Rafa Benítez Leaves Newcastle United; Steve Bruce Hired

[...Dan]

47 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Mate, read this review of his book "Sweeper" - it's fucking classic https://thesetpieces.com/features/sweeper-steve-bruce-review/

I have things to do, but I can't stop reading this

[Dan+]

What the fuck have I just read?

[...Dan]

13 minutes ago, Dan said:

What the fuck have I just read?

A masterpiece.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

What the fuck have I just read?

A review of the brilliant literary mind of Steve Bruce

[Fairy In Boots]

The windows 95 images pasted into a front cover, so funny

[Honey Honey]

 

[LFCMadLad]

51 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

 

What a dickhead. 

[Honey Honey]

I reckon we'll finish 7th 

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Harvsky said:

I reckon we'll finish 7th 

You missed off a 1 just in front of the 7 there mate... 

 

[CaaC (John)+]

 

 

 

[Mel81x+]

16 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Mate, read this review of his book "Sweeper" - it's fucking classic https://thesetpieces.com/features/sweeper-steve-bruce-review/

I'll echo what's already been said before in this thread. WTF have I just read?

On topic: This seems like more of a punishment from the owner than any chance of being competitive in the league. I mean he went out and got a literal-loonbin to manage the team and to show that he could get someone instead of doing due diligence and selling the club to the only bidder who was interested.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Mel81x said:

I'll echo what's already been said before in this thread. WTF have I just read?

On topic: This seems like more of a punishment from the owner than any chance of being competitive in the league. I mean he went out and got a literal-loonbin to manage the team and to show that he could get someone instead of doing due diligence and selling the club to the only bidder who was interested.

According to Sky he was 11th choice... I don't know if that means 10 other people said no, but I'm assuming it does. I think Mike Ashley's reputation is probably offputting to a lot of prospective managers, and if they weren't backing Rafa financially while he had them punching above their weight... I don't think they'll do the same thing with a lesser manager.

[Honey Honey]

I have it on good authority that Lee Charnley despised Rafa and wanted him out. He exposed their running of the club and they didn't like it. 

If Bruce is 11th choice then not giving Rafa what he asked for to finish 8th has truly blown up in Charnley's face. The over promoted admin officer who needs £500k a year PR advice.

It's all about ambition. Charnley and Ashley have none. They're not interested in this club as a sporting institution, it solely exists as a business and advertising board.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbf Joe Hart is 32... which for a keeper isn't that young. So perhaps him getting the boot from City, looking a bit shite in Italy, and now finding himself more of a backup than a first team keeper... might mean he's not as good as you thought he was?  I don't think that's got anything to do with no respect towards English managers/players in England.

Like @LFCMike said, if they'd gone with a young English manager that's progressive... I doubt the reaction would be anywhere near as negative. But this is just an unambitious move from an unambitious side - bringing in a man who's looked out of his depth the last time he was in the top flight... and that was what, four years ago?

I don't blame the fans for losing passion about a team that doesn't care about it's fans. It's not like Mike Ashley has tried to match the fans ambition and failed, in which case you'd think "at least the fucker tried" - he doesn't give a fuck about the fan's ambition. He's just happy to have the club in the premier league so Sports Direct's logos will be broadcast internationally. Although I think by appointing Steve Bruce, he's going to take that top flight value out of his football club advertising project.

I could just as easily say "what about all those years as first team City keeper"? He wasn't a world class keeper by any means but nowhere near as bad as the English made him out to be. If he was German and playing for Dortmund, people would be wanking over him. Him being a backup at a smaller club doesn't mean he was bad, rather that he's declined.

It's the same with Harry Kane. I have noticed in his case it's more mixed (probably because of how good he is) but I've seen some brits say that he's nothing but a tap in merchant, yet they probably wank over Lewandowski. 

I only agree with Bruce being an unambitious move, but I can't help but think what the reaction would be like if he was German or Italian. 

[CaaC (John)+]

 

[Stan]

Apparently Darlow & Shelvey were caught up in some fracas the night before they flew out to China. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

I could just as easily say "what about all those years as first team City keeper"? He wasn't a world class keeper by any means but nowhere near as bad as the English made him out to be. If he was German and playing for Dortmund, people would be wanking over him. Him being a backup at a smaller club doesn't mean he was bad, rather that he's declined.

It's the same with Harry Kane. I have noticed in his case it's more mixed (probably because of how good he is) but I've seen some brits say that he's nothing but a tap in merchant, yet they probably wank over Lewandowski. 

I only agree with Bruce being an unambitious move, but I can't help but think what the reaction would be like if he was German or Italian. 

As City keeper he was playing in front of a better defense. I can't think of many times where Hart was the reason they kept three points, whereas with a lot of other keepers there will be plenty of times the team won.

I think people not rating Harry Kane for being a "tap in merchant" are just idiots. He's clearly England's best goalscorer, by a pretty long distance.

If Bruce was a manager that was well past his best of being a midtable Bundesliga manager that had last managed in the top flight 4 years ago and had since then been an alright manager (at best) in the league below, but one that completely lost the plot at a side that probably should have gone straight back up to the prem... I think Newcastle fans would be pretty disappointed to have that hypothetical passed his best Bundesliga manager replace Rafa.

Newcastle want someone that's going to take them forward. They don't care about the nationality, because if they had anyone who had a similar track record to Bruce in recent years they'd be obviously gutted.

You might not like Rafa because of his time at Napoli (although Sarri also thinks he did a good job and was happy with the side Rafa left for him) or Madrid (although I don't think his record was that bad at Madrid, but his philosophy would never fly with the fans at Madrid, nor the big egos of the dressing room there so that was a doomed appointment), and he may no longer ever be a top manager in Europe again (particularly because he's basically in working-retirement in China now) - but he was clearly doing a very good job at Newcastle. And he was asking for the resources to build on that side he had built that was getting more points by the end of each season since they were promoted than you probably would have expected by looking at that squad on paper.

It's a thoroughly unambitious move and if any club on the continent had decided to throw Steve Bruce into a top flight job, we'd all be laughing at them. And if Newcastle appointed some shite random French/German/Italian that had done as little has Bruce had, we'd still be saying "holy fuck, Mike Ashley is a shit owner of a football club."

I think because Newcastle fans care about their football club, it makes sense for them to stop caring about the club while it's operating like this. They need to stop turning up to matches and make Ashley feel some sting, because if they turn up to matches to protest Ashley won't give a fuck about the protest and probably laugh at them for filling the stands for him. And using a stadium as a billboard makes it look like much more shit of a billboard if it's empty.

[Dan+]

As a fan of a club who has had to put up with more than a fair share of snidey comments from people in the media because we have the gall to show some ambition, I find the comments from people like Danny Mills & Richard Keys (and others I'm sure) pathetic, but entirely predictable in the footballing media in England - it's largely absolute gutter nonsense with people totally alien to the idea that anybody outside of six clubs can show any kind of ambition.

Newcastle United simply don't have a single bit of ambition. Why should any fan accept that? It's not so much where they are now, it's the principle of it - why should any fan of any club stand for anything other than their club trying their hardest to grow and progress? The thought is alien to me.

There is simply no doubt about it - replacing Benitez with Steve Bruce in 2019 is the absolute peak of this joke Ashley era.

When Newcastle fans sit there and watch clubs like Watford & Bournemouth aiming higher than them it must be sickening. I certainly wouldn't tolerate it if it was us.

[Dan+]

Fair play to Michael Chopra as well by the way. Never used to like him but he's actually properly calling the whole thing out which seems to be rare from any ex-player of theirs.

[Fairy In Boots]

10 hours ago, Dan said:

As a fan of a club who has had to put up with more than a fair share of snidey comments from people in the media because we have the gall to show some ambition, I find the comments from people like Danny Mills & Richard Keys (and others I'm sure) pathetic, but entirely predictable in the footballing media in England - it's largely absolute gutter nonsense with people totally alien to the idea that anybody outside of six clubs can show any kind of ambition.

Newcastle United simply don't have a single bit of ambition. Why should any fan accept that? It's not so much where they are now, it's the principle of it - why should any fan of any club stand for anything other than their club trying their hardest to grow and progress? The thought is alien to me.

There is simply no doubt about it - replacing Benitez with Steve Bruce in 2019 is the absolute peak of this joke Ashley era.

When Newcastle fans sit there and watch clubs like Watford & Bournemouth aiming higher than them it must be sickening. I certainly wouldn't tolerate it if it was us.

That reminds me of our relegation season, to some degree Sunderland to. 

The lack of ambition eventually translates through to the squad who’ll just start half arsing it. 

If Bruce can wheel and deal and get some loans in he may have a chance, failing that I see a long hard season for the fans to tolerate. Which they rightly won’t they should full on spit the dummy, they’ve held out longer than most other fans have with this nonsense. You imagine this at Liverpool? 

Keys is a dinosaur stuck in the 90’s still asking his bland generic questions before the camera goes out and he then asks the guests “did you smash her?” Furry handed nonce. 

[Honey Honey]

We will likely spend some money but on buy to sell players from abroad that Bruce won't be picking. 

This club penny pinches window after window after window then spends at boiling point. Arsenal used to do similar. There's no incremental progression. The worst thing you can do is easily stay up because that's all they want, they think you don't need anything. Happened to Pardew, happened to Benitez. Carver nearly takes us down and bang,  we spend £50m in the summer on buy to sell, Mitrovic, Wijnaldum, Mbemba, Thauvin. We wouldn't buy anyone over 24. Now that everyone is saying it is going to be a long hard season they'll panic spend somewhat again.

When Rafa came in he said this side has no experience on this business model and that's your first problem. He had us sign players in their late 20s early 30s. He had us sign Premier League experience. 

We will now likely revert to type. 

Buy to sell is making a comeback starting with Joelinton. A player we've been linked with for over a year, showing Bruce isn't picking them. 

[Honey Honey]

Season ticket cancelled after 19 years. Lost all loyalty points as a result. The biggest loss however is the time shared with everyone, the shared passion and the shared experience, particularly with my father. It's going to be hard losing that. 

I don't have much to say anymore. Some who cancelled feel anger but I feel a great sense of loss, reluctance even. 

[Stan]

52 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

Season ticket cancelled after 19 years. Lost all loyalty points as a result. The biggest loss however is the time shared with everyone, the shared passion and the shared experience, particularly with my father. It's going to be hard losing that. 

I don't have much to say anymore. Some who cancelled feel anger but I feel a great sense of loss, reluctance even. 

It's probably a moot point but could you not have kept the season ticket (and loyalty points as a result) but just sold the 'ticket' each game to another fan (not that it sounds like there'll be a shortage on seats though this season...)?

[Honey Honey]

36 minutes ago, Stan said:

It's probably a moot point but could you not have kept the season ticket (and loyalty points as a result) but just sold the 'ticket' each game to another fan (not that it sounds like there'll be a shortage on seats though this season...)?

Part of the message to the club is to cancel, to not put money in and to have empty seats. 

If someone takes over and brings successes then obviously I will miss out on big games, but if it happens it may be in part because of the willingness to make that sacrifice.

Obviously no one will jump in the grave of myself and the 8k+ who cancelled straight away. Some results and maybe they will. 

[Dan+]

15 hours ago, Harvsky said:

We will likely spend some money but on buy to sell players from abroad that Bruce won't be picking. 

This club penny pinches window after window after window then spends at boiling point. Arsenal used to do similar. There's no incremental progression. The worst thing you can do is easily stay up because that's all they want, they think you don't need anything. Happened to Pardew, happened to Benitez. Carver nearly takes us down and bang,  we spend £50m in the summer on buy to sell, Mitrovic, Wijnaldum, Mbemba, Thauvin. We wouldn't buy anyone over 24. Now that everyone is saying it is going to be a long hard season they'll panic spend somewhat again.

When Rafa came in he said this side has no experience on this business model and that's your first problem. He had us sign players in their late 20s early 30s. He had us sign Premier League experience. 

We will now likely revert to type. 

Buy to sell is making a comeback starting with Joelinton. A player we've been linked with for over a year, showing Bruce isn't picking them. 

Your model actually works up to a point - the recruitment of younger players is better than it's given credit for, and the reason that you don't get this credit is because quite simply you haven't got the ambition to back it up and get noticed. You're right, no incremental progress, just treading water and using it to make money in the process. That's even more criminal in a way. If you held on to some of these players and kept them together you would actually do well. One of the most encouraging things I find about this Perez signing is that a lot of players (Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Thauvin) have left and gone on to do well, better than anyone would've imagined. I don't think that's a co-incidence. When you only ever aim to tread water, players are going to lose that desire.

Perez probably feels freed and like his career can take off, and I'm not just saying that to rub your nose in it. You as a club don't grow with these players and pick the money every single time. I'm in favour of selling if we get a bid for over the odds, but you've got to then use that money to make more buys rather than ones to just sell.

If you don't attempt to gradually improve, you will go backwards. It's been proven time and time again. I think sheer consolidation is basically impossible.