Manchester United Discussion

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

To be fair, you’re comparing KDB in a Manchester City absolutely loaded with talent to Pogba at United.

You know I’m not his biggest fan, but who’s does he have to create for? Who’s making runs like Sterling?

I would agree to a point but don't you think that in a squad that is not exactly loaded with talent that Pogba should be the standout performer??? and I would use Hazard for us as an example... Not exactly surrounded by world class talent but he could be creative and carve out chances for himself with the way he applied himself in matches.. I don't see Pogba doing that for United.  

[DeadLinesman]

2 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

I would agree to a point but don't you think that in a squad that is not exactly loaded with talent that Pogba should be the standout performer??? and I would use Hazard for us as an example... Not exactly surrounded by world class talent but he could be creative and carve out chances for himself with the way he applied himself in matches.. I don't see Pogba doing that for United.  

Hazard and Pogba are worlds apart in their play though. Pogba isn’t a wide player with speed, he tends to be more like a lanky giraffe that glides through defenders on the counter. My point being that Pogba doesn’t have those players around him to elevate him. He’s what I call a world class ‘luxury’ because when he has the tools around him, he looks great. Take them away and he consistently flounders in my opinion.

[Teso dos Bichos]

 

[Cicero]

5th choice at United 

[Teso dos Bichos]

3 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Hazard and Pogba are worlds apart in their play though. Pogba isn’t a wide player with speed, he tends to be more like a lanky giraffe that glides through defenders on the counter. My point being that Pogba doesn’t have those players around him to elevate him. He’s what I call a world class ‘luxury’ because when he has the tools around him, he looks great. Take them away and he consistently flounders in my opinion.

Consistently flounders yet he leads the team in a plethora of categories and he is one of the top midfielders in Europe stat wise while being the main midfielder defensively and offensively... consistency is all he lacks and if he can master that, he will go down as the greatest midfielder of all time simple because he does it all for his team..

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

 

Stats do lie. There are lots of other things players do that aren't on the stats list. At Leicester you have to do more defending so stats for certain things can be higher. It's like saying Casper schmeichel is better than De Gea because he makes more saves

[Cicero]

No one said Pogba isn’t a good player. It’s when you suggest he’s as good, if not better, than KDB when KDB has been the best attacking midfielder in Europe going on the past 3 years now.

KDB doesn’t make fundamental mistakes. Pogba does, and often. This has nothing to do with who they are playing alongside. Bringing up nitpicked stats in a season where KDB was injured 3/4 of the year, doesn’t strengthen that argument. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Cicero

[Teso dos Bichos]

The duel success average doesn't lie though. Either way, neither of the two come close to Vidic or Ferdinand 

[Stan]

40 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

 

Anyone could tell you van Dijk is a better defender than Maguire though? Even before the transfer. 

What point are you trying to prove here? 

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

Anyone could tell you van Dijk is a better defender than Maguire though? Even before the transfer. 

What point are you trying to prove here? 

That Maguire is United’s 5th best CB, while simultaneously being as good as Van Dijk because he’s signed for United. 

[Danny]

Seeing as Van Dijk excels quite clearly under interceptions which is generally a part of the game that seperates the good from the best due to intelligence to read a game required I can’t see how those statistics suggest Maguire is better? The statistics in themselves are selective anyway and you’re lying to yourself if you believe Sky are trying to correctly analyse the players rather than throw up stats from both players strengths to create at debate

Also it’s well known that it’s more difficult to analyse a defender statistically as a lot of the work a good defender does can’t as easily be collated and marked down as a specific stat compared to a striker for example. The stats available are definitely not being interpreted correctly or shared by Sky Sports as we already know Van Dijk is better than Maguire. The masses aren’t interested in further statistical analysis to prove that point, but put an image trying to portray that it might be a lot closer and shock horror a pointless debate kicks off

Honestly this topic is about 90% spam, no wonder people barely post in it other than every now and then when a Pogba debate kicks off

[Spike]

Yeah, if Van Dijk has 100 chances and intercepts 80 that is better than Maguire intercepting 100 from 140

[Guest]

Stats are so misused. Sometimes they do accurately represent a situation, but without any context it's just meaningless.

[Danny]

11 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yeah, if Van Dijk has 100 chances and intercepts 80 that is better than Maguire intercepting 100 from 140

I’ve read that wrong haven’t I? Thought it was total so far not minutes

[Harry]

Those Twitter comparison images usually pick statistics and measures that fit with their pre designed hypothesis and making things look closer than they are.

[LFCMadLad]

5 hours ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

The duel success average doesn't lie though. Either way, neither of the two come close to Vidic or Ferdinand 

Go to bed mate and stay off the ale. Its literally ruining your reputation. You constantly bang on about how good Utd players are whilst constantly slagging off Klopp and Liverpool..  Despite us absolutely pissing all over Utd in every department. 

Take a tablet, settle down and get counselling regarding your obsession with Liverpool. It's doing you more harm than good mate. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

The duel success average doesn't lie though. Either way, neither of the two come close to Vidic or Ferdinand 

Also, not a pop at Teso in particular but more at something SirBalon said in the Eto'o thread the other day. Nostalgia needs to stop getting in the way of our feelings. Salah and Van Dijk will be remembered once they retire because both are and were outrageous talents. I was too young to remember Ferdinand but my family always found him overrated, so I believe them. In terms of Salah as one of the best African talents ever, how could he not be? He's been the star of this Liverpool side that's gotten unlucky in the PL and won the CL as well as made a final run.

Now that post could come across as very wrong for some older posters, but the point I'm making is nostalgia gets in the way sometimes of what's actually true. 

[Spike]

3 hours ago, Danny said:

I’ve read that wrong haven’t I? Thought it was total so far not minutes

Sorry, my bad typing it out. I meant for instance 80 interceptions in 100 chances to i intercept. I was trying to point out that stats often leave out other vital information.

[CaaC (John)+]

Just waiting for the official site saying such though but Castles is normally reliable with news like this. 

 

 

[DeadLinesman]

16 hours ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

Consistently flounders yet he leads the team in a plethora of categories and he is one of the top midfielders in Europe stat wise while being the main midfielder defensively and offensively... consistency is all he lacks and if he can master that, he will go down as the greatest midfielder of all time simple because he does it all for his team..

Do you not think a world class player should start with consistency first? He’ll never go down as the best midfielder of all time, ever. But that’s just my opinion. He won’t even go down as the best midfielder United have had. Stats mean fuck all if there’s no end product. Only one stat matters, and that’s the win column.

[DeadLinesman]

11 hours ago, Grizzly21 said:

Nostalgia needs to stop getting in the way of our feelings.

I was too young to remember Ferdinand but my family always found him overrated, so I believe them.

Now that post could come across as very wrong for some older posters, but the point I'm making is nostalgia gets in the way sometimes of what's actually true. 

Oh sweet irony. Like the nostalgia of your family members opinions making you believe Ferdinand was overrated? I’m pretty certain even Liverpool fans on here would agree that Ferdinand and Vidic were absolutely fucking class.

But hey, what would I know having watched them live over several seasons at Old Trafford 

[DeadLinesman]

14 hours ago, Danny said:

Honestly this topic is about 90% spam, no wonder people barely post in it other than every now and then when a Pogba debate kicks off

Teso can post anything United related in here because it’s the United thread. It turns into a shit show because everyone runs in to bait him, just like he can bait them in other threads. If there’s issues in those threads, then report it and it can be dealt with and deleted accordingly. If he wants to post stats and opinion, there’s absolutely fuck all wrong with that.

If members want to challenge that using decent arguments, again I’ve got no problem with that. Let’s not just have “you’re a cunt”, “you’re drunk”, “Liverpool are amazeballs”, “get counselling” etc. It fucking helps nobody. 

I was like it years ago. I decided to grow up. More established members need to do the same.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Oh sweet irony. Like the nostalgia of your family members opinions making you believe Ferdinand was overrated? I’m pretty certain even Liverpool fans on here would agree that Ferdinand and Vidic were absolutely fucking class.

But hey, what would I know having watched them live over several seasons at Old Trafford 

That isn’t nostalgia though 

[DeadLinesman]

59 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

That isn’t nostalgia though 

My apologies, I’ve always thought of nostalgia as looking to the past in general, rather than associating it with positive or whimsical memories. Can I ask why your family think he’s overrated? What have they based it on?

[Guest]

Just now, DeadLinesman said:

My apologies, I’ve always thought of nostalgia as looking to the past in general, rather than associating it with positive or whimsical memories. Can I ask why your family think he’s overrated? What have they based it on?

My dad is a Leeds fan and my uncle is a Liverpool fan, neither of them were big fans of Ferdinand. They say they just didn't like him as a defender. Of course, overrated doesn't imply "bad", but it's just their personal opinion of Ferdinand as a whole. Weren't a fan of their style of defending. They both watch more Premier League football than me currently, and have been huge English football fans since they moved to South Africa back in the 70's, so I trust them but I myself don't have a genuine say on why I think he was overrated.