be careful on what you argue regarding that shit about WTO Terms which doesn't exist!

The EU always had most of the leverage with Brexit. So I wouldn’t take people too seriously when they blame anyone else with the poor hand we were dealt.

[SirBalon]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

@SirBalon will be relieved to finally have a deal in place

The deal is a terrible one, worse than May’s Deal. It’s all over the place and for those that care about the Union, it would signify the end of this without a shadow of a doubt.

It won’t go through, it won’t be accepted by Parliament on many levels especially on the fact workers rights go out of the window where Labour are concerned. But we could go on and on here especially on the Northern Ireland issue.

Junker has said the EU won’t grant an extension were the Commons to vote it down but this is bullshit. An extension is already there in principle but what they’re doing with that statement os double barrelled in the sense that with that their early showing that the EU have shown that it’s not and never has been them why Brexit hasn’t been executed. There has never been any of that shit about needling to have some sort if weapon like No Deal to make a hard bargaining chip as the EU although not wanting a No Deal, it’s the UK who would stand to come out of that situation in devastation and not the EU even if it would inevitably affect them.

This is putting pressure on British Parliament to either decide that they really want to leave or the only option that will permit an extension would be a referendum with REMAIN and now JOHNSON’S DEAL. That’s it now! No more faffing around!

This country is a fucking embarrassment right now.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Will this deal pass parliament? I don’t think so.

The EU always had most of the leverage with Brexit. So I wouldn’t take people too seriously when they blame anyone else with the poor hand we were dealt.

Of course the EU always had most of the leverage. They’re the actual EU for god sake. They’re the ones this is all about without any of it ever having been their fault. In the end, after over 3 years the question is fucking why? Now that we know we always had our sovereignty, that nobody controlled absolutely anything, that were were a big part of every single regulation that defends us as people against those that would take advantage for their own financial benefit... What fucking for?

Rant over!

Simple...

We’re the ones that voted to leave not them us. They hold the cards but they hold them under the fundamental rules of the game, the rules we actually had more than any other EU country in creating. 

[Inverted]

Before the referendum nobody cared about the EU besides a small cabal of Tory MPs, financiers and major media-owners. The referendum artificially inflated it into an issue, and so the fault lies with Cameron and the Tory party. 

And it has worked perfectly to their advantage because we have spent 3 years arguing about Brexit and not about anything of any substance about fixing the country. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Inverted

[God is Haaland]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Will this deal pass parliament? I don’t think so.

Even if it does... Will there be enough time to ratify it?

[RandoEFC+]

54 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Before the referendum nobody cared about the EU besides a small cabal of Tory MPs, financiers and major media-owners. The referendum artificially inflated it into an issue, and so the fault lies with Cameron and the Tory party. 

And it has worked perfectly to their advantage because we have spent 3 years arguing about Brexit and not about anything of any substance about fixing the country. 

Its particularly amusing hearing Johnson go on about getting Brexit out of the way so that they can focus on schools and police and health as if the Conservative party aren't the reason these sectors need sorting out and as if they haven't been in power for the last ten years to do so, and as if he himself isn't one of the primary reasons for selling a fake Brexit in the referendum that has led to three years of absolute chaos in parliament.

[SirBalon]

This is real.... Led By Donkeys has actually managed this coup on the walls of Parliament. But the best bit is what he has put on there...

 

[Fairy In Boots]

On 17/10/2019 at 08:21, SirBalon said:

There is no bargaining power when you walk away with nothing!

in normal negotiations you keep what you have (you know, that thing called the "status quo"), in this case you lose what you had and are left in the wilderness.

Now be careful on what you argue regarding that shit about WTO Terms which doesn't exist!

Lol just lol.  

On 17/10/2019 at 14:26, Dr. Gonzo said:

Will this deal pass parliament? I don’t think so.

The EU always had most of the leverage with Brexit. So I wouldn’t take people too seriously when they blame anyone else with the poor hand we were dealt.

It won’t pass Parliament as the majority don’t want to leave and the oppourtunitg yo rubbish this deal and campaign for a second referendum. 

Its all smoke and mirrors anyway because this is election positioning from Boris. 

Tories will say, look we had a deal, Labour, Lib dems SNP walked away and forced the extension. Give us a majority and we’ll get this deal agreed and leave by the end of the extension. 

The damage was by extended it without looking like seriously trying to leave risks the Brexit party chomping into Tory votes. 

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Fairy In Boots

[Inverted]

On 12/10/2019 at 20:05, BartraPique1932 said:

xoxo

It's weird seeing him speak English, after spending so much time watching him to practice my German. 

[SirBalon]

It’ll be close, tight, but it’ll pass with Labour enabling it even though it goes completely against their dogma as an ideological group. Some of them have been shouting in recent weeks; “WE’RE NEITHER REMAINERS OR LEAVERS, WE’RE SOCIALISTS”. Yeah, pull the other one. 

The DUP won’t vote for it because it leaves them in the EU and that’s against their Unionist beliefs and that leaves the Labour Party as the deciding factor. Their are some real scum in there like Howey and Kinnock. It’ll pass narrowly but this won’t be the end of it. We will continue to fight!