El Profesor Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kowabunga said: A war and a US post-colonial puppet regime would be a bad scenario for South America. I heard the Venezuelan army is rather well paid, so, if it's true, an overthrow wouldn't be clean at all, but the contrary, rather bloody, and I don't envision Colombia really wanting a long conflict at their vicinity. In a better timeline Brazil could be already leading the continent towards bigger things. I've wondered about what role in Foreign Affairs a radical right wing presidency in Brazil could took. Rather bleak and depressing prospect, I think. A significant number of soldier and officials are deserting the army, and joining the exodus to Colombia and Brazil. It´s hard to envision a Vietnam like resistence in Venezuela, like Diosdado promissed. Maduro is no Ho Chi Minh, Diosdado is no Giap. The real danger is a civil war ecloding in the power vacumn, with different sectors of venezuelan society trying to position themselves in a position where they´re the ones who´ll gain the favor of the americans. But I agree, a war would be terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God is Haaland Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 7/31/2017 at 10:09, Harvsky said: Fishing? Peru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserker Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 10 hours ago, El Profesor said: More on: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-04/us-official-trump-pressed-aides-about-venezuela-invasion In theory, the population would support the invasion and the Maduro regime would be easily toppled. At this point, he´s highly unpopular. But wars are always unpredictable and all scenarios must be considered. After all the United States proved they´re pretty bad at the nation building business in Iraq and Lybia, and creating power vacumn is always dangerous. Different sections of venezuelan could compete to gain power and a civil war could eclode simultaneously. There is too the possible scenario of venezuelan and cuban militias retreating to the Amazon forest and the conflict could drag on for years, causing instability in the whole region. There aren´t good solutions when it comes to Venezuela, but I sure hope a war is avoided. Colombia would definitely support an invasion, meanwhile Brazil is a mistery. Trump pressed Temer´s government to give a position, but the brazilian government has been evasive so far. Pence visited Brazil last week and Venezuela was certainly a topic of conversation. Like I´ve discussed with @Kowabunga, if Bolsonaro is elected on October, it makes a venezuelan conflict more probable. He will push hard for a alliance with the United State. I really hope it doesn't happen, Macri would perhaps support it i think (although here there is no compulsory conscription, so it wouldn't directly affect me) but my plan for the near future is to spend 6 months here and 6 months in a more warm place to avoid winter, and Venezuela was prime choice so if this were to happen it would leave Brazil as the only choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just saw this map and wanted to share it to kind of give you an idea of the situation in the country. You have no idea how many Venezuelans I've met here since 2017. Taxi drivers, at college etc. Peruvians aren't very happy with how the Venezuelans are behaving either but who could blame them when all they are doing is trying to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 That picture is also outdated. Apparently here are some of the figures. Peru has reached about 600,000 Chile has reached about 149,000 Argentina has reached about 100,000 Ecuador has reached about 200,000 And Colombia has almost 1 million now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Profesor Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 On 21/01/2019 at 07:34, Blue said: That picture is also outdated. Apparently here are some of the figures. Peru has reached about 600,000 Chile has reached about 149,000 Argentina has reached about 100,000 Ecuador has reached about 200,000 And Colombia has almost 1 million now. Chavismo transformed venezuelans into the low class of south american. It´s a humanitarian disaster. Today, the United States, Brazil and many other nations have recognized Juan Guaidó as the legitimate president of Venezuela. Hopefully, this is beginning of the end for Maduro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, El Profesor said: Chavismo transformed venezuelans into the low class of south american. It´s a humanitarian disaster. Today, the United States, Brazil and many other nations have recognized Juan Guaidó as the legitimate president of Venezuela. Hopefully, this is beginning of the end for Maduro. We went through a very similar time when Velasco was our president in the 70's. Very coincidentally, Hugo Chavez trained in Peru, and looked up to Velasco. It was never never this bad as Venezuela though, and things started to get better when Fujimori was our president, even though he was also corrupt and had a lot of faults Edited January 23, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Whatever you make of the domestic scene the interference of the USA, or any other foreign agent, is never, ever justified here and is cynically motivated. Any change must come from within. It seems whenever a politician that the USA and global capitalists do not like wins an election, the election is deemed 'illegitimate', it's a brazen attempt at illegally toppling governments and has been going on for decades. Russia speaking sense on the issue. Edited January 25, 2019 by The Artful Dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Populist left-wing government that fiddles with elections but tolerates large amounts of opposition: completely illegitimate. 100 years of totalitarian, religious fundamentalist rule by one family, exporting terrorism around the globe: trusted ally. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Inverted said: Populist left-wing government that fiddles with elections but tolerates large amounts of opposition: completely illegitimate. 100 years of totalitarian, religious fundamentalist rule by one family, exporting terrorism around the globe: trusted ally. I agree with the sentiment, but Maduro is also fucking scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 He seems deeply unpleasant, definitely. The 'cause' for intervention is in no way motivated by morality and never is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I agree with the sentiment, but Maduro is also fucking scum. Of course, and even Chavez was a waster for the most part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowabunga Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) Sorry, but many people are losing the principle of reality, taking lightly the recognition of the President of Venezuela. Countries do not recognise powerless actors for a reason. Countries recognise ''de facto'' somethings, not "de facto" nothings. You may deem a ruler the devil on Earth, you may ask for elections but regardless of how illegitimate he/she is, in the end you will adhere to acknowledging who is the "de facto" ruler. I am not able to ascertain what the outcome of this case will be in terms of regime change, but in the long run, I am pretty positive people will lament these diplomatic innovations in the age of post-truth. Edited January 27, 2019 by Kowabunga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 31/07/2017 at 21:26, Harvsky said: Smug is what most of the coverage is. Particularly on social media and in the shittier right wing rags. What is happening is a sad story, not really a time for political point scoring and a gleeful haha. Hahahahahaha Fuck off. Imagine using the graves of thousands of fresh dead to dodge a political issue. You're no better than the pro gun mob in the US who whenever there's a mass shooting say 'now is a time for prayer and thought, not finger pointing' Fucking scum. People are dying. An evil socialist dictatorship is to blame. Say it, and the truth will set you free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowabunga Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Hahahahahaha Fuck off. Imagine using the graves of thousands of fresh dead to dodge a political issue. You're no better than the pro gun mob in the US who whenever there's a mass shooting say 'now is a time for prayer and thought, not finger pointing' Fucking scum. People are dying. An evil socialist dictatorship is to blame. Say it, and the truth will set you free. Maduro may fuck off. But if 15 years from now, big powers cause crisis after crisis in third countries (maybe yours!) just by powering powerless buffoons (de facto nobodies) through social media ruckus because they are the legitimate whatnot, remember people warned you. In international relations countries "recognise" states (structures having at least a partial control over a territory), not "governments". When it comes to "recognition", countries do not enter in the issue of the head of state deriving his/her power from the mandate of the masses, from a coup or from a strange woman lying in a pond distributing swords in a farcical aquatic ceremony. The "recognition" of a State (simply an application of a principle of reality) is also independent from wanting regime change, be it with the head of that State commiting seppuku, be it by frying that state with sanctions, or if you get along with hawkish plans be it by financing terrorist contras or just by bombing the shit out of 'em. All in all, the "recognition" is not a question of morality. Easening regime change through shortcuts based on post-truth may look cheap but it can only bring more destabilization to the world. This is not a good innovation. The order matters. It makes for a worse timeline. Bolton is a provocateur. Edited January 29, 2019 by Kowabunga 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnisExcubitor Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 @Kowabunga is absolutely spot on. What's happening in Syria is for everyone to see thanks to independent journos like Bartlett. At least in today's times, when there is clear access to fresh information online, such coups should not happen. Anyone who believes that the West is doing this to actually help the locals is daft. And it also goes without saying that Maduro is monster. And even Russians and Chinese who opposing this coup are looking after their interests, just like the West. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 On 28/01/2019 at 22:01, Devil-Dick Willie said: Hahahahahaha Fuck off. Imagine using the graves of thousands of fresh dead to dodge a political issue. You're no better than the pro gun mob in the US who whenever there's a mass shooting say 'now is a time for prayer and thought, not finger pointing' Fucking scum. People are dying. An evil socialist dictatorship is to blame. Say it, and the truth will set you free. There's no need to tell someone to fuck off and call them scum. On your points, you are quoting a post from a year ago. I'm happy to defend my opinion. Fairy admitted himself he was being smug at first. I equated that with what was common in the right wing coverage at the time. Anyone around then will have seen the trend, particularly on social media. Fairy even then admitted he shouldn't be smug, but it is I curiously who is on the end of your wrath. Nowhere did I say we shouldn't have political debate or that we should stop to pray. It was my opinion that at the time the crisis peaked if all someone had to contribute to this was one-up behaviour on their own domestic opponents then they shouldn't bother at all. If you go further down the thread last year you will also see a Ken Livingstone joke. There's no excuse for playing cultural ignorance here, Fairy posted an article about Ken Livingstone defending Maduro so you can see what he is about. After a few members made what could be interpreted as excuses for Maduro I joked that Ken Livingstone had a few accounts on this forum. Still you frame it as if I somehow can't bring myself to say "an evil socialist dictatorship is to blame", I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion from the evidence before you. The errors in your post are the product of rushing in too quick and the tone of fuck off and scum is a mist descending that warrants retraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Harvsky said: There's no need to tell someone to fuck off and call them scum. On your points, you are quoting a post from a year ago. I'm happy to defend my opinion. Fairy admitted himself he was being smug at first. I equated that with what was common in the right wing coverage at the time. Anyone around then will have seen the trend, particularly on social media. Fairy even then admitted he shouldn't be smug, but it is I curiously who is on the end of your wrath. Nowhere did I say we shouldn't have political debate or that we should stop to pray. It was my opinion that at the time the crisis peaked if all someone had to contribute to this was one-up behaviour on their own domestic opponents then they shouldn't bother at all. If you didn't say it outright you heavily insinuated it. Sorry about calling you scum. I stand by my comment that your original comment is exactly the sort of bullshit bullet dodging that the right use after another high school gets blown away by an angry white kid, and the levels of hypocrisy are thus off the fucking charts. And that using the victims in such an event to avoid a political discussion is fucking low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: If you didn't say it outright you heavily insinuated it. Sorry about calling you scum. I stand by my comment that your original comment is exactly the sort of bullshit bullet dodging that the right use after another high school gets blown away by an angry white kid, and the levels of hypocrisy are thus off the fucking charts. And that using the victims in such an event to avoid a political discussion is fucking low. Fair play mate. Maybe it could be interpeted that way but that is not intentional and would be the wrong way to look at it. What was going on and is going on warrants frank and detailed discussion and shouldn't in my opinion be degraded by those who are just looking for nothing other than to gloat. The loss of life or social tragedy is not a pawn and gloating about it is unbecoming. At least in the immediate moment the victims deserve to have their situation treat in the fullest of intellectual examination rather than having a verified twitter account post "Socialism fails again" to get likes and laughs or some other low hanging fruit of a quip. Hence the comment that it is not really the time for that. It might have its use and place but it certainly isn't when minds should be focused on detail. So whilst you see the post as a diversion it is actually about the opposite, it's about mopping up what is being passed as debate when it clearly isn't intellectual at all, rather it's childish. For that reason it is a coincidence that it might look similar to bullet dodging. The important thing to remember is what specifically is the context in which the comment arises. The exact same words can be very different in a different context. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Longest blackout in Venezuela's history is going on right now. Maduro as per usual blaming the Americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-water/desperate-venezuelans-swarm-sewage-drains-in-search-of-water-idUSKBN1QS2SN?utm_source=reddit.com Sounds pretty horrific tbh. Guess a small and corrupt country shouldn't have their economy based around oil exports and only oil exports and use a dictionary definition of socialism as it's blueprint. Edited March 12, 2019 by Dr. Gonzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Profesor Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) The article below is definitely the best one I´ve read about Venezuela. It´s a bit long but it´s well worthwhile the time in order to comprehend what´s going in Venezuela. https://palladiummag.com/2019/03/06/venezuela-an-up-close-look-at-a-nation-in-free-fall/ Edited March 15, 2019 by El Profesor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Attempted Coup in Venezuela today. Looks like the end of Maduro is near. Hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Sounds like something has went awry. Guaido calling for more protests, maybe he didn't get as many military defections as he was planning for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goku de la Boca Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Well, we've started the deportation of many Venezuelans in Peru, just as Chile had done months earlier. Already creating trouble in Ecuador. It is unbelievable what Chavismo has transformed the Venezuelan class into. Truly the fall of a once great and prosperous nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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