Bournemouth

[Rick]

I didn't realise they had spent that much! 

Howe is the media Darling, and while he's done a wonderful job for then to this point he has to improve big time, their form in the second half of the season is terrible.

[6666]

Being Bournemouth and paying £19m for Solanke after his disaster spell at Liverpool is criminal.

[Dan+]

I'm somewhere down the middle when it comes to Howe. Someone described them as the anti-Sunderland in that they seem to start well and finish badly rather than start badly and finish well like what Sunderland always did, granted they're a better side than Sunderland were.

I think Howe's a good manager who has done a brilliant job to get them as high as he has but I think he's probably hit a ceiling. I think Tottenham is the only club in the top six where he'd have a sniff of the manager's job and I think they would be able to attract better, yet is there any other job that's enough of a step up from Bournemouth to justify leaving what you've got to say now is a pretty steady Premier League side?

They like to spend a lot on young players but looking at some of their business you've got to question how well it's worked. Brooks and Ake have been their best signings but I'm far from convinced by some of the others.

They'll not go down next year, I'm confident of that - you'll have plenty tipping them as an outside bet to go down next season based on how badly they've finished this year but there will be three worse sides.

Seriously got to sort out this tendency to get whacked though. As I said earlier in the thread I think the big boys collective favourite fixture must be Bournemouth at home. Their record away at them bar one superb win at Chelsea is abysmal. You'd back them over anyone to be tanked 5-0.

[Dan+]

3 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Being Bournemouth and paying £19m for Solanke after his disaster spell at Liverpool is criminal.

I cannot believe the fees Liverpool take for some of their players. It's absolutely unreal that they can take that, £15mil for Ibe, £12mil for Ward, I'm sure there are others.

Coutinho was at least £50mil too much as well.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I've got mixed feelings on Howe. I respect that he is committed to playing attacking football, but his refusal to adapt in situations where his side are likely to get torn apart... and then they just get ripped to fucking shreds isn't good for the club's prospects over the course of a season. It's just not pragmatic to always be committed to attacking football, sometimes you've got to be able to mix it up and play ugly. But then there's also times when they go on runs like this - where it doesn't matter if they're playing anyone good or not, they just look unlikely to get a win (unless they're playing Huddersfield). And that also doesn't really reflect great on Howe.

He keeps getting tricked into thinking we're selling him incredible players when we're just sending over average players in Ibe and Solanke. That enough reasoning is to hope that Howe stays in the league and keeps signing deadwood from us.

[LFCMike]

5 minutes ago, Dan said:

I cannot believe the fees Liverpool take for some of their players. It's absolutely unreal that they can take that, £15mil for Ibe, £12mil for Ward, I'm sure there are others.

Coutinho was at least £50mil too much as well.

Got the £30m or whatever it was back for Benteke. Sakho £20-odd million too

[Dan+]

20 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Got the £30m or whatever it was back for Benteke. Sakho £20-odd million too

We get fucking £30mil for Kante

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, Dan said:

We get fucking £30mil for Kante

60 million actually. 

Took Drinkwater off your hands as a bonus

[LFCMadLad]

54 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Being Bournemouth and paying £19m for Solanke after his disaster spell at Liverpool is criminal.

Disaster spell?

We took him from Chelsea reserves, put him on our bench with the occasional start which gave him a decent shot of being a first team Premiere League striker.

Great move for him and us. 

[RandoEFC+]

Not a disaster spell but a pretty big waste of 18 months from Solanke's point of view. His stock was pretty much parallel with Dominic Calvert-Lewin when he signed for Liverpool. In fact if I'm not mistaken, Solanke was part of the U21 World Cup winning side and the top scorer while Calvert-Lewin was still in the U20 team. Solanke has been warming a bench for 18 months while Calvert-Lewin has been establishing himself in the first team of a top half side and is probably getting close to a full international call up while Solanke is basically starting from scratch at Bournemouth which is a process he could have started much earlier if he hadn't gone to Liverpool.

As for Howe, I do think he's a good manager but when you get to a glass ceiling with a football club, which is what Bournemouth have reached as it's almost impossible for them to get much above 9th or 10th in the league, anything below that looks like a step back and we know how the media and club owners are with managers of mid table clubs who slip a bit towards relegation. He also is a bit of a media darling and it gets mentioned a lot more how much money other clubs and managers have spent whereas it gets completely ignored when they get absolutely mugged off splashing out ridiculous money for players like Solanke and Ibe who barely improve their squad.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I know this is probably going to derail the topic here... but is Calvert-Lewin really close to a full international call up? He's not exactly got great output. 34 appearances this season, 8 goals (6 in the league) and 1 assist.

Back on the topic (sort of), in Solanke's case, he was at Chelsea first so he'd have to leave in any case to get his chance. I think he was probably too unproven to get a chance at most top flight clubs as a starter - so I think his choices were either go to a top flight club as a backup or drop down a division and try to get more football that way.

I don't really blame him for wanting to have another shot at a big club... although I think if I were in his shoes, I'd probably drop down a level for the more regular football as that's more important to his development. I think he's got a lot of raw ability and he's also got a nice deft touch of the ball and pretty decent vision - he probably would have been a bigger hit with us if he'd had more experience in front of goal and gave us some more attacking output. But his biggest problem isn't his overall qualities as a player, it's the output in the final third. And that made him too big of a step down from Bobby to really sufficiently be backup to him.

Still plenty of potential there, but he's got to be playing regular first team football at this point in his career otherwise I don't think he'll kick on until too late.

[LFCMike]

32 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Not a disaster spell but a pretty big waste of 18 months from Solanke's point of view. His stock was pretty much parallel with Dominic Calvert-Lewin when he signed for Liverpool. In fact if I'm not mistaken, Solanke was part of the U21 World Cup winning side and the top scorer while Calvert-Lewin was still in the U20 team. Solanke has been warming a bench for 18 months while Calvert-Lewin has been establishing himself in the first team of a top half side and is probably getting close to a full international call up while Solanke is basically starting from scratch at Bournemouth which is a process he could have started much earlier if he hadn't gone to Liverpool.

.

Solanke's already had a call up to the senior squad believe it or not. Don't see either of them getting one (another in Solanke's case) anytime soon though.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Cannabis said:

@Dr. Gonzo

DCL is more of a hold up striker so I wouldn't look into his goals per game too much. That said, I don't think he's England ready just yet. 

On the other hand, is it that much of a risk to play him against dross like Bulgaria and Kosovo?

I mean, I wouldn't look into his goals per game too much if he'd also had a lot of assists. I know stat's don't paint the full picture of a players' quality, but Calvin-Lewin's always been a player that's impressed me with their work rate and attitude more than his actual qualities as a forward/striker.

[RandoEFC+]

Calvert-Lewin has media momentum on his side now and (warning: edgy comment ahead) is a young black player with a social media presence and a double barrelled surname as an added bonus. He'll be in the England squad soon whether he's ready or not. There's also not exactly a wealth of competition in that position and any relatively decent Premier League striker can look half decent against Slovenia, Cyprus or whatever dross England have to qualify against this time around.

[LFCMike]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I know this is probably going to derail the topic here... but is Calvert-Lewin really close to a full international call up? He's not exactly got great output. 34 appearances this season, 8 goals (6 in the league) and 1 assist.

.

Doubt it, he's crap

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Calvert-Lewin has media momentum on his side now and (warning: edgy comment ahead) is a young black player with a social media presence and a double barrelled surname as an added bonus. He'll be in the England squad soon whether he's ready or not. There's also not exactly a wealth of competition in that position and any relatively decent Premier League striker can look half decent against Slovenia, Cyprus or whatever dross England have to qualify against this time around.

That's all well and good until you've got another 0-0 with Algeria situation, where we've got an unacceptably poor result against a side we should have comfortably beaten ("But Gonzo, Sir Gareth is much better than Woy" - true, but I don't think that just because we made one semi-final that we can start taking things lightly with the national side; don't want to end up like Croatia and making a final and then getting humiliated by Hungary).

[RandoEFC+]

Solanke has 1 goal in 29 appearances and apparently has an England call up which I wasn't aware of which just goes to show how easy it is to get in the squad. Makes Calvert-Lewin look prolific.

My point wasn't even about Calvert-Lewin getting into the England squad but a natural comparison with a similar player to Solanke whose stock has risen considerably compared to Solanke by actually playing football in the last 18 months instead of sitting on a bench.

Nor does it affect my other point that spending €28m or whatever it was on Solanke is absolutely horrendous business from Howe and Bournemouths point of view.

[RandoEFC+]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's all well and good until you've got another 0-0 with Algeria situation, where we've got an unacceptably poor result against a side we should have comfortably beaten ("But Gonzo, Sir Gareth is much better than Woy" - true, but I don't think that just because we made one semi-final that we can start taking things lightly with the national side; don't want to end up like Croatia and making a final and then getting humiliated by Hungary).

None of that has any impact on the fact that if Southgate wants to call up 4 strikers that he doesn't have much to choose from after Kane, whether it's Calvert-Lewin, Solanke, Wilson, Welbeck or god knows who else.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

None of that has any impact on the fact that if Southgate wants to call up 4 strikers that he doesn't have much to choose from after Kane, whether it's Calvert-Lewin, Solanke, Wilson, Welbeck or god knows who else.

Right well, I'd scratch Calvert-Lewin and Solanke off that list pretty much instantaneously. Wilson's got 11 goals in 25 appearances with 6 assists in the league alone - that's already a lot more productivity. Welbeck is a dogshite option to have to call up, but he does have the fact that he's actually got a decent record for England on his side - but yeah, an uninspiring callup. I think there's no good argument for not calling up Wilson on this season's form though behind Kane though.

I think there's more deserving players ahead of Calvert-Lewin and Solanke, even if they're not attractive options that inspire a lot of confidence in the England side. One's pretty unproven and hasn't demonstrated a whole lot in the way of attacking output. The other is much more proven and similarly hasn't demonstrated a whole lot in the way of attacking output. Glenn Murray, for instance, is not the most inspiring callup to the England team... but his goal record in the last few seasons in the prem makes him worth consideration. Danny Ings has a similar goal record to Calvert-Lewin... with substantially less appearances/minutes for Southampton.

He's not like Heskey, where sure the goal record might not be great (although remember when he was good at scoring? at Leicester and in his first year at Liverpool. Fun times, kind of a shame he started to have the composure of a wet fart after that)… you could at least point to a successful partnership with his main strike partner (which England doesn't do anymore because football has changed) and plenty of assists from the knockdowns and holdup play. Actual attacking output. Same with Crouch, but Crouch had 22 in 42 for England and, up until recently, was one of the top 10 assisters in premier league history.

So yeah, we might not have a whole lot in the way of attacking options for England... but I think it's too risky for England to go with players that just don't consistently deliver. The only time I've ever seen it work out with England is Welbeck... and I literally have no explanation as to how his record with England is good despite being an incredibly wasteful attacker. But how much better are England now that we aren't relying on him?

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Right well, I'd scratch Calvert-Lewin and Solanke off that list pretty much instantaneously. Wilson's got 11 goals in 25 appearances with 6 assists in the league alone - that's already a lot more productivity. Welbeck is a dogshite option to have to call up, but he does have the fact that he's actually got a decent record for England on his side - but yeah, an uninspiring callup. I think there's no good argument for not calling up Wilson on this season's form though behind Kane though.

I think there's more deserving players ahead of Calvert-Lewin and Solanke, even if they're not attractive options that inspire a lot of confidence in the England side. One's pretty unproven and hasn't demonstrated a whole lot in the way of attacking output. The other is much more proven and similarly hasn't demonstrated a whole lot in the way of attacking output. Glenn Murray, for instance, is not the most inspiring callup to the England team... but his goal record in the last few seasons in the prem makes him worth consideration. Danny Ings has a similar goal record to Calvert-Lewin... with substantially less appearances/minutes for Southampton.

He's not like Heskey, where sure the goal record might not be great (although remember when he was good at scoring? at Leicester and in his first year at Liverpool. Fun times, kind of a shame he started to have the composure of a wet fart after that)… you could at least point to a successful partnership with his main strike partner (which England doesn't do anymore because football has changed) and plenty of assists from the knockdowns and holdup play. Actual attacking output. Same with Crouch, but Crouch had 22 in 42 for England and, up until recently, was one of the top 10 assisters in premier league history.

So yeah, we might not have a whole lot in the way of attacking options for England... but I think it's too risky for England to go with players that just don't consistently deliver. The only time I've ever seen it work out with England is Welbeck... and I literally have no explanation as to how his record with England is good despite being an incredibly wasteful attacker. But how much better are England now that we aren't relying on him?

This is a debate for another thread and I literally can't be arsed with an off hand comment comparing Solanke to Calvert-Lewin and at no point saying Calvert-Lewin should be called up to the England squad turning into an essay writing contest about whether or not Calvert-Lewin should become an England international because everyone can see the point I was making apart from two Liverpool fans who are all over a conparison involving an Everton player like flies on faeces.

The one counter point I'll bother to make is that if you look at the pattern of players Southgate has called up to the England squad you'll see that he's much more likely to go for a developing young talent who has impressed for the youth teams like Calvert-Lewin (or Solanke if he nails down a starting berth for Bournemouth and finds some form) than a target man like Glenn Murray who doesn't fit his system at all. Ings might have a shout if he can stay fit.

I'm not confident enough to say quote me on it but I'd say there's more than a 50% chance that Calvert-Lewin gets called up to the full England squad by the end of next season and that's the last I'll say on the matter.

Anything else you've got on Howe or the signing of Solanke I'm happy to debate with you.

[6666]

47 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Solanke has 1 goal in 29 appearances and apparently has an England call up which I wasn't aware of which just goes to show how easy it is to get in the squad. Makes Calvert-Lewin look prolific.

Yeah, but he was playing for Liverpool. Playing for them or the other media darlings, Tottenham, increases your chances for a call up ten fold. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

17 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

This is a debate for another thread and I literally can't be arsed with an off hand comment comparing Solanke to Calvert-Lewin and at no point saying Calvert-Lewin should be called up to the England squad turning into an essay writing contest about whether or not Calvert-Lewin should become an England international because everyone can see the point I was making apart from two Liverpool fans who are all over a conparison involving an Everton player like flies on faeces.

The one counter point I'll bother to make is that if you look at the pattern of players Southgate has called up to the England squad you'll see that he's much more likely to go for a developing young talent who has impressed for the youth teams like Calvert-Lewin (or Solanke if he nails down a starting berth for Bournemouth and finds some form) than a target man like Glenn Murray who doesn't fit his system at all. Ings might have a shout if he can stay fit.

I'm not confident enough to say quote me on it but I'd say there's more than a 50% chance that Calvert-Lewin gets called up to the full England squad by the end of next season and that's the last I'll say on the matter.

Anything else you've got on Howe or the signing of Solanke I'm happy to debate with you.

That's fair enough. I don't think he's good enough, but yeah he's more likely to push a young player through than give Glenn Murray a chance. But as far as both young strikers go, I think they're both a bit poo (Calvert-Lewin obviously a bit less poo) and probably shouldn't be near the England squad based off that alone. And this debate was spurned from that comment that he's close to the England squad. And I think it'd be mental if he were called up - but beyond Kane, England doesn't have much in the way of options.

As for the Solanke signing... when we sold him for that much, I couldn't believe it. Ibe showed more quality with us than Solanke ever did (granted, Solanke did show glimpses of quality - but again, without that attacking output was never going to be good enough even as a backup). And we got more for Solanke than we did for Ibe, I think and that's mental.

I think pretty much everyone would agree... strange bit of business from Bournemouth there... but definitely good business for us.

I honestly don't know how I feel about Howe though. As I said in that other post earlier, I admire that he's committed to attacking football. But there's a lot of questionable decisions made with the tactics at Bournemouth that make me question if he would successfully be able to take a midtable side (or better) and kick them on to the next level. I'm not convinced. And then if you pair that with the amount of money Bournemouth have spent... I'm not sure if it's a great endorsement for Howe.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Yeah, but he was playing for Liverpool. Playing for them or the other media darlings, Tottenham, increases your chances for a call up ten fold. 

As if Arsenal aren't also media darlings - all of the big clubs get special treatment from the media, because if the league is the product, the bigger clubs are the poster children of that product, and the media are selling that product.

[Stan]

£13m seems quite steep.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48319512

Quote

 

Bournemouth have signed England Under-21 defender Lloyd Kelly from Bristol City for £13m.

The 20-year-old passed a medical on Saturday and has agreed terms on a long-term contract.

Kelly made his league debut for City in December 2017 and his England U21 debut in November 2018.

He played 32 games in the Championship this season as the Robins, who have described the fee received for Kelly as a "club record", finished eighth.

In a statement on Bournemouth's website, Kelly said he "always wanted" to play in the Premier League.

"The move has come around quite quickly, but I'm happy to be here and can't wait to start playing," he said.

Bournemouth boss Eddie Howe described Kelly as "athletic, versatile, physically excellent with a very bright future ahead of him".

City head coach Lee Johnson said Kelly was "a pleasure to work with" and would "always be welcome back at Ashton Gate".

Chief executive Mark Ashton said he was "proud that Lloyd has come through our system and whilst it's always sad to see an Academy graduate leave the football club, this is an offer we felt we couldn't refuse"

 

 

[Smiley Culture]

Does it? I think it’s probably quite cheap, when you consider he’s English, young and a youth international.