The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[OrangeKhrush]

14 minutes ago, 6666 said:

You're right, there's only a genocide going on. No need to be dramatic and be angry at those committing it. Silly me.

Israeli supporters really do lack any type of humanity. Gets proven again and again whenever you hear one of their supporters speak. They also generally tend to be bigoted people so it's unfortunately not even surprising.

is there an actual genocide going on or are we just using emotive language to create it.   

tensions between Arabs and Jews in the region have been ongoing since 1870 this conflict is deeply entrenched in cultural disputes.  

The current escalation is due to violent acts of terror or heroic resistance however it has resulted in a full scale war.  Israel has stuck by its view it is targeting targets of opportunity and the targets are weapons caches, logistic hubs and to date it's accurate.  in such scenario protection under article 17 falls away.

Gil Schuster has a blog where he goes around asking Palastinians and Israelis hard questions, in one he asked Palastinians if Iran had nukes whether they should nuke Tel Aviv, while the majority said yes there were a few that applied logic and said that Israel actually does more for them than HAMAS, she tried to cover herself as such things can get a person killed under the PA.

Israel have been a bit messy but in no way was this unprovoked nor was it necessary.  21 peace deals Palasþine has walked away from, at some point War was a likely end game.

I have seen the same left moral grandstanding, if russià hits civilian buildings it's a war crime but when Ukraine do it, it's silence.  war has no moral equivilance, the Allies dropped more bombs on German cities than Germany did, who claims the moral high ground?  As Fallout would say, war never changes it's ugly but grandstanding is not helping.

[Tommy]

12 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Fixed

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

More IASIP

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, 6666 said:

On a significant scale, it doesn't work as people won't judge politics based on sports. That's simple and proven.

Suggesting that there can still be a few examples of it working with dumb people doesn't undermine that.

It'd be like me suggesting that you have to believe that sports washing works with every single person for you do have the opinion that sports washing works. It'd be a moronic comeback.

It’s simple and proven said the man offering no proof. If it didn’t work, it wouldn’t work. If it works some of the time… it does work.

Most people are stupid, if you don’t think so… pay more attention to what’s going on in the world.

[MUFC]

 

[MUFC]

Are there white balls coming down your screen?

[nudge+]

1 minute ago, MUFC said:

Are there white balls coming down your screen?

Would you prefer black balls?

[Goku de la Boca]

1 hour ago, MUFC said:

Are there white balls coming down your screen?

Weird thing to post about in this specific thread 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, nudge said:

Would you prefer black balls?

Blue

[6666]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It’s simple and proven said the man offering no proof. If it didn’t work, it wouldn’t work. If it works some of the time… it does work.

Most people are stupid, if you don’t think so… pay more attention to what’s going on in the world.

Most people are stupid but most people don't care about international politics to begin with. "Sports washing" means nothing to them. And to the people that care about international politics, they won't be affected by sports taking place in a country. And whether they're shaped by moronic logic or not, they'll have strong opinions which won't be swayed by sports. And as I've mentioned many times before, the fact that the term only exists for non-western countries exposes a level of xenophobia behind its use.

[Dr. Gonzo]

32 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Most people are stupid but most people don't care about international politics to begin with. 

That's exactly why it does work. Those people will associate Saudi Arabia with football, golf, WWE, F1, etc... because that's when they'll hear of Saudi Arabia. Just because you've said something many times before, doesn't mean you're right. Things like the Olympics don't exist in the modern day just for fun - it's all political. The US, China, and Russia aren't just trying to collect gold medals because they just love athletics. Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the US aren't trying to host world cups because they're football mad countries.

[Beelzebub]

U.S making similar calls but it is likely

a) Just rhetoric

b) Not workable. Most of these 'settlers' are dual nationals. They hold nationalities of US, Belgium etc they don't need a visa.

[MUFC]

7 hours ago, nudge said:

Would you prefer black balls?

Balls.

[Dr. Gonzo]

35 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

U.S making similar calls but it is likely

a) Just rhetoric

b) Not workable. Most of these 'settlers' are dual nationals. They hold nationalities of US, Belgium etc they don't need a visa.

For the US it's pointless anyways because Israelis don't need a visa to enter the US unless they want to work in the US (unless they're also US citizens, which I think 15% of Israeli settlers are).

The policy of continual settlements in Palestinian territory in Israel is a shambles. It's against international law and they almost always announce more settlements when a US or western leader arrives in Israel - which makes it appear as though these settlements are approved and endorsed by the west.

[Spike]

Of course sports washing is real, how naive do you have to be to rubbish the concept of positive association and reinforcement? It's one of the most basic mind tricks.

[MUFC]

 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, MUFC said:

 

They have been great at union busting. What they do is they put massive pressure on the individual store managers to fuck with employees that are trying to unionise. You need 40 hours? Here is 30. Also you will close the cafe at 10pm on Saturday but Sunday you need to be in at 4am. One minute late? That’s grounds for termination.

[Redcanuck]

https://amp.dw.com/en/german-state-citizenship-applicants-must-support-israel/a-67651248

 

Surprised that is legal.    So individual States issue citizenship in Germany? 

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, Redcanuck said:

https://amp.dw.com/en/german-state-citizenship-applicants-must-support-israel/a-67651248

 

Surprised that is legal.    So individual States issue citizenship in Germany? 

No, has to do with legal situation: To become a German citizen you have to agree with the values of the Federal Republic of Germany. Since accepting a significant resposnsibility towards Israel resulting from Holocaust is a meaningful part of said values you can't become German citizen without affirming Israel's right to exist. That's the reasoning behind this Land's argumentation. Also the citizenship is issued by the federal republic.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Rucksackfranzose

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 hours ago, MUFC said:

 

Tbh I don't think this has as much to do with the boycotts - the industry at large is having a slower than average holiday season.

[6666]

22 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's exactly why it does work. Those people will associate Saudi Arabia with football, golf, WWE, F1, etc... because that's when they'll hear of Saudi Arabia. Just because you've said something many times before, doesn't mean you're right. Things like the Olympics don't exist in the modern day just for fun - it's all political. The US, China, and Russia aren't just trying to collect gold medals because they just love athletics. Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the US aren't trying to host world cups because they're football mad countries.

I like that you're now adding the US to the list. Something you didn't used to do before and something that no one in sports media that uses the term "sports washing" does, and that's one of the reasons why people shouldn't take people that use it seriously. Clear and obvious double standards.

It also doesn't work as far as getting people to be okay with politics they otherwise would've disagreed with so it's pointless to cry about it. But if people are going to do it then hopefully they're at least consistent.

One way "sports washing" works is actually in a positive way... Progress in countries is proven to happen when a country's trying to impress and prove themselves capable. Qatar & Saudi Arabia are good examples of that. Hooray for sports washing I guess.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Progress in countries is proven to happen when a country's trying to impress and prove themselves capable.

Honestly? What a fucking stupid thing to say. What progress has happened in Qatar? Pretty sure rights for the migrant workers (the people who are virtually slaves) didn't change at all. They're still an absolute monarchy that supports suppression of human rights in Iran. They're still a state sponsor of terrorism.

The thing is now if mention Qatar to people, for a lot of people their mind goes to "omg that was the best world cup ever" or "I like their F1 track" - does it work for everyone? No, and I don't think anyone claimed it would work for everyone. Just because the term "sports washing" is fairly new, doesn't mean it's a new concept. 

Did China and Russia host the Olympics just for fun? Did China use their opening ceremony to try to highlight their military might to demonstrate their love of athletics? No. They hosted the Olympics for the same reason everyone hosts the Olympics or why everyone who hosts the World Cup wants to host it: partially as propaganda & partially to boost tourism. You don't need to use the words "sports washing" or have the media tell you what countries you're meant to like and dislike for the concept to be fundamentally the same. FFS the Nazis famously used the Olympics as an international propaganda event - what makes you think authoritarian governments would suddenly stop seeing it as a fantastic propaganda opportunity.

I would say all Saudi Arabia or Qatar have to do is avoid starting any wars to see the good work of their sports washing go to waste... but I think Azerbaijan's proven that even that doesn't matter.

[6666]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Honestly? What a fucking stupid thing to say. What progress has happened in Qatar? Pretty sure rights for the migrant workers (the people who are virtually slaves) didn't change at all. They're still an absolute monarchy that supports suppression of human rights in Iran. They're still a state sponsor of terrorism.

The thing is now if mention Qatar to people, for a lot of people their mind goes to "omg that was the best world cup ever" or "I like their F1 track" - does it work for everyone? No, and I don't think anyone claimed it would work for everyone. Just because the term "sports washing" is fairly new, doesn't mean it's a new concept. 

Did China and Russia host the Olympics just for fun? Did China use their opening ceremony to try to highlight their military might to demonstrate their love of athletics? No. They hosted the Olympics for the same reason everyone hosts the Olympics or why everyone who hosts the World Cup wants to host it: partially as propaganda & partially to boost tourism. You don't need to use the words "sports washing" or have the media tell you what countries you're meant to like and dislike for the concept to be fundamentally the same. FFS the Nazis famously used the Olympics as an international propaganda event - what makes you think authoritarian governments would suddenly stop seeing it as a fantastic propaganda opportunity.

I would say all Saudi Arabia or Qatar have to do is avoid starting any wars to see the good work of their sports washing go to waste... but I think Azerbaijan's proven that even that doesn't matter.

Qatar has made changes to workers rights by removing the kafala system and the fact they were wanted an influx of foreigners from different countries is also a step in the right direction. Regardless of how slow it is, contact and communication between different people is what creates positive change.

And you and the other poster were just talking about Saudi Arabia progressing. But now that's somehow been wiped from your memory...

I guess no one should host sports tournaments because anyone capable of hosting one is run by cunts. Or we do what we do for every tournament in the west where sports is viewed separately from a country's politics but we do it for non-western countries as well.

I guess being consistent isn't for everyone. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, 6666 said:

I guess no one should host sports tournaments

Now you're cooking with gas

[Tommy]

Sports tournaments on international waters!