Premier League 2023/24 Gameweek 7 - 30th Sept-3rd Oct, 2023

[Stan]

Klopp's says a replay of the game 'would be the right thing'

[LFCMike]

14 minutes ago, Stan said:

Klopp's says a replay of the game 'would be the right thing'

And also acknowledged that it won't happen

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

And also acknowledged that it won't happen

Fair enough, just saw a tweet from Daniel Storey and it only mentioned the first bit. 

[Stan]

I've just seen that he said 'something like that has never happened' too.

Which is wrong. Brentford had a goal awarded against Arsenal after VAR officials forgot to draw the lines last season (?). 

Goalline technology failed Bournemouth against Villa (think they were the teams) - directly impacting the survival/relegation of both clubs.

 

Where were the calls to replay those games?

[LFCMike]

He's merely keeping the issue in the spotlight heading into the weekend. He's not demanded a replay, just given his thoughts on what should happen and then said it won't happen in the same sentence. Everyone is going to keep talking about the sensationalist 'Klopp demands replay' headlines for a bit longer now

Edited October 4, 2023 by LFCMike

[Dr. Gonzo]

I disagree with Klopp but if him saying this puts pressure on the refs to be less shit then I’m all for it.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Fair enough, just saw a tweet from Daniel Storey and it only mentioned the first bit. 

It’s definitely a statement the media’s going to run with without giving people the full context of what he said.

[Danny]

Replaying the game is a hilariously bad solution

[Stan]

22 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

He's merely keeping the issue in the spotlight heading into the weekend. He's not demanded a replay, just given his thoughts on what should happen and then said it won't happen in the same sentence. Everyone is going to keep talking about the sensationalist 'Klopp demands replay' headlines for a bit longer now

Just in time to get a favourable decision against Brighton

 

He hasn't demanded a replay, true. But he does think one should be played, just realistic enough to realise it won't happen. Surely if he didn't want any 'sensationalist' talk of a replay to rumble on, he'd just tell everyone to move on and that you can't change the past, and focus on making sure officials get decisions right in future?

[Dr. Gonzo]

10 minutes ago, Stan said:

Just in time to get a favourable decision against Brighton

 

He hasn't demanded a replay, true. But he does think one should be played, just realistic enough to realise it won't happen. Surely if he didn't want any 'sensationalist' talk of a replay to rumble on, he'd just tell everyone to move on and that you can't change the past, and focus on making sure officials get decisions right in future?

I think he does want to be sensationalist without doing what he did to Tierney. He’s learned you can’t treat refs that way, even though respect is meant to be earned, so you can say the “respect the refs” campaign is working as intended.

In both of his statements about this, he’s gone out of his way to say things like “people make mistakes” and “they didn’t mean to make mistakes” - but I think he still very much wants to put pressure on the refs because that’s what managers do.

Tbh though I’m not sure making an insane statement like that with the media just waiting to run away with stupid quotes is the best way to have approached it. Although in fairness I’d be calling for sackings and I think recent history shows that kind of direct aggressiveness at the officials just makes them defensive.

But I think he’s right to keep the pressure up otherwise it’s got the risk of going in the way of the “we’re clamping down on the waving of imaginary yellows” at the beginning of the season… only for that to be forgotten by week 2.

[Gunnersaurus]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

I've just seen that he said 'something like that has never happened' too.

Which is wrong. Brentford had a goal awarded against Arsenal after VAR officials forgot to draw the lines last season (?). 

Goalline technology failed Bournemouth against Villa (think they were the teams) - directly impacting the survival/relegation of both clubs.

 

Where were the calls to replay those games?

He didn't forget to draw the lines in the arsenal game. He just lost track as players went offside to onside back to offside. Even though it was against arsenal I would admit it wasn't as bad an error. I and I think there was some call to replay it but not as vocal. 

Looking at it when was the goal scored? At what minute? It was in between spurs first and Liverpool equaliser wasn't it?  Liverpool equalised late in the first half. I'm not sure if they would have been pushing forward so much if the goal had stood. It might not have affected it much. 

Liverpool have had decisions go their way. They've had more premier league penalties than man utd. Stop making out you are so hard done by all the time 

[Redcanuck]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

Klopp's says a replay of the game 'would be the right thing'

Should never happen.  Every club in the league would be eligible to have a least one game this season replayed.  

[Stan]

20 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

He didn't forget to draw the lines in the arsenal game. He just lost track as players went offside to onside back to offside. Even though it was against arsenal I would admit it wasn't as bad an error. I and I think there was some call to replay it but not as vocal. 

The lines weren't drawn. It's protocol I thought to draw the lines. If he lost track that's on him, and the ownership/responsibility of that mistake is on him. 

It was just as bad an error as it led to a goal being ruled out unnecessarily so. 

 

21 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

Looking at it when was the goal scored? At what minute? It was in between spurs first and Liverpool equaliser wasn't it?  Liverpool equalised late in the first half. I'm not sure if they would have been pushing forward so much if the goal had stood. It might not have affected it much. 

Liverpool have had decisions go their way. They've had more premier league penalties than man utd. Stop making out you are so hard done by all the time 

The goal was before Spurs scored their first. Just a couple of minutes before. 

[Gunnersaurus]

18 minutes ago, Stan said:

The lines weren't drawn. It's protocol I thought to draw the lines. If he lost track that's on him, and the ownership/responsibility of that mistake is on him. 

It was just as bad an error as it led to a goal being ruled out unnecessarily so. 

 

The goal was before Spurs scored their first. Just a couple of minutes before. 

I dont know if they  draw them for every goal. He didn't draw them because they're was a potential offside in the build up which turned out to be on side. Then it went into an offside position and he didn't check that one. I think there may have been a potential handball as well which was cleared so there was a lot more going on.  The Liverpool goal was a simple on or offside so there was less to keep track of. So it was a worse mistake I think.

Was the Liverpool disallowed goal before or after the sending of?

[Stan]

Just now, Gunnersaurus said:

I dont know if they  draw them for every goal. He didn't draw them because they're was a potential offside in the build up which turned out to be on side. Then it went into an offside position and he didn't check that one. I think there may have been a potential handball as well which was cleared so there was a lot more going on.  The Liverpool goal was a simple on or offside so there was less to keep track of. So it was a worse mistake I think.

Was the Liverpool disallowed goal before or after the sending of?

After the 1st red card.

If there's some kind of onside/offside decision the lines should be drawn as every goal gets checked by VAR regardless. He didn't check it because of incompetence/pressure/laziness/complacency/lack of concentration (or all of these). 

[Gunnersaurus]

6 minutes ago, Stan said:

After the 1st red card.

If there's some kind of onside/offside decision the lines should be drawn as every goal gets checked by VAR regardless. He didn't check it because of incompetence/pressure/laziness/complacency/lack of concentration (or all of these). 

He probably lost focus. Which happens to everyone. 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Gunnersaurus said:

He probably lost focus. Which happens to everyone. 

Good job the Assistant VARs are there to help, then.

 

Oh wait...

[Gunnersaurus]

Just now, Stan said:

Good job the Assistant VARs are there to help, then.

 

Oh wait...

OK Stan whatever you say. I forgot you never make mistakes 

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

OK Stan whatever you say. I forgot you never make mistakes 

I'm going to start calling you Mary because you're quite contrary .

Of course I make mistakes. But I'll own them and accept them. And try not to make the same ones again.

VAR officials (collectively) seem to be consistently making errors. Which makes me think their training isn't adequate enough or their seniors aren't taking enough responsibility either. Or they don't have the right structure in place to ease the pressure on the officials involved.

But thanks Gunnersaurus. Whatever you say. Welcome back.

[Gunnersaurus]

8 minutes ago, Stan said:

I'm going to start calling you Mary because you're quite contrary .

Of course I make mistakes. But I'll own them and accept them. And try not to make the same ones again.

VAR officials (collectively) seem to be consistently making errors. Which makes me think their training isn't adequate enough or their seniors aren't taking enough responsibility either. Or they don't have the right structure in place to ease the pressure on the officials involved.

But thanks Gunnersaurus. Whatever you say. Welcome back.

They've literally said it was a bad error. And they've been trying to improve it for the last 4 years. And the errors aren't as often as some people make out as a lot of them are open to interpretation. I've said myself I don't think the system I ideal.  I think with penalties and red cards they should be allowed to say what they think is more likely, not have to be certain as I think you would get more decisions right that way. And I don't think it would slow down the game to much. However with goals I think it should only be disaload for clear and obvious errors as it would slow the game down to much and you would loose that euphoria of goals being scored. Var hasn't worked as well as I thought it would. But I'm still aware of fact that you can't just get anyone to do their job. They still have to have a lot of training. I'm saying you have said that but some have. I'm perfectly fine with them receiving critism. I criticised them last night in our game. But I still acknowledge that they know more than me and that the people who run referee organisations know more than me about how how to run organisations. I don't pretend these mistakes are mistakes that no reasonable person would make 

[Rick]

1 hour ago, Gunnersaurus said:

OK Stan whatever you say. I forgot you never make mistakes 

I knew what your schtick was going to be when I saw you had replied. You love being the contrarian. Somebody could say “water is wet” and you’d have an argument against it. 
 

It’s all well and good saying we all make mistakes, you’re absolutely right about that. However, how the fuck have numerous people made so many at the same time? They even realised their mistake then made another on top of that by not informing the referee! How can you really sit there and defend any of them by chalking it up to a “we all make mistakes” situation. Must be on the wind up. 

[MUFC]

On 02/10/2023 at 21:58, Stan said:

United are crap. 

[Reluctant Striker]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

I've just seen that he said 'something like that has never happened' too.

Which is wrong. Brentford had a goal awarded against Arsenal after VAR officials forgot to draw the lines last season (?). 

Goalline technology failed Bournemouth against Villa (think they were the teams) - directly impacting the survival/relegation of both clubs.

 

Where were the calls to replay those games?

I've just looked back into the Villa one. I had forgot some of the detail. It was Villa vs Sheffield United. I have a feeling it may have been the 1st of the no fans Covid restart in 2019/20 season. The season Bournemouth went down. Very narrowly.

It was total cringe as a Villa fan, seeing the keeper & ball, clearly in the side netting, behind the post. Yet no goal being given. And 'getting' a 0-0 draw.

There were still 9 games left.

Villa still had to win 2 & draw 2 of the last 4 games, to stay up.

But the final table was Villa 17th, 35 points, GD -26

Bournemouth 18th, 34 points, GD -25

So, there was still lots of football to play, but it was pointed at again at the end. It felt total cringe again. And I think there was talk of legal action, but it seemed to fade.

[RandoEFC+]

22 hours ago, Stan said:

Just in time to get a favourable decision against Brighton

 

Saw someone tweet that Brighton are going to be the first team in Premier League history to get a player sent off during the warm up .

The thing is, I don't think the referees are really scared of managers anymore, there was probably a time when the likes of Ferguson and Wenger could influence officials but now I genuinely think that they just feel above reproach because of the lack of accountability. The problem is now, though, that if Liverpool do get a penalty or offside or something in their favour against Brighton, people will be saying "big clubs intimidating the referees again" and "Brighton paying the price for Klopp's tantrums about the last game", even if it's clearly the correct decision, and then this tedious point-scoring and whataboutery will persist for another week.