Dr. Gonzo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Just now, SirBalon said: VVD didn’t make a mistake all season? That’s a ridiculous argument. No he’s made a few, but De Ligt has made more mistakes leading to goals in just a short span of months. It’s a bit mental to suggest he’s already better. Ones a developed senior pro and the other is a really promising young player who’s still developing. I think putting him on that high of a pedestal to where you/others rate him as the best CB around is setting him up for failure if he does move to Barca. Cuz he’s a good defender, no doubt, but he’s still a kid who’s developing. Last night Ruben Diaz looked 5x better than him. So no I don’t think you’re right that he’s better than Virgil, despite how impressive Ajax’s CL campaign was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Van Dijk has transformed Liverpool's leaky defence into one of the best in Europe. No attacker has managed to dribble past him and he's only made one mistake all season IIRC. Which was the penalty against City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 17 hours ago, CaaC (John) said: Not bad but still got a lot to learn, below is how a master of his craft does it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted June 10, 2019 Administrator Share Posted June 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Cicero said: Van Dijk has transformed Liverpool's leaky defence into one of the best in Europe. No attacker has managed to dribble past him and he's only made one mistake all season IIRC. Which was the penalty against City. Would failure to mark a big defender count as a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 56 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Van Dijk himself has said Messi deserves it and infact practically every player questioned on it has said the same over the past couple of weeks. Only someone that hasn’t watched Barcelona this season can say otherwise. Nothing against players in different positions being awarded the Ballon d’Or but it doesn’t come down to the Champions League when we’re talking a whole year and let’s not forget this is a team sport. Messi practically carried the team in the final months and had Barcelona not even won anything I’d feel he deserves it for that as they arrived at the final stages of everything and won La Liga. Sterling should win it, best player in the world this season playing in the strongest league, Messi only plays a handful of hard games a season ...defenders can not win it, that's just silly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 43 minutes ago, SirBalon said: De Ligt and De Jong have taken a kid’s side to the Semi-Final of the Champions League whipping the winners of the last three editions 1-4 at the Santiago Bernabéu and winning the League and Dutch Cup double. Now give me tangible evidence of your pov? Do it with reality backed up by facts! Rake up all the stats you want mate, VVD has been the best CB in the world this season, hence why hes favourite to win the ballon d'or. VVD has turned a very shakey defence into one of the tightest in Europe and has gotten to 2 CL finals consecutively, winning one. On league performance... had Manchester City played in the same league as Ajax, City would have won it by at least 20 points and so would Liverpool. It's a weak league mate. That's the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: Rake up all the stats you want mate, VVD has been the best CB in the world this season, hence why hes favourite to win the ballon d'or. VVD has turned a very shakey defence into one of the tightest in Europe and has gotten to 2 CL finals consecutively. That's the reality. You don’t seem to have understood my post mate. I did end my initial post on this with the word “relativity” which I’m now wondering whether that’s been understood. You can NEVER compare Liverpool (more so, this Liverpool) with what Ajax have achieved this season. No way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Liverpool lost the league on 97 points and won the Champions league final with Shaqiri and Origi as bench options throughout it's entirity. How can't you compare that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, SirBalon said: You don’t seem to have understood my post mate. I did end my initial post on this with the word “relativity” which I’m now wondering whether that’s been understood. You can NEVER compare Liverpool (more so, this Liverpool) with what Ajax have achieved this season. No way! You seem to have misunderstood my post pal which was in response to you saying that De Ligt has been better than VVD this season, which is obviously wrong. Never mind each clubs achievements, VVD has beyond doubt been the best CB on the planet for at least 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Why have people got beef with VVD being the best over the last 12+ months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: You seem to have misunderstood my post pal which was in response to you saying that De Ligt has been better than VVD this season, which is obviously wrong. Never mind each clubs achievements, VVD has beyond doubt been the best CB on the planet for at least 12 months. I haven’t got a problem wiith Van Dijk and what he’s brought to Liverpool. But the issue with football today is ignoring the whole picture and what surrounds them. De Ligt had to be mature beyond his years to be a part of what he was this season. Put it this way... Van Dijk himself said Messi has been the best player this year and like I said, relativeness also plays a part. Ajax and their achievements have to be placed on a different category to that of Liverpool. You know full well that I’ve praised Liverpool to the fullest and have a tremendous respect for everything achieved. The league campaign along with winning the Champions League is historic. But Ajax doing what they did has to be observed with a whole different eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I haven’t got a problem wiith Van Dijk and what he’s brought to Liverpool. But the issue with football today is ignoring the whole picture and what surrounds them. De Ligt had to be mature beyond his years to be a part of what he was this season. Put it this way... Van Dijk himself said Messi has been the best player this year and like I said, relativeness also plays a part. Ajax and their achievements have to be placed on a different category to that of Liverpool. You know full well that I’ve praised Liverpool to the fullest and have a tremendous respect for everything achieved. The league campaign along with winning the Champions League is historic. But Ajax doing what they did has to be observed with a whole different eye. We aren't measuring a clubs achievements though mate, we are simply debating who has been the best player between the two, which is VVD. Or shall we say that De Beek has been better than Messi because of what Ajax achieved? Come on mate, only a melt or an Ajax fanboy would think that De Ligt has been better than VVD this season. By your logic, Sheffield United getting to the Premiere League is a massive achievement and because of that Scott Hogan should be in contention for Ballon D'or because of his goal to get them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: We aren't measuring a clubs achievements though mate, we are simply debating who has been the best player between the two, which is VVD. Or shall we say that De Beek has been better than Messi because of what Ajax achieved? Come on mate, only a melt or an Ajax fanboy would think that De Ligt has been better than VVD this season. De Beek should be measured against Busquets, not Messi, and yes, he has been better than Sergio this season without a doubt. Club potential has to be taken into account of course. Ajax whipped Real Madrid at the Bernabéu while Liverpool lost 3-0 at the Camp Nou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 De Ligt is linked with Barcelona and Barcelona fanboys like to think they have some spiritual connection (other than completely stealing and raping Ajax's whole identity), that's why he 'thinks' De Ligt and Ajax are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, SirBalon said: De Beek should be measured against Busquets, not Messi, and yes, he has been better than Sergio this season without a doubt. Club potential has to be taken into account of course. Ajax whipped Real Madrid at the Bernabéu while Liverpool lost 3-0 at the Camp Nou. Real Madrid have been absolutely appalling this year. This is no wondrous achievement. Likewise the 3-0 at the Nou Camp was not reflective of the game at all. I don't even know who's better, or care but your obvious agenda when it comes to anything like this is palpable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, SirBalon said: De Beek should be measured against Busquets, not Messi, and yes, he has been better than Sergio this season without a doubt. Club potential has to be taken into account of course. Ajax whipped Real Madrid at the Bernabéu while Liverpool lost 3-0 at the Camp Nou. Oh dear Ballon my little sausage, you're having a mare here pal. Why would De Beek be compared with Busquets? What has Ajax winning a game against Madrid whilst Liverpool lose to Barca got to do with VVD and De Ligt being compared? Ballon d'or is a personal award to recognise a players performance throughout a season. You are trying to make it into a team debate. Way off the mark here pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Da Beek is an attacking midfielder? Why measure him to Busquets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Real Madrid have been absolutely appalling this year. This is no wondrous achievement. Likewise the 3-0 at the Nou Camp was not reflective of the game at all. I don't even know who's better, or care but your obvious agenda when it comes to anything like this is palpable. Real Madrid have been appalling for two years now and last year was epic without expecting what occurred this season. Very little difference from last season to this minus Cristiano Ronaldo to save the blushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I think DeLigt is going to be a beast, but no way is he better than Van Dijk. Mental argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ Posted June 10, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Happy Blue said: Sterling should win it, best player in the world this season playing in the strongest league, Messi only plays a handful of hard games a season ...defenders can not win it, that's just silly! I love you man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Oh Van Dijk, your critics can take a hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 19 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: Rake up all the stats you want mate, VVD has been the best CB in the world this season, hence why hes favourite to win the ballon d'or. VVD has turned a very shakey defence into one of the tightest in Europe and has gotten to 2 CL finals consecutively, winning one. On league performance... had Manchester City played in the same league as Ajax, City would have won it by at least 20 points and so would Liverpool. It's a weak league mate. That's the reality. That's a bit of an unfair comparison , If Ajax were in the Premier League they would have a bigger budget and would be able to attract big names unlike in the Dutch league they can only really attract such players or bring through their own like they are. As if Man City and Liverpool would be in the Eredivisie they wouldn't have the team they have now, so you can't even compare that scenario. So I can see why @SirBalon is making the claim, Ajax only get about 10 million a year in TV plus whatever else they make through the season, which is nowhere near to a Premier League club or La Liga. Due to the set up of Ajax and the people they have around the club they are able to produce players at such a young age that are ready to play at a high level with no fear as we have seen, Ajax is a very special club and doesn't need to be bankrolled. In de Ligts case he was also the one of the stars of the Ajax team 2 years ago at the age of 17 when they reached the final of the Europa league. de Ligt is probably 5 years ahead of someone of his age because the good thing about Ajax they are not afraid to play someone no matter what age they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, Panna King said: That's a bit of an unfair comparison , If Ajax were in the Premier League they would have a bigger budget and would be able to attract big names unlike in the Dutch league they can only really attract such players or bring through their own like they are. As if Man City and Liverpool would be in the Eredivisie they wouldn't have the team they have now, so you can't even compare that scenario. So I can see why @SirBalon is making the claim, Ajax only get about 10 million a year in TV plus whatever else they make through the season, which is nowhere near to a Premier League club or La Liga. Due to the set up of Ajax and the people they have around the club they are able to produce players at such a young age that are ready to play at a high level with no fear as we have seen, Ajax is a very special club and doesn't need to be bankrolled. In de Ligts case he was also the one of the stars of the Ajax team 2 years ago at the age of 17 when they reached the final of the Europa league. de Ligt is probably 5 years ahead of someone of his age because the good thing about Ajax they are not afraid to play someone no matter what age they are. This is why I kept on using the word "relative" in my argument which either wasn't understood or ignored. For Ajax to reach a semi-final of the Champions League, to knock-out the greatest. Let me highlight some of their results this season with what can be described as a bunch of kids at a club dwarfed by those they competed against... Bayern 1-1 Ajax Ajax 1-0 Benfica Benfica 1-1 Ajax Ajax 3-3 Bayern Real Madrid 1-4 Ajax Ajax 1-1 Juventus Juventus 1-2 Ajax Spurs 0-1 Ajax Many of those players are teenagers and that has to be taken into account. Imgine they were playing for some of those bigger sides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, SirBalon said: This is why I kept on using the word "relative" in my argument which either wasn't understood or ignored. For Ajax to reach a semi-final of the Champions League, to knock-out the greatest. Let me highlight some of their results this season with what can be described as a bunch of kids at a club dwarfed by those they competed against... Bayern 1-1 Ajax Ajax 1-0 Benfica Benfica 1-1 Ajax Ajax 3-3 Bayern Real Madrid 1-4 Ajax Ajax 1-1 Juventus Juventus 1-2 Ajax Spurs 0-1 Ajax Many of those players are teenagers and that has to be taken into account. Imgine they were playing for some of those bigger sides! For Ajax to reach the Europa Cup final and 2 years later a minute of reaching the Final of the Champions League in this day of age of football with their set up is remarkable. The thing is people's views of only big league players are only successful and should only be rewarded due to the marketing that goes on with leagues such as the premier league to make it the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, SirBalon said: This is why I kept on using the word "relative" in my argument which either wasn't understood or ignored. For Ajax to reach a semi-final of the Champions League, to knock-out the greatest. Let me highlight some of their results this season with what can be described as a bunch of kids at a club dwarfed by those they competed against... Bayern 1-1 Ajax Ajax 1-0 Benfica Benfica 1-1 Ajax Ajax 3-3 Bayern Real Madrid 1-4 Ajax Ajax 1-1 Juventus Juventus 1-2 Ajax Spurs 0-1 Ajax Many of those players are teenagers and that has to be taken into account. Imgine they were playing for some of those bigger sides! Nobody is denying the remarkable achievements of Ajax mate but sadly that isn't the topic at hand. The only point refuted from your original post was that De Ligt has been the player this season over VVD, which is nonsense. Not taking anything away from the potential that De Ligt possesses but hes far from VVD's level currently. Nor am I taking anything away from Ajax' achievements in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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