Scotland 0-1 Hungary - Sunday 23rd June, 2024

[Machado]

12 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Yeah I thought that was a penalty before for Scotland.

Shame for them. Perpetual pain of just not having quite enough quality to compete at this level. Also feel like the quality they do produce is either in defence or out and out goalscorers. Lack of creativity really limits how you can hurt other teams at this level. Support was top notch though.

It is a shame. Officiating has been close to perfect in this tournament. I don't understand how that doesn't go to VAR and how their bench don't make more noise when it happened.

[Inverted]

Although it's still a bit confusing why the Hungarians started so passively, it is still illustrative that the Hungarians clearly had the ability to gradually open-up as it became more urgent to score a goal, while Scotland had basically no backup plan except to panic and throw everyone forward.

[Michael]

Having Dykes, Patterson, Hickey and Lewis Ferguson injured and ruled out of the the Euros was a blow for Scotland. Tierney's injury during the competition didn't help either. But one would still have expected a little more from Scotland. I have to say though that right-back Ralston was poor for Scotland in all their matches in my opinion. Scotland will be relieved to have regular right-backs Patterson and Hickey back from injury.

Gunn made some good saves against Switzerland and Hungary and he ended up being one of Scotland's better performers at these Euros, after his sub-par performance against Germany.

But Clarke has to go now, it's time to give a new manager a chance as Scotland manager.

 

Edited June 23 by Michael

[Inverted]

Ralston has actually played better than I expected, considering that he is a very very limited player. But yeah, a small nation like Scotland having to go in with its 3rd-choice right back is pretty limiting.

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

18 minutes ago, Machado said:

It is a shame. Officiating has been close to perfect in this tournament. I don't understand how that doesn't go to VAR and how their bench don't make more noise when it happened.

I think he tried to buy it too much which seems to count against players but it doesn't change the fact of whether it's a foul or not.

@Inverted is it time for Moyes? (Genuinely don't know if that's a reasonable question or a stupid one.)

[Michael]

9 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Ralston has actually played better than I expected, considering that he is a very very limited player. But yeah, a small nation like Scotland having to go in with its 3rd-choice right back is pretty limiting.

 

 

I feel for the Scottish fans more than anything else to be honest. Player for player, this Scotland team that went to these Euros were weaker than all the other sides in their group. So them not qualifying is not too unexpected, but it's always great having the Scottish fans at these major tournaments. You're Scottish fans are some of the best, even better than our own I have to say. You lot don't go to other people's countries and sing about their bomber planes being shot down.

[Inverted]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I think he tried to buy it too much which seems to count against players but it doesn't change the fact of whether it's a foul or not.

@Inverted is it time for Moyes? (Genuinely don't know if that's a reasonable question or a stupid one.)

I don't know whether Moyes brings the same problem of being generally cautious and tactically quite fixed in his ways.

But, at the same time, given the fact that the squad is so limited in certain areas, maybe we do just need a similar type of manager to come in with roughly same idea, but execute it more competently.

Building the entire team around a hyper specifc Tierney-Robertson combination, and then persisting with it even when Tierney is injured, is baffling. Especially given that Tierney is one of the most injury-prone players around.

With one injury, the formation ceases to accommodate the strong area of the squad (Tierney-Robertson) and instead just accentuates how unbalanced the squad is.

Plus, Robertson is half the player when he plays at LWB. His best position is running from deep onto the ball; he's not hugely effective when receiving the ball to feet high up the pitch. 

[Stan]

Good to hear 

 

 

[Devil]

Defo time for Moyes. He's at the right age and experience. I also don't see him getting the opportunity in league football he'd like anymore.

I don't know what more the Scottish can expect though, majority of squad is made up of Championship/League 1 players.

There is no Bale or Ramsey in that side to drive them forward like Wales had.

[Gunnersaurus]

2 minutes ago, Devil said:

Defo time for Moyes. He's at the right age and experience. I also don't see him getting the opportunity in league football he'd like anymore.

I don't know what more the Scottish can expect though, majority of squad is made up of Championship/League 1 players.

There is no Bale or Ramsey in that side to drive them forward like Wales had.

I don't know. I still think he could get a decent job in the league. I would imagine he has more credentials than any other Scottish manager though. Not sure if it's a bit harsh on clarke though. Like you said Scotland don't really have the players. I don't know how strong the squads are of Hungary and Switzerland but from what I gather they are stronger than Scotlands 

[Devil]

6 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

I don't know. I still think he could get a decent job in the league. I would imagine he has more credentials than any other Scottish manager though. Not sure if it's a bit harsh on clarke though. Like you said Scotland don't really have the players. I don't know how strong the squads are of Hungary and Switzerland but from what I gather they are stronger than Scotlands 

Put it this way, Switzerland have several players capable of incredible stuff. Shaqiri, Xhaka and Embolo to name a few. Hungary havd a decent side or par with Scotland so it was a proper shoot out tonight.

I was well entertained.

[Inverted]

The way Scotland's talent is spread out is extremely non-optimal for a small nation.

The ideal setup seems to be having a decent spread of average, hard-working players, and then one or two quality creative or attacking players. If you have no glaring weak spots, and can produce one or two moments of quality per game, you can do reasonably well.

Scotland have two elite left backs, several fairly good box-to-box midfielders, two promising but injured right backs, and a couple of decent centre backs. The rest of the squad is pretty much terrible. 

We are stacked in a couple of positions, but they are positions that don't really win games.

[Devil]

5 minutes ago, Inverted said:

The way Scotland's talent is spread out is extremely non-optimal for a small nation.

The ideal setup seems to be having a decent spread of average, hard-working players, and then one or two quality creative or attacking players. If you have no glaring weak spots, and can produce one or two moments of quality per game, you can do reasonably well.

Scotland have two elite left backs, several fairly good box-to-box midfielders, two promising but injured right backs, and a couple of decent centre backs. The rest of the squad is pretty much terrible. 

We are stacked in a couple of positions, but they are positions that don't really win games.

I'd say overall they are the weakest squad at the whole tournament.

That includes Georgia.

Only other side for me is Albania.

[Inverted]

Just now, Devil said:

I'd say overall they are the weakest squad at the whole tournament.

That includes Georgia.

Only other side for me is Albania.

Georgia are a good example of the ideal type of team for a small country without many good players.

A few flair players up top who can create goals from very little, and then a brilliant keeper who can keep you in games.

Those types of contributions are easily felt in a tournament format where you've only got 3 games to perform. Whereas, things like John McGinn winning a shit ton of free kicks might make a difference over the course of a whole season but they don't decide games in the short term.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

52 minutes ago, Inverted said:

The way Scotland's talent is spread out is extremely non-optimal for a small nation.

The ideal setup seems to be having a decent spread of average, hard-working players, and then one or two quality creative or attacking players. If you have no glaring weak spots, and can produce one or two moments of quality per game, you can do reasonably well.

Scotland have two elite left backs, several fairly good box-to-box midfielders, two promising but injured right backs, and a couple of decent centre backs. The rest of the squad is pretty much terrible. 

We are stacked in a couple of positions, but they are positions that don't really win games.

Wales had it down pat. A good center back to organize the D, an elite midfielder to find the forwards and stretch the field, and a god tier forward who can carry the team with his goals.

Scotland were in a must win game and their first shot was in the 58th minute.

[Dan+]

That was absolutely glorious  

[Gunnersaurus]

7 hours ago, Inverted said:

The way Scotland's talent is spread out is extremely non-optimal for a small nation.

The ideal setup seems to be having a decent spread of average, hard-working players, and then one or two quality creative or attacking players. If you have no glaring weak spots, and can produce one or two moments of quality per game, you can do reasonably well.

Scotland have two elite left backs, several fairly good box-to-box midfielders, two promising but injured right backs, and a couple of decent centre backs. The rest of the squad is pretty much terrible. 

We are stacked in a couple of positions, but they are positions that don't really win games.

This is why I'm not to sure fans should be so harsh on clarke. I'm not saying that's they maybe shouldn't look to move on. But I think he has probably done a good job. Just doesn't have the players 

[Michael]

7 hours ago, Devil said:

Defo time for Moyes. He's at the right age and experience. I also don't see him getting the opportunity in league football he'd like anymore.

I don't know what more the Scottish can expect though, majority of squad is made up of Championship/League 1 players.

There is no Bale or Ramsey in that side to drive them forward like Wales had.

I agree, Moyes is the obvious choice for me. He has the experience and the credentials to get more out of this Scotland side. But this Scotland squad that went to the Euros, has 7 players who play in the Premier League and 1 player who plays in the La Liga, not to mention other players who do have past experience of playing in the Premier League. They even had players who play in the Premier League who didn't make these Euros because of injury and other players who play in Serie A.

It's obviously never going to be easy for Scotland in a major competition like this, given the strength of the opposition, but the potential is there to get more out of this team. The fact that they didn't have a single shot in the 1st half against Hungary, is something I blame on the manager and his tactics.

7 hours ago, Gunnersaurus said:

I don't know. I still think he could get a decent job in the league. I would imagine he has more credentials than any other Scottish manager though. Not sure if it's a bit harsh on clarke though. Like you said Scotland don't really have the players. I don't know how strong the squads are of Hungary and Switzerland but from what I gather they are stronger than Scotlands 

I am sure Moyes could still get a good job in the league, but I think that he is the obvious choice for the Scotland manager role. I don't think it's harsh on Clarke, Scotland's weren't adventurous enough at these Euros in my opinion and that 1st half against Hungary was awful. Scotland have plenty of Premier League players and others who play in the La Liga and Serie A. There are some good players in that team, but they need a manager who will get the most out of them.

Scotland had some excellent results in 2023, including a 2-0 win against Spain in the Nations League. But their performances in 2024 leading up to these Euros was very poor, so I always feared the worst once their Euro 2024 campaign kicked off. But the potential for them playing well against decent sides is definitely there. Having said that, this squad is still the weakest player for player compared to Switzerland and Hungary, as well as of course Germany.

By the way, I do have to say that the foul on Armstrong in the area in yesterday's match against Hungary,  should have at least been checked by VAR. It looked to me like many referees would have given that as a penalty.

[Michael]

7 hours ago, Devil said:

I'd say overall they are the weakest squad at the whole tournament.

That includes Georgia.

Only other side for me is Albania.

I personally wouldn't say that they are worse than Georgia. Georgia and Albania are the weakest for me, but maybe Scotland and Turkey next. The difference between Georgia and Scotland at these Euros is that Georgia were much more adventurous. Georgia were 2nd best in both their matches against Czechia and Turkey at these Euros. However, their adventurousness earned them a penalty which they scored from against the Czechs and which ultimately earned them a draw.

Georgia were in Scotland's qualifying group for these Euros and during these qualifiers in 2023, Scotland beat Georgia 2-0 at home and they drew 2-2 away in Tbilisi. Scotland were the better and dominant side in both matches. Moreover, Scotland finished with 17 points in their qualifying group, 9 points ahead of Georgia who finished on 8 points. So Scotland are the better side. It's just that the Georgian manager Sagnol seems to have gotten the most out of this Georgian side at these Euros, where they have played to their best and to their strengths. Whereas that doesn't seem to be the case with Scotland, where the team has looked disjointed at times and lacking in ideas.

[Inverted]

2 hours ago, Gunnersaurus said:

This is why I'm not to sure fans should be so harsh on clarke. I'm not saying that's they maybe shouldn't look to move on. But I think he has probably done a good job. Just doesn't have the players 

I think the fans do acknowledge that the squad is limited, but nonetheless feel Clarke needs to go. And I think the lack of balance in the squad is if anything a reason to be more adventurous. 

The way Clarke plays is as though the gameplan is "be solid, take no risks, and hope to create a chance out of nothing". But we don't have the personnel to do that - not enough solid defenders to sit deep, and no flair players to create chances on their own.

During qualifying most chances were made by overwhelming opposition with runners from midfield and on the flanks. But its basically impossible to do that while playing defensively. 

Edited June 24 by Inverted

[RandoEFC+]

Yeah that's basically what I was trying to get at earlier. This Scotland side in terms of quality probably isn't much different to the Wales team that went on runs in major tournaments. The main difference is that Wales had their elite player in a "match-winning" position whereas Scotland's best player through this era has been a full-back and full-backs aren't really known for winning matches single-handedly.

[Inverted]

59 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Yeah that's basically what I was trying to get at earlier. This Scotland side in terms of quality probably isn't much different to the Wales team that went on runs in major tournaments. The main difference is that Wales had their elite player in a "match-winning" position whereas Scotland's best player through this era has been a full-back and full-backs aren't really known for winning matches single-handedly.

Plus, once Robertson and Tierney start declining (which might already be happening) our best player is then probably going to be Billy Gilmour.

Who is a great player, but again, deep-lying playmakers are not generally the type of players who single-handedly win games.

Can only hope that Ben Doak actually does become as good as it seems he might.

[Spike]

If only Scotland had won their game against Switzerland and had less pressure to win this game.

[Devil]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

If only Scotland had won their game against Switzerland and had less pressure to win this game.

Exactly what I said at the time, win the game and take off the pressure.

The draw with Switzerland was the result that killed the group for them.

[Rucksackfranzose]

51 minutes ago, Devil said:

Exactly what I said at the time, win the game and take off the pressure.

The draw with Switzerland was the result that killed the group for them.

Even if they'd won against Switzerland that loss had seen them efinish their group on 4th spot. However you look at it the loss against Hungary was the decessive match. And no Scotland wouldn't have become a better side by some weird magic if the'd won against Switzerland.