Safe Standing

[Inverted]

When I went to watch Brondby play Nordsjaelland the standing tribune was the only part of the stadium that was full. The seated stands had a reasonable scattering of families and some older supporters. Of course the ultras concentrate in the standing section, but it was largely filled with normal fans, like normal middle-aged guys and their wives. Me and the group of mostly Germans I was there with stood and watched, speaking English, quite happily.

Having never watched a match from a traditional terrace I was surprised at how effortless it was. For anyone in moderate physical condition without any conditions, it's quite easy to stand, and it saves a lot of the bother or stress you get in seating areas.

[LFCMike]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207040

About 22,000 to go

[Bluewolf]

19 hours ago, Inverted said:

When I went to watch Brondby play Nordsjaelland the standing tribune was the only part of the stadium that was full. The seated stands had a reasonable scattering of families and some older supporters. Of course the ultras concentrate in the standing section, but it was largely filled with normal fans, like normal middle-aged guys and their wives. Me and the group of mostly Germans I was there with stood and watched, speaking English, quite happily.

Having never watched a match from a traditional terrace I was surprised at how effortless it was. For anyone in moderate physical condition without any conditions, it's quite easy to stand, and it saves a lot of the bother or stress you get in seating areas.

There is more freedom in standing than sitting for me but each to their own as everyone has a different idea of what they consider to be a decent match going experience I suppose. If I take my daughter to games she sits because it's all she has known at a football ground but moans at me if she has someone tall in front of us when we are constantly standing up etc she can't always see whats going on.. If you had a standing section somewhere in the ground then she might get to see more of the game and get more enjoyment from it for example... Which brings me onto another bit about safe standing..

In most cases but not all ( because I am not sure how each of the clubs that has safe standing allocate it out ) but I should imagine any areas given are mostly dominated by the hard core fans and I would be fucked if I would allow my daughter to be mixing in with that lot as it can just be too much of a hostile environment for someone like her even if I am with her so a more family friendly section and possibly even one for the slightly younger kids could maybe get introduced at some point.. 

As you say though it's not exactly a marathon to stand up for a game for 90 odd minutes is it... To be honest the time flies fairly quickly unless you are watching someone like Stoke when time just seems to drag along like a double science lesson... The rail seating in the standing sections have seats allocated behind them that just drop down anyway if someone does feel the need to sit down for any reason... 

[Inverted]

1 hour ago, Bluewolf said:

There is more freedom in standing than sitting for me but each to their own as everyone has a different idea of what they consider to be a decent match going experience I suppose. If I take my daughter to games she sits because it's all she has known at a football ground but moans at me if she has someone tall in front of us when we are constantly standing up etc she can't always see whats going on.. If you had a standing section somewhere in the ground then she might get to see more of the game and get more enjoyment from it for example... Which brings me onto another bit about safe standing..

In most cases but not all ( because I am not sure how each of the clubs that has safe standing allocate it out ) but I should imagine any areas given are mostly dominated by the hard core fans and I would be fucked if I would allow my daughter to be mixing in with that lot as it can just be too much of a hostile environment for someone like her even if I am with her so a more family friendly section and possibly even one for the slightly younger kids could maybe get introduced at some point.. 

As you say though it's not exactly a marathon to stand up for a game for 90 odd minutes is it... To be honest the time flies fairly quickly unless you are watching someone like Stoke when time just seems to drag along like a double science lesson... The rail seating in the standing sections have seats allocated behind them that just drop down anyway if someone does feel the need to sit down for any reason... 

To me I'm always bothered by the reverse situation from your daughter. I'm tall and I'm always very conscious of the fact that if I stand I'm very likely spoiling it for someone. 

And sadly at least for the Celtic ones I'm fairly sure they're locked in position. There's a little keyhole and staff either lock them down for European matches or lock them upright for doemstic games, so they can't be brought up or down at will mid-match. Though I think it would be better if they could.

[LFCMike]

On 20/04/2018 at 08:59, LFCMike said:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207040

About 22,000 to go

A petition asking for Premier League and Championship clubs to be allowed to have safe-standing at their stadiums has been signed by 100,000 people.

It means the petition will now be considered for debate by MPs in the House of Commons.

The UK government said earlier this month there were no plans to change the all-seater policy after West Brom had a safe-standing proposal rejected.

[Stan]

hopefully they have a proper serious look at it now and not just write it off like that Sports Minister did earlier this month.

seen a few clubs (Palace yesterday and Villa today) promote the petition on Twitter which is good. 

[Guest]

I think it would be good if there were standing and seating areas. I have leg problems and would struggle to stand in the same place for a whole match.  But I think others who want to should have the opportunity if it's safe. To be fair I can understand why the government is being very cautious.

[Storts]

I'll see what I can do 

[Stan]

Just now, Storts said:

I'll see what I can do 

Not happy it's taken this long storts

[Storts]

21 minutes ago, Stan said:

Not happy it's taken this long storts

Sorry  

[Dan+]

Good work all. Not very hopeful that common sense will prevail as you only have to see Tracey Crouch's comments to prove that ignorance on the subject is as strong as ever.

The biggest cock up in hindsight that people made was calling it safe standing. People make this weird assumption that it's a return back to terracing and fail to objectively look at how different it is. They should've called it rail seating from the off and maybe people wouldn't be so automatically against the idea.

There's also a constant narrative that it means everyone has to stand. Again, ridiculous, and ignorant of the situation. No-one will be forced to stand. It's simply offering a choice - you know, like you don't get now, despite the fact standing still actually happens at every ground in the top two tiers anyway. It isn't just people who stand who will see benefits of this, those who prefer to sit will have less confrontation going forward you would hope.

Atmosphere. Of course safe standing alone doesn't create atmosphere, the fans do, but anyone who pretends that a crowd standing isn't louder than a crowd sitting as a general rule is kidding nobody but themselves.

It works abroad, it can work here. If they're happy to use that narrative to introduce a winter break, then surely it applies here? Assume not. Also laughable how anyone believes the PL survey results as well.

[Danny]

No idea why it's safe in League One and League Two but not in Championship and above.

[Honey Honey]

Some will stand wherever they want so the word safe should be dropped and just ask for what it really is, standing in a measured capacity area.

[Stan]

 

[Dave]

Government officials have spoken with the Premier League and EFL about reviewing the law on all-seater stadiums and introducing safe standing.

[Stan]

Good. Hope they seriously consider professional views and not just go off their own assumption that it's all dangerous. 

[ScoRoss]

 

[Stan]

FA to support safe-standing, depending on evidence provided. Good news to have encouragement and support from them. Just hope the evidence stacks up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45341192

Quote

 

The Football Association has lent its support to safe standing at football grounds in England if there is "clear evidence that satisfies authorities".

The Premier League and EFL have also said they would support clubs' choice to install safe standing in the top two tiers of English football.

A government review is ongoing with a conclusion expected by the end of 2018.

Standing in English football's top two divisions was outlawed by the Football Spectators' Act in 1989.

It came following recommendations made in the Taylor Report into the Hillsborough disaster, which claimed the lives of 96 Liverpool fans.

An FA spokesperson said: "The FA supported the announcement from Sports Minister Tracey Crouch in June to conduct an external analysis of evidence in relation to the all-seater policy".

The statement added that the FA "supports clubs and leagues in having the option to choose whether they wish to provide standing options for supporters should there be clear evidence that satisfies the authorities over safety and security".

Support from fans has been growing for safe standing in recent years, with Celtic already adopting rail seating at their Celtic Park stadium.

In a recent survey run by the EFL, 94% of the 33,000 respondents said fans should be allowed to choose whether they wanted to stand or sit at games.

And in a Premier League survey, 70% of fans who attended games agreed in principle that standing should be offered as a choice.

Sports Minister Tracey Crouch said her "mind was open" to safe standing during a parliamentary debate in June after apologising for saying only a "vocal minority" wanted standing areas.

The Football Supporters' Federation (FSF), which has been campaigning for the introduction of safe standing to combat the problem of people standing up in seats and potentially causing injury, said the FA's support was "hugely encouraging".

But FSF's Peter Daykin said the FA's stance was "not surprising" as fans at Wembley often stood during games. "The FA understands the issues all too well," he added.

"The government said it wouldn't move until all the football authorities spoke with one voice, which is understandable, but now they are, all eyes are on the review.

"We are happy for the government to take its time with the review. We want a thorough understanding of all the arguments and it's too important an issue to rush."

 

 

[Danny]

Still the fucking authorities to go though.

[Burning Gold]

I've never been to a ground with safe standing, but I can imagine it leading to a situation in which you're not allowed to stand ever in the seated area. I'm not opposed to it in principle, but for that reason I hope it doesn't come in.

Not convinced by the arguments in favour of it either. "It'll allow people to stand if they want to, and atmospheres will improve" coming from people who already stand in grounds with shit atmosphere.

[Stan]

14 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

I've never been to a ground with safe standing, but I can imagine it leading to a situation in which you're not allowed to stand ever in the seated area. I'm not opposed to it in principle, but for that reason I hope it doesn't come in.

Not convinced by the arguments in favour of it either. "It'll allow people to stand if they want to, and atmospheres will improve" coming from people who already stand in grounds with shit atmosphere.

but you'll have dedicated areas for standing, as opposed to pockets of people standing (then getting told to sit down by stewards as they are now). So atmospheres might improve if you have sections of thousands of people standing i.e. Celtic Park sounds immense when that section gets going.

 

[Marc]

I'm very pro safe standing but I do agree with this:

4 hours ago, Burning Gold said:

I've never been to a ground with safe standing, but I can imagine it leading to a situation in which you're not allowed to stand ever in the seated area. I'm not opposed to it in principle, but for that reason I hope it doesn't come in.

Not convinced by the arguments in favour of it either. "It'll allow people to stand if they want to, and atmospheres will improve" coming from people who already stand in grounds with shit atmosphere.

It's often been an excuse or reason for shit atmospheres. I can't see it instantly improving 10 fold. The problems lie far deeper and i doubt safe standing will reduce ticket prices

[Danny]

It won't improve the atmosphere but with that said, the atmosphere at Griffin Park comes from the terrace.

What clubs need are younger fans grouping together similar to how ultras on the continent have, but trying to create a typically English atmosphere in terms of song books and chants rather than copying songs from the continent that make no sense in an English culture.

[Burning Gold]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

I'm very pro safe standing but I do agree with this:

It's often been an excuse or reason for shit atmospheres. I can't see it instantly improving 10 fold. The problems lie far deeper and i doubt safe standing will reduce ticket prices

Oh there's absolutely no chance it'll reduce ticket prices. If anything, standing tickets will be more expensive because it's a better 'match experience' or something.

[Honey Honey]

Let's just call out safe standing for what it actually is, the implementation of aesthetically ugly railings so jobsworths can save face over the fact that there was never anything majorly wrong with standing up infront of your seat.