The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Mel81x+]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

After it was disputed as false, senior US officials seemed to confirm it as true. But now Egypt and Israel have made statements both denying it. So maybe the US officials are just getting shit info. They were pretty spot on about Russia though while Russia was denying preparing for an invasion of Ukraine.

It seems like the war declaration also prevents any senior Israeli government positions from being vacated, including a Prime Minister under current criminal investigation who's seen his popularity plummet after the biggest loss of civilian life in Israel in decades - that only has his job currently because of a fragile coalition that just a few MPs could trigger a special election.

If I were conspiratorial, I'd think this is just a vile power grab, where loss of life on both sides is just being used for shitty political purposes.

On the other hand, whoever came up with the saying of things often being attributed to malice when it's really just incompetence has proven themselves to be right a lot of times in the history of humanity. And I don't want to believe that anyone's power hungry enough to allow something that horrible to ever happen just for politics. And the security failure is probably just due to a lot of things that possibly should have been red flags (like the reports that Israeli intelligence had noticed that Hamas's electronic communications had suddenly become way more sparse) about what was going on in Gaza just got ignored.

Summed up what I wanted to say about the entire information passing. It's so odd that it's come out and then the discourse around it and back and forthing.

What's also odd is how so many platforms have been dragged into this mess now for false news and only one has been taken to court. The fact that CNN hasn't seen any real legal ramifications for what they did speaks volumes to how the media is playing this game for whatever side of the fence they want to sit on. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

Summed up what I wanted to say about the entire information passing. It's so odd that it's come out and then the discourse around it and back and forthing.

What's also odd is how so many platforms have been dragged into this mess now for false news and only one has been taken to court. The fact that CNN hasn't seen any real legal ramifications for what they did speaks volumes to how the media is playing this game for whatever side of the fence they want to sit on. 

The fact people are seemingly being pressured into taking some wild takes because they want to whittle down a really complex issue into "Israel bad" or "Palestine bad" is sort of an example of how so many media platforms, both social media and "traditional" media have made people so unbelievably stupid.

[Stan]

What a vile man. 

 

 

[Machado]

Here is a longer version. The guy thinks Israel have the right to do their own Dresden in Gaza and its no one's business if they do. Only the death toll won't be 25k, it will be much higher. There's two million people there in a small area and half are under 18.

[Azeem]

Israel won't do a ground invasion. Too embarrassed to lose further soldiers at the hands of a rag tag militia. Choke Gaza to death and bomb rest of them.

[6666]

7 hours ago, Machado said:

Here is a longer version. The guy thinks Israel have the right to do their own Dresden in Gaza and its no one's business if they do. Only the death toll won't be 25k, it will be much higher. There's two million people there in a small area and half are under 18.

None of this is necessarily surprising. The Israeli government have had this type of mentality for a long, long time. Which is everything that Hamas needed to gain power in Palestine.

Still crazy how people, even those that don't have to experience the conflict, can say killing innocent people for revenge isn't right but then say that wiping out everyone on the other side is not only okay but something that should be done. Hamas, the Israeli government, and these people have the same mindset.

[Stan]

Israel have ordered 1m+ Palestinians to move south from the north of Gaza within 24hrs.

Even though it's virtually impossible to do so due to the obliteration they've enacted in the past week. 

Sounds like it's going to go absolutely mental in the next few days. 

[Mel81x+]

24 minutes ago, Stan said:

Israel have ordered 1m+ Palestinians to move south from the north of Gaza within 24hrs.

Even though it's virtually impossible to do so due to the obliteration they've enacted in the past week. 

Sounds like it's going to go absolutely mental in the next few days. 

With these kinds of demands I can't see this going away till around early December. This isn't going to sit well with the Palestinians and they'll retaliate for sure. Leaving that area allows Israeli occupation and they just wont allow it.

[Michael]

11 hours ago, Stan said:

What a vile man. 

 

 

Absolute disgrace and to think that he was their Prime Minister. The question that was asked, was a legitimate question and he had the cheek to turn around and tell the Sky News presenter to feel ashamed of himself for asking such questions. It's also quite clear to me, that he views all people in Gaza as his enemy. Or at least, if he just see's HAMAS as his enemy, he evidently does not give a damn about the innocent civilians in Gaza. 

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Michael said:

Absolute disgrace and to think that he was their Prime Minister. The question that was asked, was a legitimate question and he had the cheek to turn around and tell the Sky News presenter to feel ashamed of himself for asking such questions. It's also quite clear to me, that he views all people in Gaza as his enemy. Or at least, if he just see's HAMAS as his enemy, he evidently does not give a damn about the innocent civilians in Gaza. 

Yeah he's quite adamant Palestine = Hamas, and doesn't even take into account innocent people there. Brainwashed. 

[OrangeKhrush]

it is a purely military strategy, goals etc and not a political video.  Cappy does very good videos on this topic.

 

[OrangeKhrush]

19 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

More than half of Gaza’s population is children and Hamas have all the guns, what exactly do you expect them to do?

per Reuters about or less than a third of Palastinians are against Hamas and can't recall the name but the west bank extremists.

it is a difficult situation but in 2005 Israel did come to the aid of Palastinians when Hamas took over.   there would likely be loses but if Hamas gun down there own it's not likely that Israel will stand  idle as anyone who is an enemy to Hamas is an ally.

[OrangeKhrush]

https://www.politico.eu/article/henry-kissinger-germany-let-in-way-too-many-foreigners/

Henry Kissinger on the failure of multicultural diversity and it's impacts on national identity.  His response to the carnival atmosphere in the streets of Berlin, Sydney, Sheffield, London, Vienna to the murder of "Jews".

we have also seen similar scenes of jubilation in the US with BLM throwing their lot in with Hamas.

[nudge]

Ah yes, Henry Kissinger, the paragon of moral virtue lol. Do we have any more war criminals to share their thoughts about the current situation?

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

https://www.politico.eu/article/henry-kissinger-germany-let-in-way-too-many-foreigners/

Henry Kissinger on the failure of multicultural diversity and it's impacts on national identity.  His response to the carnival atmosphere in the streets of Berlin, Sydney, Sheffield, London, Vienna to the murder of "Jews".

we have also seen similar scenes of jubilation in the US with BLM throwing their lot in with Hamas.

So he was a fan of Germany back when they tried to remove multiculturalism from within their territory? Cos I’m pretty sure that’s why his family fled Germany.

[Azeem]

Kissinger doesn't want the world to go on without him. He'll ensure a world war before he finally dies. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 hours ago, Michael said:

Absolute disgrace and to think that he was their Prime Minister. The question that was asked, was a legitimate question and he had the cheek to turn around and tell the Sky News presenter to feel ashamed of himself for asking such questions. It's also quite clear to me, that he views all people in Gaza as his enemy. Or at least, if he just see's HAMAS as his enemy, he evidently does not give a damn about the innocent civilians in Gaza. 

This is what happens when a conflict is allowed to fester. Extremists on both sides of this conflict view the other side as less than human. The Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict, which has also been festering for decades, but not as long, has a similar trend of people on both sides talking about the other as though they're animals to be slaughtered.

Even with Russia and Ukraine, which has been going on since Russia's invasion of Crimea... we see similar things we hear from the fanatics of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Russia's had officials make statements saying there's no such thing as a Ukrainian nationality - that mirrors the claim of Golda Meir, former Israeli prime minister who claimed "there's no such thing as Palestinians." It's simply a denial of Ukrainian/Palestinian identity - meant to legitimise treating illegal attacks. Ukraine's made official statements where they refer to Russians as "Orcs" - that's similar to the dehumanisation of Jews by Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, the PA, etc. Refer to them as monsters or animals to slaughter and that justifies not thinking about them as human.

Naftali Bennet is an extremist. His rhetoric of not treating Palestinians as though they are human is nothing new. Radicalism in Israeli politics is unfortunately quite common, look at Netanyahu's rise to power and it's genuinely sickening what he was allowed to get away with. That extremism has such a deep root in Israeli democracy is a stain on Israel and brings question to the morality of the Israeli electorate. By the same token, while Hamas has refused to hold elections since taking power... they obviously do enjoy support in Gaza and the wider Palestinian/pro-Palestinian community. Otherwise children being murdered wouldn't have been so widely celebrated.

War and conflict are breeding grounds for extremism. Extreme situations cause extreme reactions from people. People that experience more stability in their day to day lives are less likely to turn to extremists to solve their problems - because their problems will be less extreme.

Short of sending in UN peacekeepers, which I don't think is going to happen... I don't think this issue is ever really going away. Telling half of Gaza to leave northern Gaza, when they've got nowhere to really go, in 24 hours is telling a lot of people to do the impossible. If urban combat comes next, it's going to be chaotic and horrifying for people in Gaza. If a massive bombing campaign comes next, thousands of people are going to get caught in the collateral damage. I can't see how it will end the cycle of hatred, the hate will continue even if the Palestinian population drops massively. That hatred is going to lead to more extremism.

And imo the UN should probably have gotten involved long ago when the first illegal settlements started. So few countries respect international law because for some countries there's just no consequence. If we want to have a just and more humane society that needs to change.

[Azeem]

Historians debate if and how much the Crusaders had an effect on the black death happening. They agree on that much that indirectly they opened the routes which brought new diseases (worsened by the bloodshed in Levant) which increased transmissions for the early plagues that amalgamated later. 

Once again blood of 2.5 million people will be shed in Levant. Karma/divine retribution will strike again with something like the black death. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Fuck me the footage coming out of Gaza is horrific.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

57 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Fuck me the footage coming out of Gaza is horrific.

You're fucking right it is, as it was always going to be. 

[Azeem]

Israel will cut off the internet there we won't be seeing any footages of the worst to come. 

[Azeem]

Biden wants de-escalation because the Suadi-Israel normalisation deal was a big part of his reelection but Nethanyahu wants more for the exact opposite reason. He has been humiliated that under his tenure Israel got hammered. He is in a hysterical/feral mode to show he is still tough to get elected again. 

[OrangeKhrush]

4 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

Biden wants de-escalation because the Suadi-Israel normalisation deal was a big part of his reelection but Nethanyahu wants more for the exact opposite reason. He has been humiliated that under his tenure Israel got hammered. He is in a hysterical/feral mode to show he is still tough to get elected again. 

the saudi-israeli deal is beneficial to the US deescalation, it does serve other interests to like the India, middle East, Europe trade line proposal.   

The only commonality here is that Iran is an enemy to Israel, Saudi Arabia and the US.   Saudi is demanding similar supply of weapons systems to Israel to ensure they posses a technological edge, the stumbling point is that Israel doesn't want anyone in the region having F35s.

on  whole the Saudi Israel deal would be a massive step but the Islamic brotherhood will not stand for it.

[OrangeKhrush]

19 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

So he was a fan of Germany back when they tried to remove multiculturalism from within their territory? Cos I’m pretty sure that’s why his family fled Germany.

Henry Kissinger is Jewish born and fled Nazi Germany in 1938.  He never was involved in what Germany did, however is very involved in America turning the blind eye to war crimes 

[OrangeKhrush]

Caspian report with another good vlog on the history, the future, the players, the possibility of peace and possible escalations.