bozziovai Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, SirBalon said: You’re implying Messi selects the players for the Argentina national side. If this is the case, then you’ve lost it mate. nope. that's not what i meant. we've all seen it right ?? argentina has qualified all becoz of messi, none of his team mates have given 100% for their national team
Spike Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 8 hours ago, SirBalon said: Argentina go into World Cups to win them though mate. They almost didn't make it to this one with higuain, aguero, di maria and dybala. Forget winning it without Messi.
El Profesor Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 2 hours ago, SirBalon said: Mediocre sides can become extremely competitive if they are very well disciplined and forget being cavalier. Ricardo Lavolpe, who is a great football mind in my opinion, said some things that makes a lot of sense regarding Sampaoli´s task at Argentina. Do it simple.
Guest Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 58 minutes ago, SirBalon said: You’re implying Messi selects the players for the Argentina national side. If this is the case, then you’ve lost it mate. In some ways, he does. The whole reason Icardi isn't called up is because of him. I know its a theory, but I buy it given what the chemistry between them was like when they played vs Uruguay and Venezuela.
SirBalon Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 36 minutes ago, Blue said: In some ways, he does. The whole reason Icardi isn't called up is because of him. I know its a theory, but I buy it given what the chemistry between them was like when they played vs Uruguay and Venezuela. Icardi isn’t called up because he’s a fool and a rebel.
Guest Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 1 minute ago, SirBalon said: Icardi isn’t called up because he’s a fool and a rebel. Yes, I know but I also think it has to do with his past performances for Argentina. He played 2 games back in November and he hardly got the ball. Again, its a theory but I didn't see anyone wanting to give the ball to Icardi. Messi in particular is friends with Maxi Lopez, and I don't think that's helped his case. He doesn't "pick" the players, but the managers make sure the squad chemistry is strong particularly within him. Imagine not getting along with Messi in the dressing room? Would be an Ibra with Barca situation all over again.
Spike Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 Another problem Argentina faces it can never decide if it wants to be Menotti or Bilardo. Right now they have a Menottista in charge, which is beneficial for players like Messi...but the might need a Bilardista like Cholo to win something, but that will be pragmatic and full of 1-0.
El Profesor Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, Blue said: Yes, I know but I also think it has to do with his past performances for Argentina. He played 2 games back in November and he hardly got the ball. Again, its a theory but I didn't see anyone wanting to give the ball to Icardi. Messi in particular is friends with Maxi Lopez, and I don't think that's helped his case. He doesn't "pick" the players, but the managers make sure the squad chemistry is strong particularly within him. Imagine not getting along with Messi in the dressing room? Would be an Ibra with Barca situation all over again. Honestly, I think if Messi hated Icardi´s guts so much, Icardi would be playing for Italy, as he´d never be called for Argentina in first place. I think the fact he carries a lot of luggage is a factor, but his performance with Argentina never justified a call-up as well. Granted, it´s a small sample size, but still, he was atrocious in Montevideo.
Devil-Dick Willie Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 He already quit right? Temper tantrum and all.
SirBalon Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Blue said: He doesn't "pick" the players, but the managers make sure the squad chemistry is strong particularly within him. Imagine not getting along with Messi in the dressing room? Would be an Ibra with Of course he doesn't pick the team and only stupid journalists with an agenda come out with those ridiculous comments (I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about all the journalists that bring this bullshit up) On what you wrote in that sentence I've quoted... Think for a second on what you wrote mate and let me open that sentence up into a footballing one, not a sensationalist comment which that can be construed to be (not saying you meant that), but using your sentence to talk football and leave all of this agenda crap behind. So... Managers make sure the squad chemistry is strong with Lionel Messi Let me rephrase that and put it in different words... As a manager that has studied the art of coaching football teams at high levels... Your job is to usually build around your most talented player or players. Imagine as a head coach you had the privilege to have in your team the best player in the world, maybe the best player in the history of the game. Would you make sure your choices suit the way he plays and has a chemistry with him? Wouldn't it be counterproductive not to do so? Thats one of the primary selection and signing tactics coaches and technical teams think about long and hard when they analyse the requirements of the team surrounding world class special players. Argentina doesn't only work this way... Every team on the planet works this way! A ridiculous thing to do would be to select a side that makes your best player's football more difficult to reproduce.
El Profesor Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 @SirBalon , I think the real problem for Argentina all those years is the lack of a good midfield. Pastore being so fragile physically and Kraneviter not living up the expectations after a great 2014 are bad breaks. In theory, considering the talent those guys have, with Lo Celso, they could have formed a really good supporting cast for Messi. But honestly, I have zero idea what to expect from Argentina this World Cup. I wouldn´t be suprised if they went on to win the World Cup but I also wouldn´t be surprised if they were eliminated in the group stage.
SirBalon Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 26 minutes ago, El Profesor said: @SirBalon , I think the real problem for Argentina all those years is the lack of a good midfield. Pastore being so fragile physically and Kraneviter not living up the expectations after a great 2014 are bad breaks. In theory, considering the talent those guys have, with Lo Celso, they could have formed a really good supporting cast for Messi. But honestly, I have zero idea what to expect from Argentina this World Cup. I wouldn´t be suprised if they went on to win the World Cup but I also wouldn´t be surprised if they were eliminated in the group stage. Without a doubt anything is possible with this Argentina side and to be honest nothing they've done over the past year and a half offers anything substantially positive. I've always been of the firm belief that a great team needs a great midfield first and foremost. It wouldn't be the first time we've seen a team achieve great deeds with even a mediocre front line but when the midfield functions very well, then anything is possible. A great midfield protects a defence and makes them look good, a great midfield provides the necessary quality in creation to give even an average striker ample opportunities to score. Modern football has become too obsessed with strikers and front line attackers... You can see this in the Ballon d'Or nominees that always end in the top three in recent years and certainly in the eventual winners. The prime suspect to get individual awards is the goal scorer but yet without the rest functioning to the highest quality that front man would be meaningless. I would even be willing to believe there are fools out there that think you could put either Messi, Cristiano or Neymar in a team like Colchester and that all of a sudden without any other improvement they'd suddenly become the Harlem Globe Trotters of football in their division. After the midfield you'd have to say the defence is the second most important factor and I say this because in modern football unlike football of 40 or 50 years back, you can't go out against the competition to consistently out score them without having top quality on those two lines. The proof is in the pudding with the very team we're all analysing here, Argentina. People consistently and eternally name, Agüero, Higuaín, Di María, Dybala, Icardi... etc... etc... But yet we have this scenario! The fact Argentina have Messi is a blessing from the Gods and they know it. Again we have the statistical proof that he has been the difference. He creates and it seems more times than not, he has to score. Against Ecuador he didn't only score, he created and went back to pinch the ball from his opponents once he saw the way they started and how poor they were and the nightmare that could be ensuing. There's a front line of names for Argentina that have never provided practically anything and then there's Messi who stands alone within the whole constellation that is that team. They said Argentina's Generation '86 was a one man band in Maradona... Those people that think that know nothing about football. That team was more than considerably surperior to this one (as a team) and then they had Maradona.
Philippe Coutinho Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 If Messi can single-handedly carry THIS dismal Argentine team to the promised land (winning the World Cup), forget whatever affiliation and association he has with FC Barcelona, THAT ALONE would make him the greatest player of all time. As was rightly pointed out, even "minnows" like Peru play significantly better together than the disjointed mess that is Argentina.
Cicero Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 Banega, Lo Celso, and Mascherano is a pretty nice midfield tbh
SirBalon Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Cicero said: Banega, Lo Celso, and Mascherano is a pretty nice midfield tbh Banega is a serial sufferer of the inconsistency syndrome. So much so that within a single game you can have countless ups and downs. In all honesty he’s overvalued in my view and his career is a farce. Think Riquelme! Lo Celso is a good player, the only quality in there but then again there are many midfielders of the same ilk as him. Mascherano is no longer a midfielder and is nothing like what he was. But at least with him you know he’ll play his heart out. There are plenty of midfields as good as that one in terms of where they expect to be competing and all the favourites have much better midfields on a different stratosphere.
Dalmore Posted July 17, 2018 Posted July 17, 2018 We was supposed to quit after he lost Copa America to Chile...
Dave Posted July 17, 2018 Author Posted July 17, 2018 I think for Argentina to usher in a new era they need quite a lot of their players in their 30's to step aside.
The Artful Dodger Posted July 17, 2018 Posted July 17, 2018 Really hope he stays on, he still has so much to offer, help usher in a new era and blood new players. Maybe they won't be successful while he's there but he can be part of the transition.
Fusion Posted July 17, 2018 Posted July 17, 2018 Didn't noticed he was still playing in the national team.
True Blue Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 Can he retire twice, and return for the third time? Little whining tax evading, midget enhancing cunt!
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