Andrew Tate

[Harry]

I'd never heard of Andrew Tate until he made a silly video message to Greta thunberg, but I've come to realise quite a few guys I know hold a high opinion of him. 

He's seen as an inspirational figure to some groups of men and seems to put forward a strong message of "stop moping, get up off the couch and go to the gym" and he would have people believe he's being persecuted for that, and because he's made money in the porn industry.

But he was charged in June with counts of rape, human trafficking and forming an organised criminal group and will go to trial towards the end of the year. And there are more charges still being investigated including human trafficking of minors which are likely to result in a further round of indictments and legal cases.

Do you like this guy, or hate him, or something in between?

[Stan]

Hate the cunt. 

He's helped develop a culture of misogyny and toxic masculinity, and allowed his followers to believe that there are right ways to treat people (other women) in a very degrading way.

Hope the book gets thrown at him in every way possible. 

[Whiskey]

I don't know enough about him, but what little I have heard/read he seems to be everything you wouldn't want a person to be. 

Not surprised that he has a massive following considering the extreme views and divide in the world at the moment.

[Danny]

He’s a gimp and so are the people that follow him

[Tommy]

Everyone who idolises or likes him need their head checked. Dude's a sociopath with a lot of issues. He basically moved to Romania so he can continue to rape women, and he even bragged about it. I mean come on. 

[nudge]

He's a narcissistic cunt who preys on the most vulnerable, insecure, desperate people, regardless if it's the women he abuses or the men he brainwashes.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Whiskey said:

I don't know enough about him, but what little I have heard/read he seems to be everything you wouldn't want a person to be. 

Not surprised that he has a massive following considering the extreme views and divide in the world at the moment.

He seems to appeal to a lot of people that like Jordan Peterson, but he's so massively different from Peterson that it surprises me they seem to have the same audience.

[Harry]

42 minutes ago, nudge said:

He's a narcissistic cunt who preys on the most vulnerable, insecure, desperate people, regardless if it's the women he abuses or the men he brainwashes.

Succinct a.f!

I feel sorry for the men too tbh. Many men feel that some of the impacts major social shifts are having on them are being glossed over and minimised (for the greater good), and they're hurting and they don't know how to express it. The fact they don't see it being discussed in more mainstream sources leads them to more unconventional ones, and waiting in the wings are grifters like Tate to cash in on their grievance.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Everyone who idolises or likes him need their head checked. Dude's a sociopath with a lot of issues. He basically moved to Romania so he can continue to rape women, and he even bragged about it. I mean come on. 

Yeah it doesn't really add up that he moved to Romania because he "just fell in love with the place".

[Mel81x+]

Found out about him. Opened profile. Hit Block button. Peace has been restored to my timeline.

[nudge]

21 minutes ago, Harry said:

Succinct a.f!

I feel sorry for the men too tbh. Many men feel that some of the impacts major social shifts are having on them are being glossed over and minimised (for the greater good), and they're hurting and they don't know how to express it. The fact they don't see it being discussed in more mainstream sources leads them to more unconventional ones, and waiting in the wings are grifters like Tate to cash in on their grievance.

I feel sorry for anyone who struggles and is being manipulated and taken advantage of, irrespective of their sex. There's too much division in society already as it is. 

[Cicero]

He is the cult leader that has created this new wave of individuals that label themselves as high value men when in reality they are misogynists incels who try to justify women not wanting them as certain biological characteristics when in reality they are just assholes to women. They're everywhere. The shit that comes out of their mouth is appalling. 

 

[Dan+]

He's a massive mixed bag. Says some dreadful things but speaks some truth as well.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Dan said:

He's a massive mixed bag. Says some dreadful things but speaks some truth as well.

What truth? 

[Dan+]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

What truth? 

I think his general point about 'the matrix' is correct even if the wording is a bit cringe. Essentially that people are indoctrinated from a young age into such a restrictive lifestyle that keeps you down - I'm not endorsing everything he's said and done and it's pretty obvious he has some skeletons in his closet but he's said some things in longer interviews that I've found very hard to argue with. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

He seems to appeal to a lot of people that like Jordan Peterson, but he's so massively different from Peterson that it surprises me they seem to have the same audience.

They're pretty similar tbf. They're misogynists trying to sell their own brand of masculinity to people that are sad, lonely, angry, etc.

Jordan Peterson's a pseudo-intellectual that uses common sense and logic for a bit to try to sucker people into following him final points which are very far removed from common sense and logic. He's been pretty good about short little social media clips that make him sound like he's giving fairly decent advice, to sucker people into watching other longer videos he has where he just goes full blown incel weirdo.

Andrew Tate's just a different flavour of the same sort of ideology, just for superficial people rather than people who need to be convinced of the intellectual merits of an argument. The people who think "well this guy's rich, gets girls, drives a bugati - he knows how to live a good life." He targets the lonely and the angry and pushes a warped view of the world. Women are for sex and entertainment, the weak are meant to be exploited and taken advantage of. Very primal caveman sort of misogyny.

They're both absolute fucking losers. I think people that like either of them need therapy.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They're pretty similar tbf. They're misogynists trying to sell their own brand of masculinity to people that are sad, lonely, angry, etc.

Jordan Peterson's a pseudo-intellectual that uses common sense and logic for a bit to try to sucker people into following him final points which are very far removed from common sense and logic. He's been pretty good about short little social media clips that make him sound like he's giving fairly decent advice, to sucker people into watching other longer videos he has where he just goes full blown incel weirdo.

Andrew Tate's just a different flavour of the same sort of ideology, just for superficial people rather than people who need to be convinced of the intellectual merits of an argument. The people who think "well this guy's rich, gets girls, drives a bugati - he knows how to live a good life." He targets the lonely and the angry and pushes a warped view of the world. Women are for sex and entertainment, the weak are meant to be exploited and taken advantage of. Very primal caveman sort of misogyny.

They're both absolute fucking losers. I think people that like either of them need therapy.

'Clean your room' became 'cultural-marxists will cancel you' very fast.

[Spike]

Tate and Petersen offer very basic advice (exercise, clean your room, and so on) and then extrapolate it to sexism, misogyny, and racism. Any wisdom they offer can found in just about any self-help book, read Tony Robinson instead maybe. These sort of people prey on disenfranchised young men that have no positive role models or outlets for their sexuality and masculinity.  Tate and Petersen branch out into fascist territory with their weird conservative values mixed with conspiracy theories (the good old days versus the people ruining them) and they've created rabbitholes for men to fall into some very concerning political activism.

[Dr. Gonzo]

53 minutes ago, Spike said:

'Clean your room' became 'cultural-marxists will cancel you' very fast.

He's proof if you speak quickly enough and throw enough psychology buzzwords enough, nobody calls you out on your bullshit or even asks you to define "cultural marxism." The thing I hate the most about Peterson is the way he hinds behind poorly (or incorrectly) explained psychological jargon to make his points. Real experts on psychology can explain things in regular plain English to people not familiar with these terms.

He doesn't explain these things, half-explains them, or misrepresents what they mean because explaining things in regular English would undermine (if not discredit entirely) his points.

Andrew Tate's just a toxic version of Tony Robinson as you say. His surface level advice on self-improvement is fine. It's the weird toxic bullshit he then turns to after making these points that makes him a complete dickhead. Also the whole sex-slavery & human trafficking shite make him an irredeemable cunt.

[Spike]

26 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He's proof if you speak quickly enough and throw enough psychology buzzwords enough, nobody calls you out on your bullshit or even asks you to define "cultural marxism." The thing I hate the most about Peterson is the way he hinds behind poorly (or incorrectly) explained psychological jargon to make his points. Real experts on psychology can explain things in regular plain English to people not familiar with these terms.

He doesn't explain these things, half-explains them, or misrepresents what they mean because explaining things in regular English would undermine (if not discredit entirely) his points.

Andrew Tate's just a toxic version of Tony Robinson as you say. His surface level advice on self-improvement is fine. It's the weird toxic bullshit he then turns to after making these points that makes him a complete dickhead. Also the whole sex-slavery & human trafficking shite make him an irredeemable cunt.

Cultural-Marxism is also a Nazi concept pertaining to anti-semitism and anti-communism.  It is shocking that he uses that term.

[Harry]

8 hours ago, nudge said:

I feel sorry for anyone who struggles and is being manipulated and taken advantage of, irrespective of their sex. There's too much division in society already as it is. 

Of course. It goes without saying that the women being exploited deserve massive emmpathy. But the men are often dismissed as angry scumbags

[Harry]

52 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He's proof if you speak quickly enough and throw enough psychology buzzwords enough, nobody calls you out on your bullshit or even asks you to define "cultural marxism." The thing I hate the most about Peterson is the way he hinds behind poorly (or incorrectly) explained psychological jargon to make his points. Real experts on psychology can explain things in regular plain English to people not familiar with these terms.

He doesn't explain these things, half-explains them, or misrepresents what they mean because explaining things in regular English would undermine (if not discredit entirely) his points.

Andrew Tate's just a toxic version of Tony Robinson as you say. His surface level advice on self-improvement is fine. It's the weird toxic bullshit he then turns to after making these points that makes him a complete dickhead. Also the whole sex-slavery & human trafficking shite make him an irredeemable cunt.

I think the biggest strength he has in getting people's attention is the extent to which he's been branded public enemy number 1 by much of the left, and is almost too controversial to be included in mainstream media discourse. This leads certain types of people to seek him out. With the alt right now they are so geared towards contrarianism you can pretty much control them by reverse psychology. 

[Harry]

3 hours ago, Dan said:

I think his general point about 'the matrix' is correct even if the wording is a bit cringe. Essentially that people are indoctrinated from a young age into such a restrictive lifestyle that keeps you down - I'm not endorsing everything he's said and done and it's pretty obvious he has some skeletons in his closet but he's said some things in longer interviews that I've found very hard to argue with. 

Yeah I think that's a fair call as well. 

I watched that Tucker Carlson interview and it was packed to the eyeballs with lies about his criminal cases (and hypocrisy with regards to him being the antithesis of much of what he espouses) but he also does say some things that would resonate with many people frustrated by the lack of nuance in mainstream discourse.

[Spike]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yeah I think that's a fair call as well. 

I watched that Tucker Carlson interview and it was packed to the eyeballs with lies about his criminal cases (and hypocrisy with regards to him being the antithesis of much of what he espouses) but he also does say some things that would resonate with many people frustrated by the lack of nuance in mainstream discourse.

There is plenty of nuance in mainstream discourse. Just read Chomsky or someone.

[Spike]

In fact Tate's 'the Matrix' ramblings is just an idiot's version of 'Manufacturing Consent' by Noam Chomsky.