FC Bayern München 5-0 Borussia Dortmund - Saturday 6th April, 2019

[Cicero]

Devil Dick Boswell

[Harry]

Damn. Big loss in the context of the league battle. Unfortunate.

[Rick]

2 hours ago, Tommy said:

Fan based on what? I chose them as a teenager because they were successful. I now support my home team, the team from the city I was born in, the team I first supported as kid. I still have the old shirts. I know you can all laugh, or react to it from Australia, from someone with a gypsy last name, who claims his father was German, or a Liverpool supported from West Workshire. I regret that I chose BVB as my team one day, I truly do. I was a confused kid. My parents didn't like football. So at first I supported Fortuna Düsseldorf. Then all of the other kids around my supported Borussia Dortmund, and I thought that's the way to go. So I stuck with it, until I became deluded with football altogether. Then 10 years or so later Fredi Bobic who I really liked at the time played for Dortmund, so I kind of followed them, and it stuck with me. But I have never had a real relation to the city of Dortmund. I know maybe 2-3 streets there, that's it. I was born, and raised in Düsseldorf. I can show you every nook and cranny here, I can give you a lovely tour if you want to. And that is, as I have learned, identification. And in modern football, that is something that has been lost. Every Premier League club is owned by some American, Russian, or whatever Billionaire. Even in Germany we got Red Bull, Hoffenheim etc. now, which makes it so much more important to support the teams that are YOU, your roots, something you can identify with, your home. It feels good. I hope you learn to appreciate that feeling some day too. 

All that...cool. You do whatever you like mate. However, to have that attitude towards a team that meant so much to you for so long comes across as massively phoney.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

21 minutes ago, Rick said:

All that...cool. You do whatever you like mate. However, to have that attitude towards a team that meant so much to you for so long comes across as massively phoney.

 

He gave me shit about being a fake/ plastic fan (of a club with literally 0 success in the time I've been on these forums) all the time when he was a Dortmund fan. Laughed and celebrated Dortmunds 5-0 hammerings of Bremen. He waxed lyrical about the special connection he had with the team, and the special connection the players had with the coach and city. He wasn't a fan the way say Dickie was. He was on a horse so high if it pissed you'd think it was raining. He can give whatever excuse he fucking wants. When the league titles disappeared, so did he.

 

I'm still a Bremen fan, and twice the supporter you'll ever be little tom tom. Because I will be a life long fan of a team. Something you can't achieve.

[Lucas]

I don't like to be lazy and label a team that loses a good position as 'bottlers', but I think it's pretty fair to give them that tag. 

They looked poor against Spurs a few weeks ago to the point I really had to wonder what they were doing top of the table.

Having seen how pathetic Bayern were against Liverpool mind, I kinda understood. 

But now, getting hammered by arguably the worst Bayern side in recent history and seeing them hand the advantage back, that is a bottle job.

[Guest]

I did say it... German football is not in a good state.

[SchalkeUK]

Come on gentlemen!  This area of 365 has always been the one where respect dominates and that has been borne out by the fact that I can cry about what 04 is doing at present and enjoy the success of Fortuna down the road.  What is happening to BVB at present is something that happens to every team at some time or other - Man U are just coming out of it, Liverpool under Kloppy are like BVB were under Kloppy and the Munchkins revel in their wealth and like to make us all a little jealous that we don't have that sort of financial clout to raid other teams. I say gentlemen because nudge has never wavered in her support of her little green men and is enjoying their performances this season.  When Mesut and Diego were together they were the first team I looked for after the 04 result and I accept that although she never will love the taste of Veltins, she has always been kind when she could have more than just smiled at our pathetic efforts.  When we sat in Tommy's strange bar in Dusseldorf it was not easy to understand why he was  not supporting Fortuna at that time  but his latest post fills that gap!  BVB are our nearest (sorry Bochum) main rivals but having been there often - got to know some of the players over the years and even watched them as kids trying to kick the hell out of the Gelsenkirchen boys has been fun.  Even Benny H pulling off  Marco R's pants when he insisted on trying to beat him and go past for the fourth time in a junior match still bring back a smile as it was more Rugby League than soccer and he is still one of the BVB men I enjoy watching.  I have been one of the 'Knappen' since 1949 and will stay so until whenever, but I find it hard to even think of the word 'hate' when I look at other teams.  I can understand passion and support but find it hard to relate to the Liverpool/Manchester or Rangers/Celtic problems.  It's a game, It's fun and to some it's a job, a livelihood and what they live for.  I feel very strongly about the rubbish going on in the UK at the moment threatening our future as Europeans rather than turning us into little islanders again and relate the Johnson/Gove lies and corruption to that of Herr Hitler in the 30's - he persuaded as many of his followers to do what the brexiteers did three years ago and they got it wrong but it still leaves me respecting the sincere opposition when they explain their reasons and will respect their position - happily we have all moved on, but arguments in politics and sport can sometimes spill over and ruin good friendships and relationships as it is hard sometimes to forget what has been said in heated debate.

Sorry about the 'rant', but I sincerely enjoy reading what you lot post, but at times the 'respect' seems to diminish - I am sure in most, if not all, cases that it not so, but as the song says 'Everybody hurts - sometimes'

PS  why the above?  I was very lucky to meet up with a super young guy from Dusseldorf a few years ago and although he is quite capable of defending himself, I will never sit by and watch others belittle him!

[Devil-Dick Willie]

7 hours ago, SchalkeUK said:

 

PS  why the above?  I was very lucky to meet up with a super young guy from Dusseldorf a few years ago and although he is quite capable of defending himself, I will never sit by and watch others belittle him!

 

He used that ammo to try to belittle me for ages. Now he's shown his true colours of course me of all people is going to fire back. Nothing personal though. Once I get over the hilarity of it all I'm sure i'll just fire the odd shot here and there. Forever.

[Tommy]

On 07/04/2019 at 03:32, Rick said:

All that...cool. You do whatever you like mate. However, to have that attitude towards a team that meant so much to you for so long comes across as massively phoney.

I was a phoney, yes. How much did that team really mean to me though? I did things I thought a fan needs to do. The last 4-5 years I didn't really feel joy when they won, I didn't feel sad when they lost. Maturing and growing up, realizing what is important in life, and surely football is not VERY important, but a bit important, and my hometown, my roots, are important to me. So yea, long story short, I'm sorry if I offended anyone in that previous post. I felt attacked, and I know it looks strange to be "switching sides" so to say, but I am home now. I was home, I strayed away a bit, trying to find my "identity", got lost along the way, and now I am back home where I belong. And it feels good and true, even if we get relegated again next season or whatever. I'm not in it anymore for only the glory  If Dortmund win the title this season, I'm happy that Bayern didn't win it, but nothing more. 

 

[Tommy]

@Devil-Dick Willie Where did I call you a plastic fan? I always had the utmost respect towards Bremen. In fact they are the team along with Freiburg I respect the most. Maybe it was a wind up attempt, or some silly "banter", but I surely didn't call you plastic. I reserve that term for other things. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

11 minutes ago, Tommy said:

@Devil-Dick Willie Where did I call you a plastic fan? I always had the utmost respect towards Bremen. In fact they are the team along with Freiburg I respect the most. Maybe it was a wind up attempt, or some silly "banter", but I surely didn't call you plastic. I reserve that term for other things. 

Like Tupperware?

You have never called Bremen plastic. But you certainly did label me as. 

[Tommy]

5 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Like Tupperware?

You have never called Bremen plastic. But you certainly did label me as. 

Like Leipzig for example. 

 

Well, the thing is, I know you're from Australia and you probably can't follow the broadcasts of the Bundesliga as well as we do, so I don't know why I insulted you, or belittled you because of it. I respect you as a Werder Fan, and I know you'll stick with them. I never meant to offend you. I did a lot of lashing out and belittling in the past because of how unhappy or insecure I was with myself. Don't take it too seriously. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

I got up at 2 am to watch us 1-1 draw with Gladbach on the weekend. I do this most matches every year, and we generally lose most matches every year. 

Then you come on here and see most of the English lot can't be arsed to go to a fucking game, but they claim to be better than you. This is why I dish it out so much. 

[Tommy]

18 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I got up at 2 am to watch us 1-1 draw with Gladbach on the weekend. I do this most matches every year, and we generally lose most matches every year. 

Then you come on here and see most of the English lot can't be arsed to go to a fucking game, but they claim to be better than you. This is why I dish it out so much. 

I guess it comes down to, stop comparing yourself to others. Do what you do, as honest as possible and be fine with it. Probably some of your posts sounded a bit wise-assish so that I thought, "what does this guy who lives on the other side of the planet think?", but I never really meant them as badly as they might have sounded. 

It's funny how I found my way back to Fortuna. My best mate is a BVB Fan, and he has some mates who are Fortuna Fans, so for a fun Saturday night, we decided we all go to a Fortuna match together. We stood among the Ultras, singing Fortuna Düsseldorf songs, "Die Fortuna, ist mein Verein, mein Herz das schlägt für Düsseldorf am Rhein", among other things... and I realized "whoa... that is exactly how I feel". My heart beats for Düsseldorf at the Rhine as well, so why not for the club? So throughout the whole match I sang every Fortuna Düsseldorf chant at the top of my lung. Lost my voice the next day, but still kept the BVB-Fan thing up for a few more weeks. My dad was a Fortuna armchair Fan back then, so I asked him if he wants to go to a Fortuna match some day, and he said sure, why not? So that was when we were facing relegation in the 2. Bundesliga. Friedhelm Funkel just took over, which is another funny connection, because my uncle played with him at VfR Neuss. And it was such a more honest and pure experience than I ever had at Dortmund matches. At Westfalenstadion, I just wondered how I'll make it to the train station through those streets I don't even know. Here, I can even walk home if push comes to shove. There's such so much more connection. I just feel sorry that I missed those times when Fortuna was relegated to the 4th or 5th division because I was following some title winning team that I had honestly not even a real connection to, and I tried to cover it up with "WELL DORTMUND IS NOT THAT FAR AWAY". I could have made so much more honest, true and lasting memories, probably. Oh well, no regrets, right? Just sad that I ditched Fortuna once was something more successful and missed some real vital moments, but ey, I'm there in the future. Be nice, as a wise man keeps saying! 

[Eco]

1 hour ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I got up at 2 am to watch us 1-1 draw with Gladbach on the weekend. I do this most matches every year, and we generally lose most matches every year. 

Then you come on here and see most of the English lot can't be arsed to go to a fucking game, but they claim to be better than you. This is why I dish it out so much. 

I'm in the same boat man. Different time zones, but I have to go out of my way to watch European football, and so happily. Wife luckily puts up with it, so I'm golden. Having followed Munster and Braunschweig, it's impossible to watch a match so I'm stuck with listening to German broadcast of the matches. 

I don't speak German. 

[Stan]

8 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Then you come on here and see most of the English lot can't be arsed to go to a fucking game, but they claim to be better than you

Name names  

I'm intrigued.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

58 minutes ago, Stan said:

Name names  

I'm intrigued.

I don't need to. Think of anyone in England who gives anyone grief about the club they support - ever. Then if they don't at least semi regularly mention they have gone to a game then they're a hypocrite cunt. I don't expect everyone to be a season ticket holder. Far from it. But I do expect a passionate fan who lives on the same tiny fucking island as their team to occasionally drop in and watch the football. Or even watch their teams youth games or some such at least. I'd kill a man to have Bremen come to Sydney for friendlies. And after I finish uni I am planning on going to Germany just to see Bremen play. I hate the A league and even I drop in to watch a few games a season. Any game  that gets played here in Wollongong and the odd one in Western Sydney or Sydney. 

 

[SchalkeUK]

There is one problem you seem to have missed in all this 'banter'.  I fly from Leeds to Dusseldorf - Stay with friends in Essen or Herne and go to watch 04 in a comfortable (sort of) seat with a great view and a cool glass of Veltins - and then fly home and all in all I have enough left for a night out - that same cost would get me a cheap view in Old Trafford or Anfield with no transport and not enough for a coke!  The ordinary guy just can't afford to be at every game whereas for locals in Germany it is very affordable - and the ticket for the game normally includes free transport to the ground and home.  That may not be evident to you guys far away, but my young 12 year old friend who watched the City/Spurs game with his dad on my TV (BT subs which they don't have ) is a Cityzen and plays every Sunday but seen his idols maybe once a season - just can't afford it!  A similar young guy in Herne goes for 17euros to every 04 game and young Logan here finds it unbelieveable!  They will be back next Wednesday for the return game after I return home from a weekend with my Nephew in Nurnberg which will be cheaper than watching Championship Leeds take on Sheffield about 7 miles away!  Sooner or later the UK will learn that they are charging fans out of the game whilst getting into a BL match is sometimes impossible - and that at most grounds every week. I may be old, but travelling to games and the time with like-minde4d idiots keeps me going.  Only being able to afford to watch your club on TV is the saddest thing for any real footy fan!

[SchalkeUK]

Flight goes this afternoon to Frankfurt and in 3 months time I hope to be in Gelsenkirchen to celebrate my 70th Anniversary of my first 04 game in '49 - that's a long time DDW - hope you get to that as a WB man and then you really will be able to cheer tommy up!

PS:  If you ever come across my old friend Wally Lewis give  him and bro Scott give 'em my best wishes.  I signed the pair of them whilst managing Wakefield in the early 80's - great guys then - and still now!

[Viva la FCB+]

[Tommy]

[RandoEFC+]

I don't get what's wrong with people sometimes. People have all sorts of reasons not to attend games, geographical reasons, economic reasons for most people. Both of those have certainly applied to me when it comes to Everton. Not everyone can afford to pay the money (and time) to get a plane to the city their team is located, buy tickets for themselves (and kids?) and a plane back on a regular basis. I don't get why people who do go to the game act like it's some sort of sacrifice that they have to go through in order to be perceived as real supporters or be allowed an opinion. Most people who don't go to the game would swap positions with you in a heartbeat. I'm not having that because you happen to live close enough to your football team and don't work weekends or have young kids to look after so you can't afford to go, that makes you any less of a 'real fan'.

Two things that are a different matter:

- Bandwagoners who have never even lived in the same country as the team they claim to support and only watch 4 games a season on television, can't name the starting line-up, these aren't what I'd consider fans, these are people who see a football club as some sort of brand or something, I don't get it, it's weird, but it's an entirely different conversation than the one about people who are arsed enough to come on a football forum to discuss their team or spend their Saturday afternoons watching dodgy streams rather than getting out and doing something else.

- overseas fans actually have nothing to do with the original conversation about changing the team you support halfway through your life. This is another thing I don't understand. I support Everton and couldn't imagine suddenly deciding that Wigan are closer to where I live and where my mates are from so actually I should have supported them all along, can't imagine it at all. However, just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I'll be slating anyone who chooses to do so. 

[SchalkeUK]

Some do things differently to others but I never question why or subject their loyalty/passion to scrutiny - a case of the folk in glass houses..  On the other hand you could spend time flying backwards and forwards and being very very sad watching the sort of garbage from highly paid so-called professionals like last night.  Greatest respect for H Stevens, but again 90 minutes of offside walking (possibly should be spelt with an 'n' ) about and inability to even pass the ball accurately from the Austrian and corners taken by another so-called senior player who can't seem to get it past the first defender - I could go on, but the weather back home is nice so I will sit and watch my little TV and hope for better from Bremen then Barca and then BVB - at least it could not even remotely be any worse that 15 hours ago!  Like most of you I am just the average sucker for punishment

[Eco]

10 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

I don't get what's wrong with people sometimes. People have all sorts of reasons not to attend games, geographical reasons, economic reasons for most people. Both of those have certainly applied to me when it comes to Everton. Not everyone can afford to pay the money (and time) to get a plane to the city their team is located, buy tickets for themselves (and kids?) and a plane back on a regular basis. I don't get why people who do go to the game act like it's some sort of sacrifice that they have to go through in order to be perceived as real supporters or be allowed an opinion. Most people who don't go to the game would swap positions with you in a heartbeat. I'm not having that because you happen to live close enough to your football team and don't work weekends or have young kids to look after so you can't afford to go, that makes you any less of a 'real fan'.

 Two things that are a different matter:

- Bandwagoners who have never even lived in the same country as the team they claim to support and only watch 4 games a season on television, can't name the starting line-up, these aren't what I'd consider fans, these are people who see a football club as some sort of brand or something, I don't get it, it's weird, but it's an entirely different conversation than the one about people who are arsed enough to come on a football forum to discuss their team or spend their Saturday afternoons watching dodgy streams rather than getting out and doing something else.

 - overseas fans actually have nothing to do with the original conversation about changing the team you support halfway through your life. This is another thing I don't understand. I support Everton and couldn't imagine suddenly deciding that Wigan are closer to where I live and where my mates are from so actually I should have supported them all along, can't imagine it at all. However, just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I'll be slating anyone who chooses to do so. 

So - I'll bite on this one since I'm an overseas fan, that has supported more than one team. 

My first experience with proper football was in England, and i was watching Arsenal and Manchester United in a hotel room with my Dad. I was about 14 or so and was instantly amazed by Thierry Henry. So much so, I begged my Dad to buy me a jersey of his (which he did and I still have), and I remember Arsenal won the cup final, beating Man U in PKs. I was all Arsenal, or so I thought.

The following year, we were backpacking in Europe and were in Milan as the same time as the AC vs Inter match. My dad bought tickets randomly, and we sat on the 'blue' side of the stadium. It was my first European football game, and I was in love. It was even made better when Adriano scored near the end of the match to beat AC Milan. Here is the photo I have from that match (I had found a scudetto and attached it, not really knowing what it meant at the time). I had my European team. 

A couple of years later, I was backpacking around Europe, and spent some time in Portsmouth. Went to a few matches, drank with the fans, and truly loved the culture that was much more close knit that any one of Arsenal's I'd witnessed as it's such a smaller city than London. Since then, which has been 7-8 years, I have followed Pompey close in England. 

Since then, I have lived in Germany, Russia, and China. In Russia, I went to over 20 matches of my 'local' team, Shinnik. In China, there was no 'local' team so I didn't go to any matches during those 2 years of my life, and in Germany, I went to a few of my 'local' teams matches, Kaiserslautern, but never really got into it as much as I had with Inter.

Fast forward to couple of years ago, and I completely gave up on Inter. Not because of their results, or that they were taken over my a Chinese group, but because of blatant racism, and dirty tricks drove me away. The biggest team in the country got caught cheating for years, and while they got the hammer, I just couldn't think other teams were clean. I gave up them on all of Serie A, and Inter Milan. I still follow Portsmouth, but it's hard with them being in League One. I have spent the better part of 2 year 'finding' my German team, as their matches are televised here, I love the country of German, the language, and so much more. It's been a struggle as I still haven't found that connection to a German team like I once had for Inter, so I watch a couple of teams, Frankfurt and Stuttgart, and then I keep up with Munster and Braunschweig in 3. Liga. I'm still trying to just commit to a team, but it's harder as I haven't been to Germany in a few years. 

Now, I'm lucky because 2.5 years ago we got a local team here in Atlanta. Which I have Season tickets to, but don't go to anymore since we have a young kid and honestly, with the amount of flags in our section, you tend to miss most of the match. It's great, and I love it, but it's not the same as football over there in Europe. 

 I love the Bundesliga and wish I had a die hard team that I had grown and loved for years and years, but that's just not the case. I'm just watching and enjoying, but want a team to support, and have decided that by the beginning of next year, I'll have a team that i'm committed to.