Argentina

[6666]

38 minutes ago, Goku de la Boca said:

Absolutely bollocks.

6 our of 8 Argentine kids don't get to eat every day, 150% inflation, the country is poorer than Peru and Chile, something unthinkable 50 years ago.

Milei is a massive nutcase but the other option was literally going to keep driving Argentina into the ground. The man solely responsible for all of Argentina's inflation. The fact he even had any shot at becoming president is shocking.

I feel like you didn't read what I said... I didn't question if the anger is justified. I was making the general point that right wing extremists seem to find it easy to exploit people's anger whereas a progressive politician that also wants change would find it more difficult.

Edited November 20, 2023 by 6666

[Goku de la Boca]

1 minute ago, 6666 said:

I feel like you didn't read what I said... I didn't question if the anger is justified. I was making the general point that right wing extremists seem to find it easy to exploit people's anger whereas a progressive politician that also wants change would find it more difficult.

Fair enough. I do actually agree that sometimes people vote with their hot heads but in Argentina's case, continuing with Kirchnerismo/Peronismo would have been stupid. As much as a nutcase as Milei is, sometimes I do think that the words that come out of a politicians mouth is the least of our concerns. It's more what he can actually do to better the country.

All that being said, the anti-human rights agenda from Milei is concerning, but the country is just so far gone at this point that he was still the smarter choice.

[Cicero]

13 minutes ago, Tommy said:

How can one man be solely responsible for a country's inflation?

He's talking about Peronism. 

1/3 of Argentina's workforce are employed by the country and 80% of them favor Peronism. Add in those that genuinely leached off of the country's generous 62% total expenditure on welfare programs. 

[6666]

This is a wild thread to read. Supporting apartheid, genocide loving Israel isn't a surprise but wanting to create a free market for selling kids just can't be a real idea that he has.

 

[Goku de la Boca]

Just now, 6666 said:

This is a wild thread to read. Supporting apartheid, genocide loving Israel isn't a surprise but wanting to create a free market for selling kids just can't be a real idea that he has.

 

The former is natural given there are more jews than Arabs in Argentina from all backgrounds. The latter I doubt he'll be able to successfully implement, mostly because it'll cause public outrage in both Argentina and the world. He won't be allowed.

He's a nutter like I said. Don't let my comments make you think that he's a saint, he's the furthest thing from that. I just think he was the better option.

[Tommy]

19 minutes ago, 6666 said:

This is a wild thread to read. Supporting apartheid, genocide loving Israel isn't a surprise but wanting to create a free market for selling kids just can't be a real idea that he has.

 

"He says his dead dog Conan speaks to him from the afterlife and advises him on economic policy."

 

They literally elected an insane person as president.

[Cicero]

4 minutes ago, Tommy said:

"He says his dead dog Conan speaks to him from the afterlife and advises him on economic policy."

 

They literally elected an insane person as president.

Son of Sam. 

26 minutes ago, 6666 said:

This is a wild thread to read. Supporting apartheid, genocide loving Israel isn't a surprise but wanting to create a free market for selling kids just can't be a real idea that he has.

 

legalize the sale of children

Surely that is fabricated? 

[Redcanuck]

I think a lot that has been said by Milei and about him is just campaign rhetoric and he has already walked back some of his more crazy suggestions, included what he has said about Healthcare.  The Argentinian economy under the Peronists is a disaster and when somebody throws you a lifeline you just grab it, you don't ask who is handing it to you. The people voted to oust the present government, they wanted things to change, it was a simple choice between more of the same under Massa or try something new with Milei. If it doesn't work they can vote him out next election,  doesnt sound like he can screw things up any more than if they reelected Massa.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Redcanuck

[Goku de la Boca]

1 minute ago, Redcanuck said:

I think a lot that has been said by Milei and about him is just campaign rhetoric and he has already walked back some of his most crazy suggestions, included what he has said about Healthcare.  The Argentinian economy under the Peronists is a disaster and when somebody throws you a lifeline you just grab it, you don't ask who is handing it to you. The people voted to oust the present government, they wanted things to change, it was a simple choice between more of the same under Massa or try something new with Milei. If it doesn't work they can vote him out next election,  doesnt sound like he can screw things up any more than if they reelected Massa.

Agree with everything here, I also believe most of it is a campaign bluff, although not sure how it helps him in many ways to be honest, haha

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Goku de la Boca said:

Absolutely bollocks.

I don't think he's entirely wrong with what he's saying. I imagine partly in reference to how the Tories have governed here with fear-mongering and stoking up division by tapping at the neanderthal-esque element of the far right people's minds. 

So this guy who Argentina have voted in might solve inflation or recover the economy, but what's he actually going to do long-term? He is a nutcase from what I've briefly seen so far and what you've said. So while he's good on one hand, he seems quite damaging on several other fronts. 

While he'll give off the impression he's making people's lives better, is he actually? 

I'd say it speaks volumes of politics in Argentina if the only two options figuratively equated to 'aids or ebola'. It's pretty much what we've had/got in UK. The political system in this country is corrupted as fuck and skewed so heavily to one side. 

[Tommy]

At least if it all goes to shit, he can say that his dead dog ate his homework. 

[Stan]

51 minutes ago, Tommy said:

"He says his dead dog Conan speaks to him from the afterlife and advises him on economic policy."

 

They literally elected an insane person as president.

Anyone who saw Trump as US president:

 

[Honey Honey]

Doesn't he only have 35 of 257 lower chamber seats and 7 of 73 senate seats or is that not right?

@Goku de la Boca @Cicero

Is this not a pointless Presidency rather than a radical one, what do you hear on your end?

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, Cicero said:

To be honest there are a lot of Argentines, my wife's family included, that are absolutely relieved and thrilled of his election.  For the past 30 years poverty in Argentina has gotten worse whilst the debt has increased substantially. A lot of suffering these past two decades and I mean suffering. Country desperately needed ideas to combat this inflation and it isn't surprising at all that Argentina has now pushed to the capitalistic right. The one thing that worries me is what any other country that goes through a complete political shift, which are too many radical changes too soon. 

 

I'm not surprised Argetina's tired of 30 years of economic mismanagement. Having said that a far-right populist libertarian is probably going to swing the pendulum to the opposite extreme.

I'd be worried though if I'm living through economic hell and one of the solutions the new leader has for the struggling poor is "sell your organs to survive" - it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of how he views human life that isn't part of the elite.

[El Profesor]

I understand the anger of the argentinian people. Fernandez completely destroyed the economy.

At the same time, Milei seems more of the same. Argentina already tried liberalism with Menem in the 90s.

Dollarization and privatization has already been done in Argentina and it didn't end well the first time. 

The relationship with Brazil is one to watch here. Milei said he wouldn't trade with Brazil and China, since both countries are governed by leftists, but Brazil and China are their most important trade partners. He will need to back down, if only out of pure pragmatism. 

Having said that, Lula was extremely unwise to use his weight so the Development Bank of Latin America loaned 1 billion dollars to Argentina during the elections. Brazilian government clearly tried to influence the result of the argentinian election. 

 

 

 

[Goku de la Boca]

12 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

I understand the anger of the argentinian people. Fernandez completely destroyed the economy.

At the same time, Milei seems more of the same. Argentina already tried liberalism with Menem in the 90s.

Dollarization and privatization has already been done in Argentina and it didn't end well the first time. 

The relationship with Brazil is one to watch here. Milei said he wouldn't trade with Brazil and China, since both countries are governed by leftists, but Brazil and China are their most important trade partners. He will need to back down, if only out of pure pragmatism. 

Having said that, Lula was extremely unwise to use his weight so the Development Bank of Latin America loaned 1 billion dollars to Argentina during the elections. Brazilian government clearly tried to influence the result of the argentinian election. 

 

 

 

The usual from Lula and the Sao Paulo forum. He loses more than Brazil as a whole in this whole conundrum. 

[Goku de la Boca]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

I don't think he's entirely wrong with what he's saying. I imagine partly in reference to how the Tories have governed here with fear-mongering and stoking up division by tapping at the neanderthal-esque element of the far right people's minds. 

So this guy who Argentina have voted in might solve inflation or recover the economy, but what's he actually going to do long-term? He is a nutcase from what I've briefly seen so far and what you've said. So while he's good on one hand, he seems quite damaging on several other fronts. 

While he'll give off the impression he's making people's lives better, is he actually? 

I'd say it speaks volumes of politics in Argentina if the only two options figuratively equated to 'aids or ebola'. It's pretty much what we've had/got in UK. The political system in this country is corrupted as fuck and skewed so heavily to one side. 

I don't disagree with any of that to be fair. I think he's a step in the right direction, and I say this because I'm also slightly impacted in this living in Peru. The leftists took power here, failed and then we tried to be manipulated into putting Castillo back in power. Same happened in Chile and Colombia, and seeing all of what has happened in Venezuela, Bolivia and Argentina just makes me breathe slightly easier that the left in South America is losing ground.

[Cicero]

16 hours ago, Honey Honey said:

Doesn't he only have 35 of 257 lower chamber seats and 7 of 73 senate seats or is that not right?

@Goku de la Boca @Cicero

Is this not a pointless Presidency rather than a radical one, what do you hear on your end?

I'd say the first 2 years of his presidency will be a bit relaxed. 

[Bluewolf]

I am sure I saw a picture of this bloke holding a chainsaw in the news this morning... 

[Redcanuck]

Just now, Bluewolf said:

I am sure I saw a picture of this bloke holding a chainsaw in the news this morning... 

It is symbolic.  He's going to take a chainsaw to the Bureaucracy.   

[Tommy]

Fucking hell. 

[Cicero]

If he wants to be taken seriously he needs to deliver results. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Fucking hell. 

Tbf that looks more extreme than what his actual plan for reformation of the ministries of Argentina actually is. He's just being an over-the-top populist, because that's what's worked for him - so why wouldn't he. He's trying to demonstrate he will cut down on government waste.

In Argentina there are 18 government ministries, many of which just suck up more money than they provide any public benefit at all. This guy doesn't want to end all government ministries and end all government services, but he wants to cut and consolidate 18 ministries so there are just 7 of the current 18 left. Then he wants to create a new ministry for a total of 8.

The remaining ministries would be: Ministry of the Economy, Ministry of Infrastructure, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Security, Ministry of Justice, Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Internal Affairs, and creating the new Ministry of Human Capitol (which sounds sinister a bit tbh, but it's meant to be governing education, healthcare, and employment).

The thing is... I'm not sure the economic issues of Argentina can come down to squarely reducing government waste. Argentina's got massive debt - does eliminating the central bank and abandoning the peso for the US dollar help them get passed these mountains of debt? When Ecuador and El Salvador did the same thing to bring down inflation (which is out of control in Argentina)... it came with added debt to those countries. And I'm pretty sure Argentina's used the dollar before as their currency and that ended in economic crisis as well.

Argentina's got problems economically. The previous government oversaw these problems, I understand not wanting to let them keep driving the car into the ditch. But I'm not sure this guy has the right ideas to navigate their country to a healthier economy.

[Cicero]

Forgot Ministry of Magic

[Goku de la Boca]

2 hours ago, Tommy said:

Fucking hell. 

Chazz after buying TFF