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Safe Standing


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  • 4 weeks later...

I've never quite got the appeal of safe standing and standing in general, if I'm honest. I've stood on many a terrace and sat in many more grounds and I don't get why it's perceived to be better or contribute to the atmosphere. I find that people who want to stand at Football grounds now do so anyway and people who sit do that. 

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17 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I've never quite got the appeal of safe standing and standing in general, if I'm honest. I've stood on many a terrace and sat in many more grounds and I don't get why it's perceived to be better or contribute to the atmosphere. I find that people who want to stand at Football grounds now do so anyway and people who sit do that. 

Yeah exactly this. 

A standing section here for example isn't gonna improve the atmosphere for an early Saturday game against Swansea. Not in the long run anyway. 

Stand at every away ground these days and the majority of the big home games you're always on your feet. 

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If you want an atmosphere you need a section with a conductor. That's what they do in those raved about clubs on the continent. English atmospheres are sporadic and depend on a number of variables.

However personally I do prefer a crowd that responds to a game over a crowd that makes the same noise no matter what.

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47 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

The problem is where you get seated can be the luck of the draw. Of course everyone stands away, it's part of the ethos. However, having some fucking grandma tell you to sit down because she can't see is annoying as fuck and she'll always win.

The domino effect though! You'll have to tell the one in front to do so too... and on and on! xD

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Don't go the match anymore so doesn't affect me but it's surely all about choice. There's plenty who don't want to stand but may unknowingly end up in an unofficial standing area and depending on how forceful the stewards are it can cause big issues between fellow fans. Clear designated safe standing areas would solve that issue. As mentioned, the majority of away fans stand these days anyway but what about those who don't want to? Why not have a few rows at the front seated and the rest safe standing? Same goes for cup finals at Wembley, make behind the goals safe standing so people have a choice.

It's also about safety. Seated areas are not the safest areas for the more animated supporters if they're standing all game. A bar in front that comes above your waist is much safer than a little plastic seat that is shin height

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On 07/04/2017 at 4:22 PM, HoneyNUFC said:

If you want an atmosphere you need a section with a conductor. That's what they do in those raved about clubs on the continent. English atmospheres are sporadic and depend on a number of variables.

However personally I do prefer a crowd that responds to a game over a crowd that makes the same noise no matter what.

That's one thing I much prefer with a 'British' atmosphere at a game rather than a more continental atmosphere is the most more reactional crowd. The constant 'drone' of a crowd doesn't inspire anything in my opinion.

We already have the 'right' to have safe standing at all levels in Scotland, but so far only Celtic have taken it up as the cost of it with no increase in revenue to come from it. I live in hope that when Aberdeen's new stadium is complete that one end will be a complete safe standing stand. It won't take away someone's preferred seat and will hopefully improve atmospheres.

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On 4/7/2017 at 6:07 PM, DeadLinesman said:

The problem is where you get seated can be the luck of the draw. Of course everyone stands away, it's part of the ethos. However, having some fucking grandma tell you to sit down because she can't see is annoying as fuck and she'll always win.

Not if you move.

It's a matter of when, not if. Typical of this country that we're pissing around with it for ages when there's never once been a proper argument against it.

Haven't sat down at a game in a good 5 years now. Home or away. It's easily done.

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As someone who had a season ticket in a terrace I can easily say I'd prefer to stand than sit. It just feels like a passive way to support your team. I get why people need to, elderly, disabled, young families. And I get why people just want to sit sometimes as well, but personally if I were to sit then I'd do it with the intent of analysing the game rather than supporting my team.

I can say that just because there's a terrace doesn't mean there will be an improvement on the atmosphere, but it does help. Ealing Road terrace at Griffin Park generally leads the atmosphere, it's good when other stands get involved but the terrace will always be the end that consistently makes more noise.

Safe standing would offer people the chance to create their own atmospheres around like minded people though as opposed to trying to get a chant going surrounded by people sat down and clapping occasionally.

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4 hours ago, Dan said:

Not if you move.

It's a matter of when, not if. Typical of this country that we're pissing around with it for ages when there's never once been a proper argument against it.

Haven't sat down at a game in a good 5 years now. Home or away. It's easily done.

Away no problem. Not a chance at Old Trafford unless your upper tier Stretford End or K Stand.

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4 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Away no problem. Not a chance at Old Trafford unless your upper tier Stretford End or K Stand.

Nearly everyone stands away these days I think. It's not that hard to stand at ours. Our Kop is full of pensioners so they won't stand on mass but it's easy enough to get into a block that does, there are pockets of it all over.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
1 minute ago, Cannabis said:

I've been in contact with Everton regarding our new stadium as they are welcoming fan feedback and I've asked about safe standing. I'd love for us to have a noisy, standing section tucked into the corner of our new ground, it'd improve the atmosphere ten-fold.

I'd go further than a corner and say I'd want at least a whole stand behind a goal to become that. If we ever go through with our expansion that we keep talking about, put another tier on the Kop - make that new bit where those who want to sit go, and make the lower tier (the current Kop) standing. Genuinely think we'd have the demand.

As it is now I think our Kop is a mix of people who want to and don't, but those who don't come out on top simply because they're towards the back - when we build our ground they gave people in our old two tiered Kop first dibs on where to go in the new one so naturally those on the upper tier went towards the back and those on the lower went towards the front. Sure enough, you've now got this situation.

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  • 6 months later...

Safe standing to me is like goal line technology. It's a common sense solution, there are no losers (seriously, people who think this means the whole ground gets converted to standing are plain ignorant) yet for some reason it just doesn't get the push. There's clearly a demand for it. It benefits both those who want to stand and those who want to sit.

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  • 2 months later...

Shame :(. About the only good thing they've done all season and it gets rejected. 

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing at The Hawthorns rejected by the government.

Quote

 

The pilot scheme would have meant 3,600 seats in the Smethwick End were converted to 'rail seats', which can be locked in an upright position.

West Brom - who are bottom of the Premier League - hoped to install them in time for next season.

Sports minister Tracey Crouch says there are no plans to change the all-seater policy at football stadiums.

That law was introduced followed recommendations made in the Taylor Report into the 1989 Hillsborough disaster, which claimed the lives of 96 Liverpool fans.

But West Brom say their proposal was based on safety concerns, because of persistent standing.

The club's director of operations Mark Miles, who has led the proposal, described the decision as "surprising" and "disappointing".

"I think the minister has taken a short-sighted view and is preventing the club from creating a safer environment for supporters," he said.

"The all-seater policy was developed over 25 years ago and football is a very different place now."

Miles has travelled to Scottish champions Celtic and German club TSG 1899 Hoffenheim, where the same system is used.

"The system we proposed is well tested across Europe and has also worked successfully at Celtic, who are governed by different legislation than in England and Wales," he said.

"We were prepared to run a pilot which would enable the club to gather data and feedback to further inform us in the issue of crowd safety.

"But I have become convinced that rail seating would enhance safety. The club is extremely disappointed with this decision and we have written back requesting a review."

A spokesperson for the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport said: "We have no plans to change our position and introduce standing accommodation at grounds in the top two divisions covered by the all-seater policy.

"Alongside the sports ground safety authority we will continue to monitor the issue of spectator accommodation and the use of safe standing where it is permitted."

How would it have worked?

The standing positions would have been offered to both home and away supporters.

Away fans would have been given a choice of whether to stand in the upper section of the stand or sit in the lower part.

Ticket prices were expected to remain unchanged and the necessary changes would have been completed in time for the new season in August, when the Baggies are likely to be playing in the Championship.

West Brom's safety officials have tried a number of initiatives to resolve the problem of persistent standing in certain areas of the ground.

The club sought to allay security fears and problems with identifying troublesome fans by highlighting their high-resolution cameras fitted in the stands.

Advanced ticketing and new turnstile operations have also been introduced in recent years.

Officials are also said to have emphasised they would enforce a much more stringent requirement for fans in other sections of regular seating to remain seated.

 

 

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An example of pure governmental inertia. Policy-makers just clinging to the status quo rather than bothering to expend the tiny mental effort to understand the overwhelming lack of empirical justifcation for it. 

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