DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 hours ago, Devil said: Straight red card for anyone who pulls someone's shirt back when being countered in the dying minutes. Nothing worse than needing a goal and you break away and a winger gets praised for taking a booking for a team, disgusting cheating and should be a straight red card. Loved it when Ole clattered Rob Lee though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted February 17, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Stan said: As much as I generally hate the concept of a ESL, I also don't like the fact that teams have been cherry-picked based purely on financial clout, and that it effectively becomes a closed shop with no relegation (if I remember correctly). You're totally right though regarding fans it's directed at - but the solution for them is simple. Just support the next best club that does well in that league. Fairweather fans who won't have an interest in the club they originally supported once they start going down the shitter. The whole concept is totally anti-sport and would make the whole thing completely farcical, as would things such as guaranteeing spots in the Champions League for clubs based on their coefficient, which they will structure in a way that guarantees underachievers in recent years like AC Milan will get in no matter what. Martin Samuel wrote a brilliant article about it once and I agreed with every word: You're right as well, there will eventually become a monopoly at the top of the ESL. Say for example Real Madrid start winning it every year, some 'executive' there will start claiming how the ESL doesn't reward their achievements or whatever and we're faced with new problems. It's a short-termist idea that is pushed by people who want to come into the game, fuck it up, but ultimately profit from it and then leave it again. Too many non-football people are too high up within the sport. It's just sad that the most recent example of an ex-player being powerful in one of these bodies was Platini, who ended up just as corrupt as the rest of them. 7 hours ago, Smiley Culture said: We won’t get a complete breakaway. Though I think we will get a revamped Champions League, quite possibly this ten game one with Swiss chess style fixtures. We’re already moving towards a closed shop elite tournament anyway, IMO. With this third European competition starting next season you could have the elite competition for the handpicked elite and still have two European competitions for the paupers of football. That's what I think will start to happen. I honestly don't see the ESL happening because it's too drastic. What they usually do in football is just gradually make things worse so that the bigger clubs have it easier, whilst the changes aren't quite enough for there to be a big revolt about it. The changes are often subtle - for example a few years ago when they decided the top 4 leagues would all get 4 guaranteed spots rather than 3.5. It's one massively self-fulfilling prophecy as by doing this you almost certainly eliminate the possibility of those 4 leagues ever being overtaken on coefficient either. Another example is the FA Cup 5th round being moved to midweek, something that people will moan about but ultimately just roll over and accept, but in doing that they've freed up a bit more of the calendar. On that note - after this season, nobody should ever take any of these claims about fatigue or winter breaks seriously again. I tend to agree with you. I think a Champions League restructure is coming (which they will no doubt blame COVID for) but a European Super League won't happen for a long time IMO. Edited February 17, 2021 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said: Loved it when Ole clattered Rob Lee though Mate that was so blatant it deserved a five game ban 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Gold 599 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Devil said: Straight red card for anyone who pulls someone's shirt back when being countered in the dying minutes. Nothing worse than needing a goal and you break away and a winger gets praised for taking a booking for a team, disgusting cheating and should be a straight red card. Completely agree, and I wouldn't limit it to the dying minutes either For me, I can't see any reason a deliberate foul to "take one for the team" at any point shouldn't be a sending off offence. The rule refers to "denying a goalscoring opportunity" but what other reason is there to make a foul of that sort than stopping a goal, wherever you are on the pitch? Unfortunately if we did have that rule we'd inevitably get some absolutely ludicrous sendings off as a referee misinterprets a mistimed tackle, but we all regularly see 'tactical' fouls that are tantamount to cheating 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 36 minutes ago, Burning Gold said: Completely agree, and I wouldn't limit it to the dying minutes either For me, I can't see any reason a deliberate foul to "take one for the team" at any point shouldn't be a sending off offence. The rule refers to "denying a goalscoring opportunity" but what other reason is there to make a foul of that sort than stopping a goal, wherever you are on the pitch? Unfortunately if we did have that rule we'd inevitably get some absolutely ludicrous sendings off as a referee misinterprets a mistimed tackle, but we all regularly see 'tactical' fouls that are tantamount to cheating Making it an instant red would end it full stop, especially when you see them digging their feet in and nearly pulling their shirts off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,385 Posted February 17, 2021 Administrator Share Posted February 17, 2021 I'd rather diving/cheating is resolved with red cards first before this tactical fouling issue. Red cards/retrospective punishment will definitely end that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoRoss 800 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, Stan said: I'd rather diving/cheating is resolved with red cards first before this tactical fouling issue. Red cards/retrospective punishment will definitely end that. Scotland has had retrospective two game bans for about a decade now, still have people diving. Although doesn't seem to be an issue as much as in other leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,385 Posted February 17, 2021 Administrator Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, ScoRoss said: Scotland has had retrospective two game bans for about a decade now, still have people diving. Although doesn't seem to be an issue as much as in other leagues. Is it enforced, though? As in, how many players have had the ban given to them retrospectively? I can't remember the last time it happened in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted February 17, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Mpache said: Basically that 1982 World Cup match, where Germany and Austria played a gentlemen agreement and just passed it back and forth the entire game to let Germany go through. Technically that was a Germany win, but I think the point stands as we often see it as a draw anyways. Anyways I still think draws should be split into 1 point but that was an interesting point that was raised to me. I'm sure it would probably have more negatives though. Something that this 48 team World Cup almost ensures will happen in future as well - especially with 16 groups. An absolute disgrace what they've done to the World Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoRoss 800 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Stan said: Is it enforced, though? As in, how many players have had the ban given to them retrospectively? I can't remember the last time it happened in England. Ajeti, from Celtic, just avoided a ban. Honestly, can't remember the last time someone was actually banned (doesn't mean it hasn't happened) but Aberdeen have rarely ventured into the opposition box recently, so definitely haven't had anyone diving... When it was first introduced, there was a wave of bans handed out. I remember Aberdeen's Peter Pawlett and Sone Aluko (then at Rangers being some of the first). It is quite different in Scotland though, with no where near the same amount of cameras at a match (sometimes you'd be lucky to have over two), so getting a conclusive angle is more difficult than it would be elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted February 17, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted February 17, 2021 We had two game bans for diving about three years ago, they banned I think two players (was Mirallas one of them?) for two games and that ended up being that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoRoss 800 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 On a similar note, this was called a dive in the game. And then retrospectively not rescinded... So who knows what is and what isn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Better players who are dirty players get away with less criticism than average players. Roy Keane was a thug but because he was a man utd legend he got away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) Expected Goals is an interesting stat and the primary issue people have with it is the name. It’s literally just a more useful version of the shots taken stat, and it’s more useful because it reflects how people already think about the game - everyone uses and understands the phrase “he should score from there”. But people get pissed off by it, because it makes it sound like you’re saying a team deserved a different result. If it was called something less loaded like “shot power” or “shot weight” it would probably be much more easily accepted. Edited March 10, 2021 by Inverted 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, Inverted said: Expected Goals is an interesting stat and the primary issue people have with it is the name. It’s literally just a more useful version of the shots taken stat, and it’s more useful because it reflects how people already think about the game - everyone uses and understands the phrase “he should score from there”. But people get pissed off by it, because it makes it sound like you’re saying a team deserved a different result. If it was called something less loaded like “shot power” or “shot weight” it would probably be much more easily accepted. 100% agreed. It's a good stat to have in the modern day. Same with xA. I get so frustrated when a player I like to watch makes a good pass, then his player misses the shot. Without the low assist number, people take it in as how the assister did badly, when really his pass was sensational and not finished by his teammate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Not sure how unpopular this is but here we go. Keepers are always regarded as best when they reach their old age, but I think that same opinion should apply to CB's. The best and most mature tournament performances I can think of from CB's were over 30, and they weren't as good prior to that. Let's take a look. Diego Godin - I didn't like him until Simeone kicked in. He just kept getting better with age. He was about 28-31 when he was key in those runs with Atletico Madrid from 2014-2017. Mario Yepes - The 2nd best CB in the 2014 World Cup at around 37/38 years of age. Martin Demichelis - After the penalty woe against Barcelona in that 2013-14 CL, he reinvented himself and became the best CB and a key piece for City to win that title over Liverpool. Was also the best CB in the 2014 World Cup, easily. 34 years of age. Alberto Rodriguez - Have to shoehorn this one in. Average to good defender before 2013, then became the 2nd most important asset to Peru's World Cup qualification. We still haven't recovered from his absence. Pepe - Was always a good CB but has become even better since leaving Real Madrid. One of Portugal's key performers in the 2016 Euro's if not THE best player for them, and still performing at a high level in the CL. Brazil should have never let him go. Diego Lugano - Similar to Godin really. Just like keepers, a few of them who relied on pace don't age quite as well, but keepers are similar really. There are exceptions. Casillas hasn't aged as well as Buffon, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 It saddens me that plenty of football fans see European Football as some sort of hindrance and treat the Europa League and soon, the Conference League, with contempt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 14 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: It saddens me that plenty of football fans see European Football as some sort of hindrance and treat the Europa League and soon, the Conference League, with contempt. I think the issue with the europa league is the teams in it. It has fifth placed teams in the top 4 leagues, then 4th placed teams, from the leagues just below that, teams that finished third in the champions league group stages etc. When you had the cup winners cup, and the UEFA cup with 2nd place teams from the top leagues it had more prestige. I would actually like to win it even if it doesn't qualify us for the champions league but without champions league qualification it is like the league cup unfortunately. I still want to win it. But it's not a priority and I wouldn't want to risk key players for it. I would prefer it if the conference league was used for smaller nations. I would like to see a European competition for smaller nations. However there isnt enough money in it so unlikely to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I like the Europa league. It doesn't benefit the clubs directly but it benefits coefficients. Not only that but I think it's a necessary competition to measure which league is stronger. The Champions League only has the strongest team of each nation, which isn't always telling. I firmly believe they also need to measure the secondary and tertiary teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) The European championship would be better with 32 teams than 24. The main issue with the European championship was defensive play because of teams trying to finish third in the group. If they had 32 teams they could stop that. For me teams with less quality can still produce entertaining games so the issue was the style more than the lack of quality. I mean I've seen football league games more entertaining than champions league finals before. @Smiley Culture @Mpache thoughts? By the way the reason I'm tagging you two is because I cannot see anyone else even considering agreeing with me Edited March 11, 2021 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I agree, it will eventually happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, McAzeem said: I agree, it will eventually happen What will happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said: What will happen? Expansion of Euros to 32 teams. World Cup went through that phase too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Expanding the Euro's is the worst move ever, the tournament itself was always hugely entertaining because the standard of the teams were all a very good level. 2016 was dreadful in my opinion, far too many teams that got into the tournament too easily, some of the qualification groups it seemed harder not to qualify with three qualifiers and a fourth going into a play off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse 111 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, McAzeem said: Expansion of Euros to 32 teams. World Cup went through that phase too. I understood WC expansion but don't see any reason to expand the Euros to include just about every country on the continent. 24 is already more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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