Everton Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

So we finished the transfer window by shipping out Iwobi and Cannon for nearly £30m, getting Maupay out the door and terminating Gbamin's contract so saving some money off the wage bill. Shame none of those last takings were reinvested. Not sure what happens with Gray and his move to Saudi but we won't be able to spend that money until January now.

The squad that finished 17th last season is only really stronger up front with the additions of Beto and Chermiti. Young replacing Vinagre as one of our two left backs I suppose goes down as "better than nothing". Iwobi and Gray replaced by Danjuma and Harrison in the wide areas could be described as breaking even but both of those players are on loan. We've lost Mina, Coady and Holgate from the centre back area with Branthwaite returning to the club. A probable downgrade in quality and certainly in depth. Right back area unchanged. Begovic has been replaced by Virginia as backup goalkeeper which isn't hugely significant but is still a slight weakening. In midfield we're mostly unchanged with Tom Davies leaving and Andre Gomes coming back, neither likely to see much game time under Dyche anyway. The one concern here is what happens when Gueye and Doucoure go to AFCON. Maybe that's where Dele Alli will play the 7 more games before we owe Spurs £10m.

Overall, the squad is weaker than what we had at the end of last season. We are forced to sell players without replacement because the club's cash flow problems continue thanks to the new stadium. Apparently Moshiri is waiting for that to be complete to boost the value of the club so he can make a sale. In the meantime, they gamble the Premier League status of the club on a squad that doesn't really even have two senior players for every position on the pitch.

As a fan and a spectator, I grew up proud to be an Everton fan even if we never had the best team or won trophies. Now we just wait for eventual relegation, and every time we finish 17th, the only prize is having to sit through one more relegation battle with a slightly weaker squad and hope we get away with it again. The only benefit to staying up is it gives us another 12 months for someone to come in and buy the club off Moshiri to turn things around.

I can't think of any reasons to still be arsed. There's nothing left except that irrational emotional connection you have to the club and I can even feel that starting to break. Football is supposed to be a hobby that brings you fun and joy. Being an Everton fan is an absolute chore in the present day and when you invest your time and emotion into something that just brings you negative feedback, at some point you have to detach yourself from it to some extent. I could take it if we were just shit with shit players but the manner of how we've got there being so heavily dependent on one or two people at the top of the club really just makes you realise it doesn't matter who's managing the team or playing for us, it isn't getting better so there's no point being excited or hopeful about any signings, matches, good transfer deals or occasional improved performances. The club in the long-term is still heading in only one direction.

[RandoEFC+]

As it stands, Everton are en route to go into administration, with the best hope of investment to stave that off coming from 777 Partners who have a disastrous track record in the clubs they've invested in across Europe and prompted protests from fans of clubs they've been involved with.

The thread below explains what a financial hole the club finds itself in thanks to the board and Kenwright getting into bed with Moshiri and Usmanov and their links to Russia which has led to them having their assets frozen due to the Ukraine war.

 

This is why Everton fans are just starting to check out from it all and aren't arsed about whether or not Demarai Gray is a little diva or not. That money we've just got for him goes straight toward paying off the mountain of debts and loans the club is saddled with. The Director of Football and manager won't see a penny of it.

[Dave]

Matt Slater did a dive in to Everton just before the season started and he described Everton as in 'the worst financial state for a Premier League club since Portsmouth' which shocked me. I just presumed you were in a similar 'tighten the purses' position we were in after Sam Allardyce.

[Dave]

After quickly googling 777 partners I'm astonished they're going to pass the fit and proper owners test.

[Whiskey]

2 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

After quickly googling 777 partners I'm astonished they're going to pass the fit and proper owners test.

Out of the frying pan FC

[RandoEFC+]

I can't really be arsed bemoaning the state of this football club any further. As I've said, an absolute corpse of a football club thanks to two men and yet it's the fans that really feel it. 

[Stan]

35 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

After quickly googling 777 partners I'm astonished they're going to pass the fit and proper owners test.

If this is even a thing when you look at some of the owners around the football pyramid...

[Whiskey]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

I can't really be arsed bemoaning the state of this football club any further. As I've said, an absolute corpse of a football club thanks to two men and yet it's the fans that really feel it. 

+1.

[El Profesor]

7 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

After quickly googling 777 partners I'm astonished they're going to pass the fit and proper owners test.

Definitely. They own Vasco da Gama here in Brazil. So far, 777 has done a horrible job. The club is in the relegation zone, after their worst season start in history. If I'm not wrong, it could be 777's third relegation, after Genoa Hertha Berlin. 

A terrible record. Hopefully Everton can find a better ownership. 

[RandoEFC+]

Didn't Sevilla have to sell a bunch of players this summer as well?

In better news they at least secured a £100m loan off MSP to fund the next chunk of the stadium project which is apparently significant in keeping us out of administration.

[Spike]

You’d think that a club that has been in the premier league for the entire duration would have financial stability just from the TV revenue. The club should bloody run itself at this point.

[El Profesor]

3 hours ago, Spike said:

You’d think that a club that has been in the premier league for the entire duration would have financial stability just from the TV revenue. The club should bloody run itself at this point.

Are there any teams in football that consistently make a profit from TV and attendance revenues? 

Brighton may make some decent money, I guess, but I am not sure it's sustainable to depend so much on player sales. I mean, you are always in need to find replacements and there is always a huge risk in recruiting new players.

In contrast to the american major leagues, it seems that football clubs have a really hard time from a financial point of view. 

I guess that's why 777 can take over a traditional club like Everton in Premier League for 600 million pounds, whereas even a team with a really small fanbase like the Miami Marlins was sold for more than a billion dollars. 

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Spike said:

You’d think that a club that has been in the premier league for the entire duration would have financial stability just from the TV revenue. The club should bloody run itself at this point.

They've been pretty poorly run for about 30 years, Moshiri's not the cause of the rot... he's just accelerated it pretty significantly. When you look at Everton's big signings over the last 5 or 6 years, it's really only Pickford that stands out as a good signing. Maybe Digne too. But other than that, not a great deal of quality has come into Everton. They've had players on high wages for a while, players who've come in and not really performed to the level of the wages offered. Then when you've got players who've come in and underperformed and new managers come in - they find themselves being unwanted and gone down in value because they've come into a club and looked dogshit.

No manager since Roberto Martinez (and I don't even think he was very good) has lasted more than 70 matches. They've gone through so many managers who all have different styles and ideas, while also having 2 DoFs (also with their own styles and plans for the team) - they've not given themselves real stability to improve over a course of a couple seasons. Each manager that's come in and gotten sacked has come in with their own staff, who've also gotten the sack. That's a lot of expense in itself.

The poor performances on the pitch have meant TV revenue's gone down compared to previous years where Everton weren't as shit. Things like COVID (£170m losses reported due to the pandemic) and spending a lot on players that don't perform with declining revenues over the years (looking like they're totaling over the £105m in losses allowed a year) add up. And it's a problem for Everton because you can't sell all your good players to get out of this financial hole if nobody wants to pay exorbitant amounts of money for those players. They managed to fleece Newcastle for that one dickhead they sold, but beyond that... who're they going to sell to get out of this financial hole? Pickford? How much can they get for him? 

I think they're even more fucked if they go down. I remember reading something saying they'd need to refinance a loan they've got for around £150m (not sure how that works out if their debt's meant to be £147m which was also in the same article, I'm pretty sure), with the way interest rates are right now that could be even more financial trouble for a club that's basically just a massive financial red flag.

They're proof it takes more than just money to turn a club that's been mismanaged for a very long time around. That money needs to be spent with purpose, otherwise they might as well have just made a pile of money and lit it on fire and persisted with Roberto Martinez, giving him a minimal budget. Instead they've wasted an absolute fortune and look worse for it.

[MUFC]

777 Partners.

[Dave]

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Says it all that I read this on Twitter about an hour ago, should be absolutely miserable/furious over it but had actually completely forgotten about it until I checked the forum.

Gonzo summed up a lot of things about why we're so fucked but it also goes even deeper than that. I listened to a podcast and it took "the esk" basically an hour and a half to describe in detail all of the debt, lack of stadium funding, wages vs turnover, the Ukraine war seeing Usmanov's assets frozen (he was the real financial muscle behind Moshiri), and the rest of it, so I'm not going to try and enlighten people by posting an essay and barely scratching the tip of the iceberg.

It's hard to see why fans should care anymore. It's one thing seeing your club get shitter and shitter. Let's not pretend that the David Moyes era was "good" by Everton's historical standard but it's the best I've ever known. You could be proud of the club and you'd prickle when people criticised them fairly or unfairly because you felt like a part of it.

Everton Football Club now feels like it's just a thing I follow out of habit. I still have the emotional attachment to the team but I don't bother getting excited about what they could achieve or worrying about the ownership situation because it's just the latest in a growing list of English (and non-English) football clubs that have been picked up as a play-thing by someone with too much money and will now be passed around between investment groups trying to make a quick buck or Middle Eastern governments with an ulterior motive.

Everton are probably the biggest club in England that have been absolutely ruined by incompetent ownership. Man Utd might argue but they don't face a potential existential crisis like we do because they'll never get relegated. It goes to show though that it could basically happen to any club.

[Reluctant Striker]

52 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Says it all that I read this on Twitter about an hour ago, should be absolutely miserable/furious over it but had actually completely forgotten about it until I checked the forum.

Gonzo summed up a lot of things about why we're so fucked but it also goes even deeper than that. I listened to a podcast and it took "the esk" basically an hour and a half to describe in detail all of the debt, lack of stadium funding, wages vs turnover, the Ukraine war seeing Usmanov's assets frozen (he was the real financial muscle behind Moshiri), and the rest of it, so I'm not going to try and enlighten people by posting an essay and barely scratching the tip of the iceberg.

It's hard to see why fans should care anymore. It's one thing seeing your club get shitter and shitter. Let's not pretend that the David Moyes era was "good" by Everton's historical standard but it's the best I've ever known. You could be proud of the club and you'd prickle when people criticised them fairly or unfairly because you felt like a part of it.

Everton Football Club now feels like it's just a thing I follow out of habit. I still have the emotional attachment to the team but I don't bother getting excited about what they could achieve or worrying about the ownership situation because it's just the latest in a growing list of English (and non-English) football clubs that have been picked up as a play-thing by someone with too much money and will now be passed around between investment groups trying to make a quick buck or Middle Eastern governments with an ulterior motive.

Everton are probably the biggest club in England that have been absolutely ruined by incompetent ownership. Man Utd might argue but they don't face a potential existential crisis like we do because they'll never get relegated. It goes to show though that it could basically happen to any club.

I do think it is sad when clubs who have known being a 'big club' and have not known success for a long time are supposedly hampered by FFP.

Not sure you can even quite claim to be biggest club ruined by bad management - ownership though. Everton still are one of 6 to never be relegated from the Premier League.

I do think it's fair to say there have to be plenty of questions that have never been answered as to how Leeds, Aston Villa & Newcastle have fallen, risen, fallen. Ok, Newcastle right now are closest to attempting a Man City revision of who is a big club.

Perhaps it is as easy as 'London' as to how & why Arsenal, Spurs & Chelsea are who they are, where they have been over the last 20 years, ahead of any combination of Leeds, Villa, Newcastle & Everton. But I doubt it. Bad or weak ownership has done plenty of damage to clubs that could have been so very different. And perhaps still could. Though FFP seems more built around maintaining status quo than it ever has been.

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, Reluctant Striker said:

I do think it is sad when clubs who have known being a 'big club' and have not known success for a long time are supposedly hampered by FFP.

Not sure you can even quite claim to be biggest club ruined by bad management - ownership though. Everton still are one of 6 to never be relegated from the Premier League.

I do think it's fair to say there have to be plenty of questions that have never been answered as to how Leeds, Aston Villa & Newcastle have fallen, risen, fallen. Ok, Newcastle right now are closest to attempting a Man City revision of who is a big club.

Perhaps it is as easy as 'London' as to how & why Arsenal, Spurs & Chelsea are who they are, where they have been over the last 20 years, ahead of any combination of Leeds, Villa, Newcastle & Everton. But I doubt it. Bad or weak ownership has done plenty of damage to clubs that could have been so very different. And perhaps still could. Though FFP seems more built around maintaining status quo than it ever has been.

It's not even really about the level of success. Obviously the on-pitch decay is a symptom but Everton had relegation battles in the 90s and 2000s and while I was very young at the time, nobody refers back to that as a time where they struggled to identify with the club like they do now. The fanbase is clinging on to the hope that as long as we stay in the Premier League there's a slim chance that somebody might want to buy us and run it properly.

I don't want to get into arguments about whether Everton, Aston Villa, Leeds or Newcastle are bigger than each other or not because it's irrelevant. Maybe the relegation comment isn't really what distinguishes Everton from Man Utd but if the Glazers decided to sell Man Utd, they actually have a chance of being salvaged by good owners. I don't really think Everton can be which is why I say that between them, Kenwright and Moshiri have ruined the club and 777 will continue to do so based on their track record.

I just can't be arsed anymore. The shite we've put up with throughout the past decade has been horrendous as an emotionally invested football fan. Other clubs have had worse but I'd probably limit that to the ones who have actually gone under and not many more. People might argue "at least you haven't got relegated" but come on, this is Everton. Next on the list of "most unthinkable relegations" would be Spurs. As far as football goes, it's been emotional torture watching the way this club has spiralled and I have absolutely no interest in trying to convince myself that a sale to the 777 cowboys has any chance whatsoever of being some sort of brave new chapter.

Where I'm at right now is that, whether this sale goes ahead or not, Everton will be relegated, into administration, probably then relegated again or reincarnated as a "phoenix club" within five years. Anything better than that is a bonus.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Every Everton fan I know:

[El Profesor]

Glass Half Full: there are lots of questions around 777 Partners, but there are also some reasons for optimism for evertonians. 

From what I've seen at Vasco, 777 at least is willing to put significant ammounts of money to strenghten their teams. Their lack of success here in Brazil, so far, is not a fruit of insuficient investiment. Their budget at the start of the season was over 20 million dollars, which is a considerable ammount for brazilian football. They also spent a lot more recently, before the transfer window closed, in order to save Vasco from relegation, including the signings of Dimitri Payet and Gary Medel. 

The problem seems that they hired the wrong personnel to be put in charge of the club. Probably due to inexperience in how to manage a football club. At least now they have a really good coach in Ramon Diaz and, like I've mentioned earlier, signed better players. One could point that they are learning from their mistakes.

Everton fans should expect a significant ammount of reinforcements for Everton in the winter transfer window.

IMO part of their lack of success is certainly due to the inexperience but also due to the fact that almost all clubs they bought were in a tough position to begin with. Vasco despite being one the biggest football teams in Brazil had already 4 relegations behind them in the last 2 decades. 

Lastly, Everton is clearly the most valuable asset from their football portfolio. They have every reason to try to make it work. Milan in a super tight spot when another american group, Elliot, took over and look where they are now.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Genoa fans seem to like 777 quite a bit, say they saved the club financially and gave them a new lease of life.

Sevilla fans seem to hate them.

[Coma+]

According to the Athletic 777 has already loaned Everton "tens of millions" to keep them afloat.  They can't invest in the club yet because they aren't approved owners, so they are loaning money in the interim.

[Stan]

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Relegation and 777 seem like the least of our concerns. Apparently that loan from 777 is £20m to keep the club afloat and will get us through one month.

Reading more and more about how administration is a genuine threat.

[LFCMike]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/breaking-everton-points-deduction-premierleague-31277275