Personal Grooming!!

[Bluewolf]

This little bit of daft news got me thinking... I will let you read what she wrote as it's pretty much self explanatory 

This has been niggling at me for a while. 

I'm 31. Been with dh nearly 14 years. My shaving routine used to be:
Underarms - most days, might get a bit stubbly if I left it for a few. Probably take care to shave them before baring them to swim/sunbathe.
Legs - only really bothered for a night out, so maybe shaved once a month. More in summer, but def not every day - maybe for an 'event' or a beach day. An event might include a sexy night in, but they certainly weren't smooth at all times and I didn't care.
Vag - never. Or maybe once or twice as an experiment, never liked it, hate the feeling, find it uncomfortable plus too much faff.

Then when I got pregnant (daughter is nearly 2 now), stopped shaving pretty much everything. Initially, morning sickness and generally not leaving house, later size of bump. Sexy times were non existent anyway as dh stopped sexual activity once I was pregnant - which I was very upset about.
Shaving has never resumed post partum - I will still occasionally do it for a night out/special event but not always, and of course nights out are a lot rarer now with DD. My solitary baths when I could quickly do my underarms are long gone, DD baths with me so no razors in the bath, and when I do get the odd solitary bath I cba with how long it would take as underarms now a good inch long. 
I just don't care any more, even as much as I used to, about what people think. If I go swimming or to the beach, I dont feel the need to de-hair first. I think this is a lot to do with giving birth in front of five strangers - personal things somehow seem a lot less personal!

My issue is dh has brought up me not shaving a few times and I feel very uncomfortable about him doing that. After an argument once he said, as part of a rang about how I dont care, 'you dont even shave your legs anymore', quickly followed up by 'not that that's important, but it just shows that you dont care', to which I was  as I was never in the permanently-hairless-legs crew, ever, and in any case the reason I had reduced the number of leg shaves was because I had reduced the numbers of nights out, end of!

The other day, he was giving me a foot massage and commented 'whoa, how hairy are your legs?!' I think I responded with a  and a 'quite hairy', and he followed up with 'what about your armpits? Have you shaved those lately?' Or similar.

He has also said several times in the past that he prefers a shaven vag. I've said I dont like the feel of it so dont plan to dp that regularly, but have on the very odd occasion got a bikini wax/Californian wax. Last time he didn't even notice as he wasn't up for sex for the whole 6 weeks it was evident, so that was a waste!

I feel really quite miffed that he thinks I should shave because he prefers it. I suppose I have two questions:
A) AIBU to manage my body hair in any way I want without reference to him and
B) what do most people here do? I know most of my friends do shave with some regularity. I know my mum never did. So possibly a generational thing, but as I grew up with my mum as a role model, I feel totally comfortable either way. I feel very uncomfortable with the comments I've sometimes seen on social media about not shaving being 'dirty' or 'unhygienic'.

Thoughts??

There are 2 sides to this really... She should feel comfortable doing what makes her happy but this also puts a bit of a strain on their relationship because she has stopped shaving altogether and expects him to be ok with this which clearly he is not! 

Not shaving is hardly 'dirty' or 'unhygienic' though is it... the body naturally grows hair and it's only magazines and media pressure that make women and men feel they need to have that perfectly groomed body all the time and to sell shit loads of their latest products etc... I will however say that in the early days of their relationship she no doubt pulled out all the stops and kept everything trimmed/shaved, making herself look nice/sexy etc as we do, and I will be brutally honest here, any woman that has armpits so hairy they look like they have Don King in a headlock or looking like you have big furry boots on even after just stepping out of the shower are a big no no as far as I am concerned....  I am not bothered too much about the bush though.. well I say that, as long as it's nicely trimmed or shaved I am happy... not keen on those that are bushy enough to hide a Japanese soldier in them... I mean let's cut to the chase I am not a hairy woman kind of bloke.. It's my job to have the hair on the chest etc.. 

I have to the best of my knowledge tried to keep myself in as reasonable shape as I can and apart from getting older I am more or less the same person with the same standards I had back then when we first met and when it comes to making an effort and It's even more important to me that I keep making the effort as well... I appreciate that my fashion sense has probably taken a right nose dive as I dress for comfort these days and not how good my arse might look in a pair jeans at the checkout at Sainsbury's.. 

It's an odd one because when you first meet each other there are certain sexual attractions at play that draw you both together before you may have even spoken 2 words and then things grow from there but if you change the dynamic or the formula that drew you together then it soon all falls apart.. Everybody changes over time to a degree, some more drastic than others depending on a whole host of other factors but keeping that basic effort going is fundamental and without it you are doomed... When it gets to that stage that you don't make the effort anymore for each other then what's the point in being together, clearly there are other issues at play.. 

We have a fairly broad age range on here so how important is personal grooming not only to you but for the person you are with??? 

 

 

 

[Stan]

why have you been browsing mumsnet?

[Stan]

in all seriousness, I find it quite important but am of the mind that if someone chooses to be comparatively hairier, then so be it. As long as they wash and clean their areas then it will stay as hygienic as if there was no hair there? Their happiness in their own comfortability is up to them and ultimately for them to decide. But there has to be compromises from both sides. In the example above, the man finds it unacceptable she's not shaved at all anywhere and just given up. The woman thinks this is okay but hasn't taken in to account how it might affect her partner? As you say as well, she made all the effort at the start and then seemingly couldn't be arsed. I'm well aware that pregnancy and giving birth has changed her own viewpoint as she mentions. He probably could have gone about it a more sensitive way though  

4 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

It's an odd one because when you first meet each there are certain sexual attractions at play that draw you both together before you may have even spoken 2 words and then things grow from there

I did enjoy this unintentional pun from you  

 

[Bluewolf]

5 minutes ago, Stan said:

why have you been browsing mumsnet?

It was in a newspaper article and that was the link... 

Just now, Stan said:

in all seriousness, I find it quite important but am of the mind that if someone chooses to be comparatively hairier, then so be it. As long as they wash and clean their areas then it will stay as hygienic as if there was no hair there? Their happiness in their own comfortability is up to them and ultimately for them to decide. But there has to be compromises from both sides. In the example above, the man finds it unacceptable she's not shaved at all anywhere and just given up. The woman thinks this is okay but hasn't taken in to account how it might affect her partner? As you say as well, she made all the effort at the start and then seemingly couldn't be arsed. I'm well aware that pregnancy and giving birth has changed her own viewpoint as she mentions. He probably could have gone about it a more sensitive way though  

I did enjoy this unintentional pun from you  

 

You have to drag just about everything straight into the gutter don't you... what are you like.. 

[Bluewolf]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

in all seriousness, I find it quite important but am of the mind that if someone chooses to be comparatively hairier, then so be it. As long as they wash and clean their areas then it will stay as hygienic as if there was no hair there? Their happiness in their own comfortability is up to them and ultimately for them to decide. But there has to be compromises from both sides. In the example above, the man finds it unacceptable she's not shaved at all anywhere and just given up. The woman thinks this is okay but hasn't taken in to account how it might affect her partner? As you say as well, she made all the effort at the start and then seemingly couldn't be arsed. I'm well aware that pregnancy and giving birth has changed her own viewpoint as she mentions. He probably could have gone about it a more sensitive way though  

I did enjoy this unintentional pun from you  

 

Funny that she does not mention him at all... I mean normally it might be a 2 way street, he stops bothering with something then she does so on and so forth until all effort is given up... 

[nudge]

I absolutely HATE having body hair, so regardless of whether I'm in a relationship or not, I've always been getting rid of it on regular basis - both for myself and for my partner. Also maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I like doing things that help maintain the attraction in the relationship; whether it's personal grooming, nice lingerie, showing physical affection, staying fit or anything else, especially since it really takes so little effort... It's of course essential to be comfortable with someone when in a relationship, but there's a difference between being comfortable and becoming complacent though, and I don't think that the desire to appear attractive to your partner is wrong anyway... That said, in this particular example, I understand that pregnancy and taking care of children definitely takes its toll and personal grooming isn't necessarily a priority for a while.

[Bluewolf]

2 minutes ago, nudge said:

I absolutely HATE having body hair, so regardless of whether I'm in a relationship or not, I've always been getting rid of it on regular basis - both for myself and for my partner. Also maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I like doing things that help maintain the attraction in the relationship; whether it's personal grooming, nice lingerie, showing physical affection, staying fit or anything else, especially since it really takes so little effort... It's of course essential to be comfortable with someone when in a relationship, but there's a difference between being comfortable and becoming complacent though, and I don't think that the desire to appear attractive to your partner is wrong anyway... That said, in this particular example, I understand that pregnancy and taking care of children definitely takes its toll and personal grooming isn't necessarily a priority for a while.

Agreed... You can't be at your best all the time but she seems to have just given up full stop from what she is saying... 

[Stan]

Just now, Bluewolf said:

Agreed... You can't be at your best all the time but she seems to have just given up full stop from what she is saying... 

yep.

In answer to her question - A) AIBU to manage my body hair in any way I want without reference to him

I'd say she is being unreasonable simply to disregard him. Alternatively, would she be happy if he just gave up on grooming or didn't do what she finds attractive?

[nudge]

1 minute ago, Bluewolf said:

Agreed... You can't be at your best all the time but she seems to have just given up full stop from what she is saying... 

For me, it's just a part of this mentality that there's no need to put any effort whatsoever anymore that so many people (both men and women, for that matter) seem to have after getting married and having children, and then a few years later they wonder why their partner doesn't seem to be interested in them anymore, why the magic is gone, and why the relationship is failing...

[Spike]

If a woman or a man doesn't give care what they look like they shouldn't expect their partner to care about fucking them. If my missus wants cleaned teeth before sex, I''ll clean my damned teeth beforehand and not throw a tantrum about it.

 I've said I dont like the feel of it so dont plan to dp that regularly, but have on the very odd occasion got a bikini wax/Californian wax. Last time he didn't even notice as he wasn't up for sex for the whole 6 weeks it was evident, so that was a waste!

This is a typical female reaction, the bloke has gotten used to the idea of a hairy cunt, so he doesn't go muff diving anymore. The dumb cunt waxes, doesn't tell him about it and gets mad that he didn't notice. Women are crazy, maybe he would have rooted her rotten if she bloody told him. Jesus Christ the guy isn't asking for much, fair enough she doesn't like the feel of pussy hair but she could keep it trim with an electric razor so he doesn't floss his teeth everytime they have sex. Relationships are about making compromises.

[Lucas]

I'm a big believer in personal grooming. You keep it tidy for her like she'd keep it tidy for you. If you want to go natural, crack on. Different strokes for different folks but not me. I just do not find it a turn on in the slightest seeing bundles of hair down there.

Equally, I don't expect my missus to go hunt through the jungle like she's on a bushtucker trial in 'I'm a Celebrity', just to find my little Witchetty Grub. 

Besides, it makes mine look a tiny bit bigger with less hair.

[Danny]

Probably depends on how precious you are, personally I don't really care what end of the spectrum you end up on (amazon rain forest or a shaven naven) but @Lucas makes a good point in that a little trim every now and then never hurt anybody.

Imagine having a pop at your missus after childbirth though because she didn't feel like shaving 😂😂 Just pushed a child out her vagina mate, more important things have happened there than a haircut

Hairy legs/armpits is difficult simply because as a man you're told that women should have shaven legs so you expect it, and whilst I haven't really got a massive need for my missus to have legs like mine, or armpits for that matter, if she wanted to grow it all out then that'd be her choice/something I'd get used to. Certainly wouldn't begrudge her for it like this geezer seems to do.

[Spike]

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

Probably depends on how precious you are, personally I don't really care what end of the spectrum you end up on (amazon rain forest or a shaven naven) but @Lucas makes a good point in that a little trim every now and then never hurt anybody.

Imagine having a pop at your missus after childbirth though because she didn't feel like shaving 😂😂 Just pushed a child out her vagina mate, more important things have happened there than a haircut

Hairy legs/armpits is difficult simply because as a man you're told that women should have shaven legs so you expect it, and whilst I haven't really got a massive need for my missus to have legs like mine, or armpits for that matter, if she wanted to grow it all out then that'd be her choice/something I'd get used to. Certainly wouldn't begrudge her for it like this geezer seems to do.

Two years later isn't 'just after childbirth'  

You are looking at it through the lens of 'do what you like' and that is okay, especially if you are single. But these two are married, she knows that he finds her more attractive when she is hairless, she wants to have sex, but complains that he doesn't find her attractive. You gotta put in to get something in return, just like it isn't her job to be Mrs. Perfect Skin, it isn't his job to find her attractive when he doesn't. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You cannot complain about the lack of a sex life when the effort isn't put in to maintain it and that is the crux of the issue. 

[Toinho]

5 hours ago, nudge said:

I absolutely HATE having body hair, so regardless of whether I'm in a relationship or not, I've always been getting rid of it on regular basis - both for myself and for my partner. Also maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I like doing things that help maintain the attraction in the relationship; whether it's personal grooming, nice lingerie, showing physical affection, staying fit or anything else, especially since it really takes so little effort... It's of course essential to be comfortable with someone when in a relationship, but there's a difference between being comfortable and becoming complacent though, and I don't think that the desire to appear attractive to your partner is wrong anyway... That said, in this particular example, I understand that pregnancy and taking care of children definitely takes its toll and personal grooming isn't necessarily a priority for a while.

I'm jealous.

[Toinho]

I am not a fan of body hair on a female (in the parts mentioned in the opening post), however I have been in a relationship where I never commented on the hair in one region. At first I thought I would hate it, but it was maintained at a passable level.

Back to the topic it does sound like she's given up and let herself go. I don't like that...

I try make some effort myself but I'd like to keep my underarm and leg hair. I'm a very hairy man. Nipple hair for days.

[Danny]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

Two years later isn't 'just after childbirth'  

You are looking at it through the lens of 'do what you like' and that is okay, especially if you are single. But these two are married, she knows that he finds her more attractive when she is hairless, she wants to have sex, but complains that he doesn't find her attractive. You gotta put in to get something in return, just like it isn't her job to be Mrs. Perfect Skin, it isn't his job to find her attractive when he doesn't. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You cannot complain about the lack of a sex life when the effort isn't put in to maintain it and that is the crux of the issue. 

Two years is a while...haha. I guess it depends on what's "maintaining". Are we talking a trim or are we talking shaved to the point you could light a match? The former then fair enough, the latter then tough shit I reckon.

But as a couples therapist would say, they need to come to a compromise somewhere and probably shouldn't come to that compromise via a national newspaper 😂

[Toinho]

40 minutes ago, Danny said:

Two years is a while...haha. I guess it depends on what's "maintaining". Are we talking a trim or are we talking shaved to the point you could light a match? The former then fair enough, the latter then tough shit I reckon.

But as a couples therapist would say, they need to come to a compromise somewhere and probably shouldn't come to that compromise via a national newspaper 😂

That the advice you got from the therapist?

[Danny]

3 minutes ago, Toinho said:

That the advice you got from the therapist?

You said there was patient therapist confidentiality you prick 

[Toinho]

7 hours ago, Danny said:

You said there was patient therapist confidentiality you prick 

Sorry i meant the rapist.

[Dr. Gonzo]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:23, nudge said:

For me, it's just a part of this mentality that there's no need to put any effort whatsoever anymore that so many people (both men and women, for that matter) seem to have after getting married and having children, and then a few years later they wonder why their partner doesn't seem to be interested in them anymore, why the magic is gone, and why the relationship is failing...

I know so many people who've done exactly that. Gotten married, had kids, gotten fat and don't give a fuck about how they look. And now they're like "it's like she's not even attracted to me" - no shit mate, you used to not be a fat sack of lard and here you sit before me like Jabba the hut, stuffing your face with whatever the fuck is put in front of you.

But in the case of this woman and her body hair... it ultimately seems like a communication issue she's got with her husband (or whatever the fuck he is). He's made comments about it and she said she's felt uncomfortable, but it doesn't seem like they've actually talked about anything other than what she's said. And I can understand not giving a fuck about that shit after having a kid, 100% - but at the same time it's been 2 years since they had a kid. And they've got a kid and have lived with each other for over a decade, they should be able to talk it out. Otherwise this marriage is doomed to either fail or be super shite for them.

I believe the bigger question is what the fuck sort of womens body hair issues magazine is @Bluewolf subscribed to and why?

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I know so many people who've done exactly that. Gotten married, had kids, gotten fat and don't give a fuck about how they look. And now they're like "it's like she's not even attracted to me" - no shit mate, you used to not be a fat sack of lard and here you sit before me like Jabba the hut, stuffing your face with whatever the fuck is put in front of you.

But in the case of this woman and her body hair... it ultimately seems like a communication issue she's got with her husband (or whatever the fuck he is). He's made comments about it and she said she's felt uncomfortable, but it doesn't seem like they've actually talked about anything other than what she's said. And I can understand not giving a fuck about that shit after having a kid, 100% - but at the same time it's been 2 years since they had a kid. And they've got a kid and have lived with each other for over a decade, they should be able to talk it out. Otherwise this marriage is doomed to either fail or be super shite for them.

I believe the bigger question is what the fuck sort of womens body hair issues magazine is @Bluewolf subscribed to and why?

It was one of them daft newspaper articles and it linked to Mumsnet... Honest.. 

This has reminded me of a horror I thought I had long forgotten though... When I was on a beach down in Margate with the kids and missus many years ago this woman walked past us in a 2 piece costume and I shit you not she had hair coming down the inside of her legs that looked like Elvis Presley sideburns.. It was awful and not something you would not have noticed either.. despite looking quickly away out to sea it was an image I will obviously never forget.. It could have ruined me... 

 

[Stan]

oh shit it was actually on Mumsnet. I was just messing about  

 

on another note, I shaved yesterday and the smoothness down there is unreal. On a par with that fresh bedsheets feeling. 

[MUFC]

On 12/05/2018 at 18:31, Bluewolf said:

This little bit of daft news got me thinking... I will let you read what she wrote as it's pretty much self explanatory 

This has been niggling at me for a while. 

I'm 31. Been with dh nearly 14 years. My shaving routine used to be:
Underarms - most days, might get a bit stubbly if I left it for a few. Probably take care to shave them before baring them to swim/sunbathe.
Legs - only really bothered for a night out, so maybe shaved once a month. More in summer, but def not every day - maybe for an 'event' or a beach day. An event might include a sexy night in, but they certainly weren't smooth at all times and I didn't care.
Vag - never. Or maybe once or twice as an experiment, never liked it, hate the feeling, find it uncomfortable plus too much faff.

Then when I got pregnant (daughter is nearly 2 now), stopped shaving pretty much everything. Initially, morning sickness and generally not leaving house, later size of bump. Sexy times were non existent anyway as dh stopped sexual activity once I was pregnant - which I was very upset about.
Shaving has never resumed post partum - I will still occasionally do it for a night out/special event but not always, and of course nights out are a lot rarer now with DD. My solitary baths when I could quickly do my underarms are long gone, DD baths with me so no razors in the bath, and when I do get the odd solitary bath I cba with how long it would take as underarms now a good inch long. 
I just don't care any more, even as much as I used to, about what people think. If I go swimming or to the beach, I dont feel the need to de-hair first. I think this is a lot to do with giving birth in front of five strangers - personal things somehow seem a lot less personal!

My issue is dh has brought up me not shaving a few times and I feel very uncomfortable about him doing that. After an argument once he said, as part of a rang about how I dont care, 'you dont even shave your legs anymore', quickly followed up by 'not that that's important, but it just shows that you dont care', to which I was  as I was never in the permanently-hairless-legs crew, ever, and in any case the reason I had reduced the number of leg shaves was because I had reduced the numbers of nights out, end of!

The other day, he was giving me a foot massage and commented 'whoa, how hairy are your legs?!' I think I responded with a  and a 'quite hairy', and he followed up with 'what about your armpits? Have you shaved those lately?' Or similar.

He has also said several times in the past that he prefers a shaven vag. I've said I dont like the feel of it so dont plan to dp that regularly, but have on the very odd occasion got a bikini wax/Californian wax. Last time he didn't even notice as he wasn't up for sex for the whole 6 weeks it was evident, so that was a waste!

I feel really quite miffed that he thinks I should shave because he prefers it. I suppose I have two questions:
A) AIBU to manage my body hair in any way I want without reference to him and
B) what do most people here do? I know most of my friends do shave with some regularity. I know my mum never did. So possibly a generational thing, but as I grew up with my mum as a role model, I feel totally comfortable either way. I feel very uncomfortable with the comments I've sometimes seen on social media about not shaving being 'dirty' or 'unhygienic'.

Thoughts??

There are 2 sides to this really... She should feel comfortable doing what makes her happy but this also puts a bit of a strain on their relationship because she has stopped shaving altogether and expects him to be ok with this which clearly he is not! 

Not shaving is hardly 'dirty' or 'unhygienic' though is it... the body naturally grows hair and it's only magazines and media pressure that make women and men feel they need to have that perfectly groomed body all the time and to sell shit loads of their latest products etc... I will however say that in the early days of their relationship she no doubt pulled out all the stops and kept everything trimmed/shaved, making herself look nice/sexy etc as we do, and I will be brutally honest here, any woman that has armpits so hairy they look like they have Don King in a headlock or looking like you have big furry boots on even after just stepping out of the shower are a big no no as far as I am concerned....  I am not bothered too much about the bush though.. well I say that, as long as it's nicely trimmed or shaved I am happy... not keen on those that are bushy enough to hide a Japanese soldier in them... I mean let's cut to the chase I am not a hairy woman kind of bloke.. It's my job to have the hair on the chest etc.. 

I have to the best of my knowledge tried to keep myself in as reasonable shape as I can and apart from getting older I am more or less the same person with the same standards I had back then when we first met and when it comes to making an effort and It's even more important to me that I keep making the effort as well... I appreciate that my fashion sense has probably taken a right nose dive as I dress for comfort these days and not how good my arse might look in a pair jeans at the checkout at Sainsbury's.. 

It's an odd one because when you first meet each other there are certain sexual attractions at play that draw you both together before you may have even spoken 2 words and then things grow from there but if you change the dynamic or the formula that drew you together then it soon all falls apart.. Everybody changes over time to a degree, some more drastic than others depending on a whole host of other factors but keeping that basic effort going is fundamental and without it you are doomed... When it gets to that stage that you don't make the effort anymore for each other then what's the point in being together, clearly there are other issues at play.. 

We have a fairly broad age range on here so how important is personal grooming not only to you but for the person you are with??? 

 

 

 

Please expand on the bold/underlined section. 

[Whiskey]

The fuck.

[Machado]

I swear to god, MUFC types foot on the search engine and bumps every thread that shows up.