Sunday 19th August - Brighton 3-2 Man Utd

[Danny]

Just goes to show you how much of a genius Fergy was.

Mourinho's third season in charge, United really need to sort themselves out. Bailly, Lindelof, Matic, Fred, Sanchez and Lukaku...Mourinho has been backed significantly already, those players on top of De Gea, Pogba, Herrera, Shaw, Valencia, Martial, Rashford....he's had the opportunity to build a strong spine of a team with a group of already talented players and it's still going to shit. People talk about the board not backing him, in January they said they didn't need any other forwards now they have Sanchez. They've brought in another midfielder into the club...should they really be bringing in that many players at this stage?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Danny said:

Just goes to show you how much of a genius Fergy was.

Mourinho's third season in charge, United really need to sort themselves out. Bailly, Lindelof, Matic, Fred, Sanchez and Lukaku...Mourinho has been backed significantly already, those players on top of De Gea, Pogba, Herrera, Shaw, Valencia, Martial, Rashford....he's had the opportunity to build a strong spine of a team with a group of already talented players and it's still going to shit. People talk about the board not backing him, in January they said they didn't need any other forwards now they have Sanchez. They've brought in another midfielder into the club...should they really be bringing in that many players at this stage?

Mourinho has been backed more than any manager apart from pep. Anything less than second would be an underachievment.

[SirBalon]

31 minutes ago, Danny said:

Just goes to show you how much of a genius Fergy was.

Mourinho's third season in charge, United really need to sort themselves out. Bailly, Lindelof, Matic, Fred, Sanchez and Lukaku...Mourinho has been backed significantly already, those players on top of De Gea, Pogba, Herrera, Shaw, Valencia, Martial, Rashford....he's had the opportunity to build a strong spine of a team with a group of already talented players and it's still going to shit. People talk about the board not backing him, in January they said they didn't need any other forwards now they have Sanchez. They've brought in another midfielder into the club...should they really be bringing in that many players at this stage?

Any coach that is given Pogba (let's remember the appeal he had when signed), Alexis and Lukaku in his first two years can't complain.  But he's actually been given this in two years...

1. Paul Pogba
2. Romelu Lukaku
3. Fred
4. Nemanja Matić
5. Henrikh Mkhitaryan
6. Eric Bailly
7. Victor Lindelöf
8. Lee Grant
9. Alexis Sánchez

That's been his signings in 2 years because this year they haven't bought him anything.  All that with what was already there!  All that and the football remains the same.  Where Manchester United as a club are to blame in all of this is that the had to have known what they were getting with Jose Mourinho in every aspect... Moaning, never his fault, boring defensive football and untoward comments with his players when things start going pear shaped.

But the complaining coming from Mourinho is ridiculous... Does it have to be every year with heavy investment in signings?

Where does it all end  with signings and most importantly, where do the fruits of the investment start showing themselves?

22 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Mourinho has been backed more than any manager apart from pep. Anything less than second would be an underachievment.

The difference between the two (Mou and Pep) is that with Guardiola he has achieved and you see progression consistently.  It makes someone have confidence with investment because there's a positive outcome that's visible not only in trophies but undeniably in the brand of football.

[Dan+]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

United have been shite, and some of these players have been there throughout the reigns of Moyes, Van Gaal and now Mourinho still playing half-arsed. If the manager isn't good enough or isn't doing a good enough job, then that's a problem, but these players have just gotten used to not being threatened because since Fergie left the managers have persistently been blamed. I will reverse your question and ask you, when do the players take responsibility for their lacklustre effort and results on the pitch?

Like I said above, I saw this with Everton last season. When Unsworth managed us for a bit but the players knew they could half-arse it because he wasn't sticking around so why bother getting used to his tactics or try and earn a place in his thinking? Same with Allardyce later in the season. It's not acceptable from a fan's point of view. If the manager sets you up with shit tactics or poor team selections, then that's the manager's fault. If you then go out there and don't try your hardest for the football club because "you don't see eye to eye with the manager" or "you don't agree with the manager's philosophy" or "the manager has lost the dressing room" then that's the players' fault as well. Last season with Everton it was the manager's fault and the players' fault both. I've seen the same thing today with Manchester United. And, for me, when the players go out there and show that attitude, it is worth than the simple incompetence demonstrated by a struggling manager. All of this comes back to the media circus and our obsession with blaming managers disproportionately. Mourinho is doing a lot of things wrong at the moment but in today's performance I have some sympathy for him.

I agree with this as well. Player power's gone too far. I saw it happen with us last season. I'm not going to derail the thread by making it all about us but when Ranieri got the sack I was convinced that he had in-fact become the biggest problem here very quickly and that by getting rid of him we'd return to the healthy camp that we were before and during his time here. Last season under Shakespeare at the end, and under Puel towards the end of the season, I really did think how on earth can I justify travelling miles, even the 6 miles to home games, to watch this abject bollocks? The whole thing is structured so that the players will get away with it regardless of how they perform. If our dressing room decides they don't like Puel, they can get Puel the sack but they're still tied down to contracts here and even if the new manager doesn't want them, the chances are they'll effectively get away with it.

Mourinho people don't sympathise with because he ultimately falls on his own sword. He's happy to dish it out himself so he can't have too many complaints, but I do think that he's become a very easy scapegoat there for all of the problems. I've said this for a while but the ultimate fundamental flaw at Manchester United is this obsession with appeasing their global fanbase above everything else. You can call Manchester City out all you like for their part in modern football but at least for all their spending you can see a proper footballing plan at the club under a manager is absolutely refreshing in my eyes. Manchester United now? I just cannot see the plan. Appalling transfer strategy, miserable manager who looks effectively beaten to me and a load of nobhead players who don't really seem that bothered about playing for a club like that.

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

I will reverse your question and ask you, when do the players take responsibility for their lacklustre effort and results on the pitch?

At least when they're played in a mode that resembles the reason they were signed for.  I don't think relating what occurred at Everton with Mourinho who has had the same issues at three clubs be done mate.

Indeed there are many times where it is almost 50/50 like at Arsenal with Wenger and some players (a significant amount to make it all go wrong), but I think in this case we have a more visible judgment that can be made.  The funniest part is when he attacks other teams because they're achieving and get praise.

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

Just goes to show you how much of a genius Fergy was.

Mourinho's third season in charge, United really need to sort themselves out. Bailly, Lindelof, Matic, Fred, Sanchez and Lukaku...Mourinho has been backed significantly already, those players on top of De Gea, Pogba, Herrera, Shaw, Valencia, Martial, Rashford....he's had the opportunity to build a strong spine of a team with a group of already talented players and it's still going to shit. People talk about the board not backing him, in January they said they didn't need any other forwards now they have Sanchez. They've brought in another midfielder into the club...should they really be bringing in that many players at this stage?

Indeed he was and I also believe that he was clever enough to see when the tide was on the verge of turning for United... 

He got out just prior to it all going downhill... He knew that pretty much all the toothpaste had been squeezed from the United tube and that their period of such success was on the wane.. I think he knew that United as they were with the players they had could not continue to be the force they once were.. A fair majority of the players he had in his final season were entering the latter parts of their careers already, players like Ferdinand, Giggs and Scholes were on the bench.. They did have a bit of a spine but it was never going to be the same again and with him getting on I don't think he had the heart or possibly the health to continue... Better to finish on top than go under during a period of decline... 

None of the Managers coming in after him would have had the same level of experience or style of play to match his so it was always going to be near impossible to replicate what he had achieved and everything after would seem like a shadow of what they once were.. Fair to say though that they have had a lot of investment since and you might have thought that there would at least be some steady signs of things going in the right direction... Even when they do have a fairly decent season under the likes of Mourinho the football on show is a world away from what United fans have been used to so you can understand the frustration... 

[SirBalon]

8 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

How many European trophies does pep have with man city or with Bayern ? 

Pep hasn’t had a chance to play the Europa League. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

How many European trophies does pep have with man city or with Bayern ? What about klopp and his overyhyped but can't deliver when it counts squad? But hey , they have played GREAT football lately 

 

You went on and on this week about fucking Atletico and how great they are ? They built their success by taking the same approach as the coach you are trying to belittle here.(and still no European success for them as well) pick a side and stick with it coño.

Well pep has achieved more at city than mourinho at utd. Mourinho wouldn't win anything with Liverpool. Maybe ten years ago but not now.

[Cicero]

@Teso dos Bichos You did not just criticise Pep for not being able to win the Europa league with City or Bayern did you? 

[The Liquidator]

Fergie had a number of things in his favour.

1: During his time most seasons he had only the one club up against him. Today there are said to be 5-6 clubs involved in possible winners.

2: United had very little competition for the top players in the transfer market. Today they are a also ran as a destination for the top players. Just look at the defenders they have brought in since the old feller retired.

3: He had built a reputation for his club that had 90% of clubs going up against them already one nil down. Today there is little fear of playing them as the reputation has been lost by the two managers who replaced him.

--------------

It's early in the season and while fingers are being pointed at Jose, it must be highlighted someone at the club has pulled the plug on the never ending supply of money the fans enjoyed being spent when they stole Sanchez from City Lukaku from Chelsea and the money thrown away on the Pogba deal. Add the many defenders who have turned up to replace their last PL winners, none of which I believe Jose would class as good enough (I dont believe any of the defenders brought to the club during Jose's reign are his first choice) , you have to believe those who have stopped the money flow have to stick by this manager.

The question must be, who at the club has got cold feet? Must be someone very high up. Maybe its the family who need to pay off the interest on buying the club.

 

[Danny]

7 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

Fergie had a number of things in his favour.

1: During his time most seasons he had only the one club up against him. Today there are said to be 5-6 clubs involved in possible winners.

2: United had very little competition for the top players in the transfer market. Today they are a also ran as a destination for the top players. Just look at the defenders they have brought in since the old feller retired.

3: He had built a reputation for his club that had 90% of clubs going up against them already one nil down. Today there is little fear of playing them as the reputation has been lost by the two managers who replaced him.

--------------

It's early in the season and while fingers are being pointed at Jose, it must be highlighted someone at the club has pulled the plug on the never ending supply of money the fans enjoyed being spent when they stole Sanchez from City Lukaku from Chelsea and the money thrown away on the Pogba deal. Add the many defenders who have turned up to replace their last PL winners, none of which I believe Jose would class as good enough (I dont believe any of the defenders brought to the club during Jose's reign are his first choice) , you have to believe those who have stopped the money flow have to stick by this manager.

The question must be, who at the club has got cold feet? Must be someone very high up. Maybe its the family who need to pay off the interest on buying the club.

 

First point is the biggest myth in football. United were the only otherwise who looked like they could win the league last season. Spurs the season before. It may fluctuate slightly every now and then but there hasn't been a three way title race since Arsenal's beginning as bottlers and Rafas Liverpool.

[Dan+]

It is funny how if Bayern or PSG romp their league it's because it's a one horse race but if Manchester City do it they've absolutely blown stern competition out of the water. I cringe at some of the bias people have towards the Premier League at times.

[Burning Gold]

5 minutes ago, Dan said:

It is funny how if Bayern or PSG romp their league it's because it's a one horse race but if Manchester City do it they've absolutely blown stern competition out of the water. I cringe at some of the bias people have towards the Premier League at times.

I don't know about "stiff competition", but it is a bit different as Manchester City only did it last year (breaking a points record in the process), rather than doing it almost every year since the turn of the decade.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Dan said:

It is funny how if Bayern or PSG romp their league it's because it's a one horse race but if Manchester City do it they've absolutely blown stern competition out of the water. I cringe at some of the bias people have towards the Premier League at times.

Psg would win their league with Paul Merson in charge most of the time. Man city wouldn't. It's not the same

[Spike]

[Spike]

6 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Psg would win their league with Paul Merson in charge most of the time. Man city wouldn't. It's not the same

Paul Merson must be a better manager than Carlo Ancelotti and Unai Emery then. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

Paul Merson must be a better manager than Carlo Ancelotti and Unai Emery then. 

I said most of the time. And obviously I didn't mean it literally Paul Merson would relegate PSG. And I'm pretty certain ancelotti won it both times. 

[Spike]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

I said most of the time. And obviously I didn't mean it literally Paul Merson would relegate PSG. And I'm pretty certain ancelotti won it both times. 

Nope. Ancellotti lost in his first year to Montpellier.  He also didn't win any of the cup competitions.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Nope. Ancellotti lost in his first year to Montpellier.  He also didn't win any of the cup competitions.

Fair enough. Although hadn't they just got rich then? I'm sure he would win everything with them now

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Fair enough. Although hadn't they just got rich then? I'm sure he would win everything with them now

It was the same owners as today. Qatar!

[Dan+]

1 hour ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Psg would win their league with Paul Merson in charge most of the time. Man city wouldn't. It's not the same

PSG didn't win their league in 2017.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

It was the same owners as today. Qatar!

Yeah but they had only just had the investment. They hadn't signed all the top players then 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Dan said:

PSG didn't win their league in 2017.

First of all I was being sarcastic about paul merson. My point  was they would win their league most times with any decent manager. I did say most of the time not every time

[Redcanuck]

4 hours ago, The Liquidator said:

Fergie had a number of things in his favour.

1: During his time most seasons he had only the one club up against him. Today there are said to be 5-6 clubs involved in possible winners.

2: United had very little competition for the top players in the transfer market. Today they are a also ran as a destination for the top players. Just look at the defenders they have brought in since the old feller retired.

3: He had built a reputation for his club that had 90% of clubs going up against them already one nil down. Today there is little fear of playing them as the reputation has been lost by the two managers who replaced him.

--------------

It's early in the season and while fingers are being pointed at Jose, it must be highlighted someone at the club has pulled the plug on the never ending supply of money the fans enjoyed being spent when they stole Sanchez from City Lukaku from Chelsea and the money thrown away on the Pogba deal. Add the many defenders who have turned up to replace their last PL winners, none of which I believe Jose would class as good enough (I dont believe any of the defenders brought to the club during Jose's reign are his first choice) , you have to believe those who have stopped the money flow have to stick by this manager.

The question must be, who at the club has got cold feet? Must be someone very high up. Maybe its the family who need to pay off the interest on buying the club.

 

I don't believe there are 5 or 6 possible winners.  Other than Liverpool I can't see any team staying close to City.   Plus if they lost Salah for 3 or 4 months like City have lost de Bryune, the race could be over by Christmas.  

United hardly ever bought ready made world class players under Ferguson, we bought good players and usually but not always made them better. I think the last good player we bought and made better was de Gea and that maybe the impact of working in a shooting gallery. Players such as Depay, Shaw, Zaha and Martial have gotten worse at United.  So either we are scouting the wrong players or the people developing them aren't good enough.

I don't think the tap has been turned off, and the Glazers are hardly hurting for money, the club makes more than enough money to easily handle the debt.  I think the Glazer's and Woodward are refusing to pay large fees for players they believe aren't that much better than what we have.  It could be argued that Maguire, Van Dkye and Alderweireld are better than what we have, but £75m worth?  Woodward has said there was money for Varane and Koulibaly and Bale, but their clubs won't sell or those players are happy where they are. Certainly going to be a long season at OldTrafford.

 

 

[True Blue]

Jose after he came home