Referees/VAR in the Premier League

[LFCMike]

'Well done boys, good process ' 

[Mel81x+]

I was a bit over this and then I was thinking about it today when I saw the audio was released. When the VAR ref suspects an offside have them push a button and that automatically brings lines up on the screen they "have" to align to indicate an offside. The idea that someone is reviewing an event on the pitch with all this tech around and there are numerous ways to enforce the right thing is beyond me.

It's like when those mails got leaked and I sat there thinking about which monkeys are running tech in one of the most profitable sports on the planet. The tech isn't the issue anymore it's the people using the tech and the number of silly problems they've had it with all boils down to lack of enforcement of protocol. 

Edit: We can laser precision send a probe to a planet millions of light years away, but we can't get someone in a room to draw a few lines with some consistency. Baffling. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

How was the replay operator the most competent person there? These are supposed to be professionals, yet the one guy who's not actually an official is the one who caught the mistake before everyone else.

Joke. He sounds like a kid and he'd probably be a better head of PMGOL than the lot of them.

[Bluewolf]

That sounded like a right cluster fuck... 

[Stan]

It's at this point they could have just checked what they're actually checking, and cleared up the comms:

 

And then at this point they could have paused the game, merely a few seconds (if that!) after the restart. Yes, Spurs would have argued that the game restarted so should have carried on, but if you're looking at the integrity of the game to clear up a 'clear and obvious error', then go back and give the goal:

 

 

Then, weirdly, the replay operator confirms 'are you happy with this?'. Even weirder, is that the Assistant Ref says 'yeah, offside, goal, yeah'. SO CLEAR, lads. FFS.

 

Then the PGMOL Hub Ops chimes in way too late, asking to 'delay'.

 

This is the most frustrating thing - 'Can't do anything'. Yes. Yes you can. Stop the game. Take some initiative. 

 

 

Simon Hooper isn't to blame here, and he's been majorly let down by his assistants on the pitch and in VAR. How he wasn't communicated with at any point is beyond me.

[Dr. Gonzo]

That Assistant VAR is probably the most useless person in football. Do your fucking job mate, why's the replay operator the only one paying attention?

Absolutely moronic from Darren England though to: 1.) not be 100% sure of what he's checking, 2.) to use the vaguest possible language "offside, goal" FFS that's like saying a traffic light's "red, green" - nobody's going to know what the fuck he's talking about.

I knew the audio would make the officials look bad, but fucking hell... I'm just blown away by how inept the VAR officials are. Why do they seem so rushed when they've taken far longer on decisions that seem much easier to review the video and come to a decision? How's Darren England not paying attention to what the decision on the pitch was? Why's the Assistant VAR basically dead silent until far too late?

One guy can't be bothered to pay attention to his job. The other guy can't be simply bothered to do his job. The only person displaying any competence in the VAR review is the guy who's operating the technology and isn't even an official. It really does strengthen the case that the people conducting VAR review shouldn't be the same people that VAR is meant to check the decisions of. If these people can't be bothered, bring in people who can be bothered.

£100+k a year for a job that probably isn't that many hours a week and you can't even be bothered to be paying attention? People with harder jobs that take more from their day to day lives are on less than them. "Can't do anything" fuck off, they've brought players out of the locker room before. Cook's not even doing anything in the booth, what's the point of even having him there?

[6666]

44 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How was the replay operator the most competent person there? These are supposed to be professionals, yet the one guy who's not actually an official is the one who caught the mistake before everyone else.

Joke. He sounds like a kid and he'd probably be a better head of PMGOL than the lot of them.

I was gonna say the same thing. 

I guess they're gonna have to clearly state if the goal is onside or offside in order to avoid confusion. Something they probably should've been doing already.

[Reluctant Striker]

Sounds like a total farce ! Not really a surprise, but still shocked at how bad it sounds ! They clearly need to tighten up the conversations. Clear & simple. Standardised expected comments, requests, statements, etc. VAR should never, ever, be vaguely agreeing with things looking ok. It needs, Offside-no goal. Or Onside-Goal is good. etc. Everything freezes on field until the magic words either way are spoken. It really is shocking that is apparently not how it works right now.

[LFCMike]

Why does the VAR say 'off' if they're going with the narrative that he thought the onfield decision was onside? 

VAR: Check complete, check complete. That's fine, perfect (showing Diaz is clearly onside). Off.

[Devil]

Who the hell was in charge of the situation. The moment someone said stop the action we've made a mistake they should have stopped the game. 

The fall out from this is bigger than people saying they shouldn't be able to stop the game once the check is over. 

It almost felt like when an accident happens at work and few people claim it won't get noticed in the thin hope it doesn't.

Clusterfuck

[Gunnersaurus]

I can understand where it has gone wrong after hearing it. I work in an environment that needs good communication or everything breaks down. But the communication here  is to casual. It should be more structures and disciplined. That should already be in place. Obviously there is human error here but there should be a system like in rugby where it is clear.  Mistakes can still happen but if you have a clear system of communication there it is less likely. As I said I work in an environment where good communication is essential. I sometimes find it hard to make words out after years of ear infections  and because its load.  So I  always ask for clear instructions and repeat them back to make sure. It's very frustrating working with people who muffle and turn away when talking to you or who aren't very clear with what they mean.  But this is elite level sport it should be better than this. Communication is everyone's responsibility, everyone has to make sure they are as clear as they can be that they have given their instruction clearly and that they are sure they understand instruction clearly. 

 

[Gunnersaurus]

3 hours ago, LFCMike said:

Why does the VAR say 'off' if they're going with the narrative that he thought the onfield decision was onside? 

VAR: Check complete, check complete. That's fine, perfect (showing Diaz is clearly onside). Off.

They said something about one of them(possibly the referee) can't hear what one of them (ole I think) was saying. But I don't think the referee is involved in that part so I don't think that's it. I think possibly because he thinks the goal has been allowed he doesn't pay enough attention and so doesn't notice him say off. 

[Dave]

Luton, Burnley, Everton and Wolves all taking wins off each other should make this an exciting relegation battle. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Darren England now won’t be allowed to officiate us, but he’s not getting sacked.

Bit weird that - unless they’re admitting he’s biased. He’s either good enough to referee every team or he’s not.

If he’s deemed not good enough to referee team, he should be sacked.

So sack him.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/10/04/darren-england-not-officiate-liverpool-season-var-error/

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Darren England now won’t be allowed to officiate us, but he’s not getting sacked.

Bit weird that - unless they’re admitting he’s biased. He’s either good enough to referee every team or he’s not.

If he’s deemed not good enough to referee team, he should be sacked.

So sack him.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/10/04/darren-england-not-officiate-liverpool-season-var-error/

Or they're saving themselves the absolute shite they'll get from Liverpool fans if he's given a Liverpool game again this season. Nothing to do with biased, that's just conjecture. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

Or they're saving themselves the absolute shite they'll get from Liverpool fans if he's given a Liverpool game again this season. Nothing to do with biased, that's just conjecture. 

 

He should take the abuse for how badly he’s fucked up tbh.

and if they’re going to spare him the abuse, sack him off.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He should take the abuse for how badly he’s fucked up tbh.

and if they’re going to spare him the abuse, sack him off.

I think you need to let it go mate  

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Stan said:

I think you need to let it go mate  

Nah I actually find it insulting that he gets £150k base salary, a match bonus for each match… and yet the standards are so low for them that any little slight towards them hurts their precious feelings so much so they never have to really feel consequences for being shite.

Keeping shite like that around and expecting standards to change is just delusional & prevents actual reforms.

[Stan]

58 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Nah I actually find it insulting that he gets £150k base salary, a match bonus for each match… and yet the standards are so low for them that any little slight towards them hurts their precious feelings so much so they never have to really feel consequences for being shite.

Keeping shite like that around and expecting standards to change is just delusional & prevents actual reforms.

Maybe the people above them can instigate that change. 

Calling them all names under the sun days after the event or wishing they were dead doesn't actually change anything, does it? 

It's not about precious feelings or anything like that. Just a bit weird it's continued 5 days later as if we can actually change anything or influence it. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Maybe the people above them can instigate that change. 

Calling them all names under the sun days after the event or wishing they were dead doesn't actually change anything, does it? 

It's not about precious feelings or anything like that. Just a bit weird it's continued 5 days later as if we can actually change anything or influence it. 

What I’m supposed to suddenly like them because it’s been 5 days?

[Stan]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What I’m supposed to suddenly like them because it’s been 5 days?

Where did I say you're supposed to like them? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 minutes ago, Stan said:

Where did I say you're supposed to like them? 

You’re telling me it’s a bit weird I still want them stacked because it’s been 5 days.

whoopdeefuckindoo it’s been 5 days, they still should be sacked. Doesn’t matter if I can’t do anything, I can’t change or influence anything about this league. I still want them sacked.

[Mel81x+]

I think the idea of just having him not ref a certain teams' games is a bit stupid honestly. You telling us that the rest of the teams in the league want this guy who has now proven he can't utilize the tech and the protocols given to him should accept what he's done? Godforbid he does it again. Then what happens? Oh, now you can only referee these 18 teams ? 

Why are we being given special treatment here. Either fix all of it or don't. I'd rather the FA took a clear stance here instead of pandering to clubs and doing this kind of nonsense when evidence is presented. I don't want a replay and I think that would be a farce and a slap on the faces of every other club that has been wronged due to clear and obvious bad decisions by refs. Now every other club will use this as an excuse to say Liverpool got special treatment and to me that's just as bad if not worse. 

P.S. the FA is now clearly saying the following "we're okay with our folks being shit, you just don't have to deal with one of them, but we can't guarantee, nor will we guarantee a level of fairness and competence". 

[LFCMike]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Darren England now won’t be allowed to officiate us, but he’s not getting sacked.

Bit weird that - unless they’re admitting he’s biased. He’s either good enough to referee every team or he’s not.

If he’s deemed not good enough to referee team, he should be sacked.

So sack him.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/10/04/darren-england-not-officiate-liverpool-season-var-error/

Exactly.

More time for trips to UAE though

[Dave]

@Stan sadly this attitude towards referees is a culture at the club that's seeped in over time through Jurgen Klopp.

I was embarrassed for him at Selhurst watching him chewing his veneers like some crack addict desperate for his fix yelling obscenities at the officials at every occasion. After that I noticed it a lot more, all fan bases thought Andy Robertson shouting at that official before getting clocked was out of order, Liverpool fans thought it was fair game. Nearly all fan bases thought Moruinho was a disgrace for his antics after the Europa Conferance final, Liverpool fans thought it was fair game.

Now they've got this ghost goal to justify viewpoints and behaviours that are quite frankly unacceptable.