Would You Rather Win Domestic League/Cups or Champions League?

[SirBalon]

7 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

When did Liverpool or Spurs win the Premier League?? 

I think it would be quite a unique achievement of Spurs mamaged to get a Champions League tontheir name and enter the hall of fame of that tournament wirh only two league titles to their name in black and white. Would it be unprecedented?

[Happy Blue]

2 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

I think it would be quite a unique achievement of Spurs mamaged to get a Champions League tontheir name and enter the hall of fame of that tournament wirh only two league titles to their name in black and white. Would it be unprecedented?

It would be massive for any club to win it, it's the best cup to win for sure  ..the English & Spanish league titles is a bigger achievement though

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Burning Gold said:

Yes, and I don't think there could be much debate about it. We finished one point behind City in the league and we'd have the biggest prize in club football. Even if you value the league over the Champions League, I don't see how you could argue we hadn't had the better season in this hypothetical given how close we were in one and how much better we did in the other.

The more interesting question for me is what if Tottenham win it? There's no comparison in the league, but it'd be Tottenham going in the history books as champions of Europe, the envy of the continent. Which is more valuable? Let's hope we never have to have that discussion.

That discussion was had when we won it in 2005 and came 5th place. And it came the year before that when the final was Porto & Monaco too, tbh.

But to answer the question, for me the league. To be honest, and it kind of is a shame what modern football has done, but I don't really give a fuck about the domestic cups unless we aren't in Europe. I'd probably care more if we'd done better in those cups in recent years and we'd put ourselves in a position to progress to the later stages... But if we've got a European campaign, those competitions just become the lowest priority to me.

The CL is the most prestigious cup competition in football IMO. Fuck the world cup, the CL is always better. But I'd much rather see us win the league because the last time that happened I was 1 and I don't know a fucking thing about that because people don't remember things when they were 1. But for us in particular, the league is obviously the holy grail.

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Burning Gold said:

Yes, and I don't think there could be much debate about it. We finished one point behind City in the league and we'd have the biggest prize in club football. Even if you value the league over the Champions League, I don't see how you could argue we hadn't had the better season in this hypothetical given how close we were in one and how much better we did in the other.

The more interesting question for me is what if Tottenham win it? There's no comparison in the league, but it'd be Tottenham going in the history books as champions of Europe, the envy of the continent. Which is more valuable? Let's hope we never have to have that discussion.

I think City and Liverpool both still had the better season. Which makes Spurs winning a potentially not great outcome for the CL brand as if it was won every year by the 4th place team it would start to make the take as but of a shine off the eliteness of the trophy.

 

[SirBalon]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

I think City and Liverpool both still had the better season. Which makes Spurs winning a potentially not great outcome for the CL brand as if it was won every year by the 4th place team it would start to make the take as but of a shine off the eliteness of the trophy.

 

But you voted for the Champions League as being the utmost important trophy to win in signifying the most succesful season.

Now you've proved that isn't the case?

 

If Spurs were to win the Chanpions League next weekend which is something that wouldn't be all that unusual in a lne off game, especially a cup game. Would that suddenly demote Liverpool's season because they've won absolutely nothing? That's a really interesting question to be honest.

But the real question... Finishing 4th, being slightly better than mediocrity in the league, and winning a cup competition is better than what City have done?

If this is the case, then football has changed a lot as that wasn't the sentiment years back. Not saying it's wrong, just waiting for someone to really legitimise it with a proper argument and not just how great the Europea Cup is as a cup competition.

[LFCMike]

46 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

But you voted for the Champions League as being the utmost important trophy to win in signifying the most succesful season.

Now you've proved that isn't the case?

 

If Spurs were to win the Chanpions League next weekend which is something that wouldn't be all that unusual in a lne off game, especially a cup game. Would that suddenly demote Liverpool's season because they've won absolutely nothing? That's a really interesting question to be honest.

But the real question... Finishing 4th, being slightly better than mediocrity in the league, and winning a cup competition is better than what City have done?

If this is the case, then football has changed a lot as that wasn't the sentiment years back. Not saying it's wrong, just waiting for someone to really legitimise it with a proper argument and not just how great the Europea Cup is as a cup competition.

Spurs winning the Champions League would definitely be a bigger achievement than what City have done. Simply because of the budgets of both clubs and the way they have both gone about it

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Spurs winning the Champions League would definitely be a bigger achievement than what City have done. Simply because of the budgets of both clubs and the way they have both gone about it

That's not what I was arguing there mate and I think everyone would agree with that. But clubs and fans aren't going to start to apologise for being able to afford better things.

The argument is the importance of winning and what it signifies to the fans.

Hypothetical;

- Liverpool win the Premier League and FA Cup double in two seasons time.

- Manchester United win the Champions League and finish 3rd or 4th in thr league anything between 15 to 20 points behind.

 

Would the United fans have bragging rights you Liverpool fans would find difficult to defend yourselves from just because United had won the biggest club cup competition?

[LFCMike]

8 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

That's not what I was arguing there mate and I think everyone would agree with that. But clubs and fans aren't going to start to apologise for being able to afford better things.

The argument is the importance of winning and what it signifies to the fans.

Hypothetical;

- Liverpool win the Premier League and FA Cup double in two seasons time.

- Manchester United win the Champions League and finish 3rd or 4th in thr league anything between 15 to 20 points behind.

 

Would the United fans have bragging rights you Liverpool fans would find difficult to defend yourselves from just because United had won the biggest club cup competition?

We're constantly told that we'd be 'unbearable' if we win the league and that's the reason no-one wants us to win it, so no, I don't think they would! If Liverpool are winning things I genuinely couldn't care what other clubs are doing though.

[SirBalon]

9 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

We're constantly told that we'd be 'unbearable' if we win the league and that's the reason no-one wants us to win it, so no, I don't think they would! If Liverpool are winning things I genuinely couldn't care what other clubs are doing though.

That "unbearable" comment is thrown around due to its relativity mate. It's like me as an Arsenal fan saying it would be unbearable to see Spurs win the Champions League. Infact only the other day I said I'd leave the country to some mates if that happened!  It's meaningless!

It's as meaningless as the argument used to try and take merit away from Manchester City winning a historic treble just because they have money to have the best team and best coach. Clubs that are generally succesful have had the best team and best coach most of the time throughout history. It's as if they have to apologise for how they managed to acquire those players... That's not the club's or any clubs fault, it's the fault of the authorities and all those invoved in football on how they've not controlled that situation.

[CaaC (John)+]

1. EPL Title
2. UEFA 
3. FA Cup
4. Others

That's always been my way of thinking, the arguments I have had over the years with people saying the UEFA Champions League proves that you are the best in Europe and beat the best, my response is you will play and beat the best in rounds leading up to the final so why is winning it means you are the best in Europe? you could face the likes of some unknown club who has reached the final instead of playing teams like Barca, Real, Juve, Bayern etc.

Give me the EPL any day.   

[SirBalon]

21 minutes ago, CaaC - John said:

1. EPL Title
2. UEFA 
3. FA Cup
4. Others

That's always been my way of thinking, the arguments I have had over the years with people saying the UEFA Champions League proves that you are the best in Europe and beat the best, my response is you will play and beat the best in rounds leading up to the final so why is winning it means you are the best in Europe? you could face the likes of some unknown club who has reached the final instead of playing teams like Barca, Real, Juve, Bayern etc.

Give me the EPL any day.   

I feel the same way although it doesn't make us right because this is all down to preference.

But take for example what Ajax done this year in the Champions League... What if I were to say that taking everything into consideration and being balanced with an understanding eye to opponents along the way, whatever happens they are Europe's best team this year?

[Honey Honey]

I'd go for Premier League first. Reason being Liverpool finished 5th and Chelsea 6th wheb they won it and won't be remembered as great as a league winners season. 

[CaaC (John)+]

58 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

I feel the same way although it doesn't make us right because this is all down to preference.

A bit like United with the season just gone in Europe, we lost against Juve at home 1-0 then beat them away 2-1, lost to PSG at home 2-0 and then beat them away 1-3, lost to Barca after that 3-0 in the quarterfinals yet we have beaten Barca before in a European game over the years the same playing against Bayern so we have played the best and beaten the best just like a lot of other teams.

It's like Liverpool and Spurs this season, they have beaten the best to reach the final's in the UEFA Cup, so they have played the best but are not UEFA Champions yet, so for me being EUFA Champions is not the best because you do need a bit of luck to win some matches like United when they beat PSG away with a dodgy handball decision

The EPL is classed as the hardest league in the world played from August until May the next year, 38 league matches with European and Domestic Cup competitions in amongst them and with no winter break like a lot of other European countries so give me winning the EPL any day, when United won the famous treble in 99 if United had lost against Bayern we would have known we have beaten them before and a double of League Champions and FA Cup I would have been just as happy and that would have done me knowing United had a good season..

If Spurs do beat Liverpool in the final at least me and others will applaud Liverpool for pushing City all the way this season, 38 League matches and European and Domestic Cup matches and finishing second in the EPL so in all they have had a bloody good season all around and they HAVE beaten the BEST.       

[Harry]

6 hours ago, SirBalon said:

But you voted for the Champions League as being the utmost important trophy to win in signifying the most succesful season.

Now you've proved that isn't the case?

 

If Spurs were to win the Chanpions League next weekend which is something that wouldn't be all that unusual in a lne off game, especially a cup game. Would that suddenly demote Liverpool's season because they've won absolutely nothing? That's a really interesting question to be honest.

But the real question... Finishing 4th, being slightly better than mediocrity in the league, and winning a cup competition is better than what City have done?

If this is the case, then football has changed a lot as that wasn't the sentiment years back. Not saying it's wrong, just waiting for someone to really legitimise it with a proper argument and not just how great the Europea Cup is as a cup competition.

I did mate but I spoke of the overall assessment of a team being considerate of all of their performances in all tournaments, and also factor in the manner of them too. Therefore you don't just say whoever won the Champions league had the better year. 

The answer to this should have been resolved in the recent few years with Madrid and Barcelona having done almost exactly this.

[Happy Blue]

Anyone that takes a Cup over a League is a massive cunt! 

[Smiley Culture]

I’m probably in a camp all by myself here and it’s simplistic and stupid but I think it’s better to win absolutely anything on offer, regardless of the stature of the competition.

Whether you’re Manchester City and you’ve won the domestic treble or you’re Enfield Town and you’ve won the Ryman League Cup, a trophy should be celebrated equally.

Like I’ve heard plenty of people who were stood in beer gardens and throwing plastic pint cups around for “the bants” when England were scoring goals in the World Cup aren’t bothered by England winning the Nations League because of its standing amongst fans but England have won nothing since 1966, there’s anything up to four generations in some families that have never seen England win anything in their lifetime and regardless of its stature, winning the Nations League would be pretty big really.

[Rick]

6 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I’m probably in a camp all by myself here and it’s simplistic and stupid but I think it’s better to win absolutely anything on offer, regardless of the stature of the competition.

Whether you’re Manchester City and you’ve won the domestic treble or you’re Enfield Town and you’ve won the Ryman League Cup, a trophy should be celebrated equally.

Like I’ve heard plenty of people who were stood in beer gardens and throwing plastic pint cups around for “the bants” when England were scoring goals in the World Cup aren’t bothered by England winning the Nations League because of its standing amongst fans but England have won nothing since 1966, there’s anything up to four generations in some families that have never seen England win anything in their lifetime and regardless of its stature, winning the Nations League would be pretty big really.

Yeah, the league cup might have become a bit of a joke but I'd still be bloody chuffed if we won it. Same goes for Europa (though that's being taken more seriously in recent years).

[Azeem]

6 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I’m probably in a camp all by myself here and it’s simplistic and stupid but I think it’s better to win absolutely anything on offer, regardless of the stature of the competition.

Whether you’re Manchester City and you’ve won the domestic treble or you’re Enfield Town and you’ve won the Ryman League Cup, a trophy should be celebrated equally.

Like I’ve heard plenty of people who were stood in beer gardens and throwing plastic pint cups around for “the bants” when England were scoring goals in the World Cup aren’t bothered by England winning the Nations League because of its standing amongst fans but England have won nothing since 1966, there’s anything up to four generations in some families that have never seen England win anything in their lifetime and regardless of its stature, winning the Nations League would be pretty big really.

Agree that's what i said earlier the barometer of success is different for different countries and clubs. 

[Cicero]