Manchester United Discussion

[DeadLinesman]

[CaaC (John)+]

 

[CaaC (John)+]

[ScoRoss]

 

[Teso dos Bichos]

 

An overwhelming sense of sadness shrouded the pleasure of spending a couple of hours yesterday watching footage of Paul Pogba’s supreme moments at Manchester United, particularly the passing, the elegant way in which he releases Marcus Rashford and Anthony Martial with a swish of his right foot.

Such joy became dragged into frustration at a feeling of exceptional talent insufficiently expressed, of the likelihood of Pogba eventually leaving next year with greatness unfulfilled at United, a World Cup winner who never fully delivered at Old Trafford. Regrets? Club and player should have a few.

The undeniable impression of wasted opportunity felt particularly poignant after listening to a senior figure at Old Trafford describe Pogba as a “perfect professional”, a likeable individual far removed from the frequent depiction of a diva.

The modern media are obsessed with the personality, as much as the player, which can be dispiriting at times, as Pogba’s pure, intoxicating footballing ability, his passing over distance, switching play, guiding team-mates behind defences, deserves to be appreciated properly.

So forget the highlights in the hair and focus on the moments on the field when Pogba raises the game to an art form through sureness of technique and strength of vision. With Eden Hazard gone, the Premier League needs Pogba’s capacity for taking the breath away with one thought, one touch.

Remember the technique and imagination away to Leicester City last season, Pogba so alive to Wilfred Ndidi arriving fast yet so in control, so capable of readjusting his body in a split second, connecting with his right foot and lifting the ball perfectly over Harry Maguire and Ben Chilwell for Rashford to run through and score. Brilliance in a blur.

And think of Rashford too. Watching the young England striker, so committed to the team he loves, constantly making all those runs, praying for a ball that rarely comes, he deserves so much sympathy.

He misses Pogba. Rashford is a far more effective forward when Pogba is in the side, on the ball, looking for him.

Rashford, 21, likes Pogba as a friend, a role model, almost a mentor, but primarily because he reads his runs. United are a more cohesive, threatening team with Pogba letting loose Rashford and Martial.

Remember Wembley in January, when Pogba suddenly seized on lax Tottenham Hotspur play on the left and immediately picked out Rashford. That is why in any discussion of Pogba’s importance to United — and why they are a lesser unit without him — it is important to analyse the passes, the assists, the contributions to team moves, as much as the goals.

For all the belittling narrative about a player only interested in himself, Pogba is actually a strong team man.

Now 26, moving towards his prime, Pogba has made 100 Premier League appearances, scoring 24 times and contributing 25 assists. For a midfield player, bizarrely played deep at times, almost on the toes of his centre backs, involvement in a goal every other game is a decent return, especially in a struggling side. Those stats junkies scrutinising his return from different positions inevitably celebrate his more productive contribution when deployed as a No 10. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, the United manager, fielding Pogba deep, alongside Scott McTominay, inhibits him.

The time will come when James Garner, the 18-year-old from Birkenhead, will mature into the calm, committed, ball-winning, ball-playing central midfield player that United so desperately need. Pogba may well have left by then, sadly, because a midfield of Garner-McTominay-Pogba in a 4-3-3 would combine mobility, pressing, energy and a stronger link to the forwards.

If all the hard work that Pogba puts into rehabilitation from ankle and foot injuries does preclude his involvement against Liverpool on Sunday, he will simply be even more appreciated if Fred continues as an underwhelming understudy or if Nemanja Matic, willing but, at 31, slowing, starts alongside McTominay at Old Trafford.

Pogba has been posting clips of his workouts in Dubai, trying to regain fitness in time for a fraught fixture that many United fans are dreading, as Jürgen Klopp’s European champions and league leaders could shred their vulnerable rivals in the 230th meeting.

Such is the widespread acknowledgement of Liverpool’s superiority that there was little derision towards Danny Mills when he refused to include any of Solskjaer’s players in a combined United and Liverpool XI for Sky Sports yesterday. Some United fans swarmed online to suggest spikily that a fit Pogba would get in ahead of Jordan Henderson but otherwise there was a meek acceptance of the former England defender’s verdict.

Sometimes these one-sided XIs feel like publicity stunts. Nobody could really argue with Mills’s line-up of a returning Allison; Alexander-Arnold, Matip, Van Dijk, Robertson; Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum; Salah, Firmino and Mané.

Those squeaks of support for Pogba did underline the belief that he is United’s sole truly world-class player, especially with David De Gea slipping below his usual high standards.

That entertaining trawl through Pogba’s rich resume simply showed as much, whether stunning the ball and then flicking past Pablo Zabaleta and Felipe Anderson against West Ham United, or dummying to pass with his right then steering it to Martial with his left instep past Chelsea’s N’Golo Kanté.

So many flashes of flair: a perfect one-two with Rashford before driving the ball 40 yards behind Everton’s Seamus Coleman to Martial; using the outside of his right foot to propel the ball behind Watford’s defence to Ashley Young; the skill and power to elude Mark Noble and dink a pass to Juan Mata at the London Stadium last season.

United fans understandably become vexed that such splendid threads in passages of play do not form a full tapestry.

Pogba undeniably could do more, could respond to the absence of stellar quality around him and simply take charge more. He could lift United to a higher plane.

Culpability resides on both sides, on United’s for not recruiting more class and on Pogba for not searching for the solution inside himself.

With United labouring, it is understandable that Pogba may be keen on pastures new, especially at Real Madrid next summer when they will have more money available, assuming his admirer, Zinédine Zidane, remains the head coach.

And Pogba is more than just a player, more than a marketing man’s dream, he is also an ambassador for the game, encouraging children to devote themselves to school (“Education is key”), fighting against intolerance (“Racist insults are ignorance and can only make me stronger and motivate me to fight for the next generation”) and campaigning on environmental issues (“Do you know in 20 years there may be more plastic than fish at the sea?”)

Pogba can frustrate, can fail to track back, but when properly used, he is patently world class, the “perfect professional” in the words of that supportive club source, and United — and English football — would be all the poorer without him.

His critics among the United fan base simply have to ask themselves this: Fred or Pogba?

Henry winters literally summed up what I've been preaching! With Eden gone, individually Pogba is above ALL the rest of the PL players. But let's focus on his dances and the bad plays that are a result of the frustration cause by the coach and the other players. If he leaves for RM, it would be the greatest mistake since appointing that dingleberry Moyes 

[True Blue]

With Eden Hazard gone, the Premier League needs Pogba’s capacity for taking the breath away with one thought, one touch

Stopped reading there to be fair

[Teso dos Bichos]

9 minutes ago, True Blue said:

With Eden Hazard gone, the Premier League needs Pogba’s capacity for taking the breath away with one thought, one touch

Stopped reading there to be fair

Your loss... every word that guy wrote is the absolute truth... it's sad that a liverpool like @Dr. Gonzo at least gives credit were is due instead of jumping on the silly hate bandwagon 

[True Blue]

I don't even think Pogba is a bad player, never stated he was a bad player. However your posts that make him the best midfielder in the league are not true by any means.

[Teso dos Bichos]

He has all the skills to be the best player in the league. His attitude and agent deserve blame but mostly it's the poor transfer strategy by Woodward and the pressure it adds on to deliver by those who join the team because the problem was well rooted before saf but his folks had it on cruise control. A year or two away from maybe getting rid of all the deadwood and a proper coach and the cleansing will be over... until then, no elite coach will take the risk. 

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

He has all the skills to be the best player in the league. His attitude and agent deserve blame but mostly it's the poor transfer strategy by Woodward

That's pretty much all you need to know right there... You can have all the skill in the world but if you never apply yourself to the task at hand then it's meaningless... If he imposed himself more in games and gave 100% each match then you might be able to point out that the players around him were not of sufficient skill to compliment his efforts but if you just come out and trudge around for 90 minutes then you can't really point the finger at anyone else for not performing well... 

Hazard is a good example of a big player that showed it week in and week out.. There was a period under Mourinho where the whole team took a bit of a nose dive him included I admit but for the most part you got a buzz of anticipation that the bloke could turn a game on it's head when he came on, he made things happen, influenced the play and created and scored goals,, you just don't get that same vibe from Pogba.. 

[Teso dos Bichos]

His attitude is triggered by doing way more than any midfielder in the PL has to do while still being effective forward with passes and goals... not just any passes, even KdB would struggle to match the assists only pogba and a few that have played the game, could ever make... I dont understand what's so hard to understand about that. I'll stand by this, if pogba had the freedom and players that KbD, he would be a top three player  worldwide EVERY single year. He does what busquets can do WhILe doing what busquets is to afraid to do, shoot the ball and score. .

[Stan]

Pogba does what Busquets does?

What?

Busquets is best known for his defensive qualities - tackling, intercepting, reading/awareness of the game, breaking up attacks and disrupting opposition play, off-loading the ball simply.

For most of that (all but the last point), I don't see Pogba doing that at all. 

Looking back at last season, he made 47 tackles across the whole season. https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_tackle?se=274

Regarding your first sentence, he doesn't do way more than any PL midfielder. Laughable claim with your red-tinted glasses on. No issues with claiming he can score and influence goals/chances but to claim he possesses some world-class defensive quality in addition to that is just ridiculous.

[Teso dos Bichos]

After looking at liverpool's record at OT in the last decade...

Klopps immaculate record versus man utd (fuck you moyes but even with moyes it took 3 PKs and Vidic getting 2 yellows ) 

Man utd's league leading defensive stats versus a defense that only allowed 3 goals versus that European giant (most recent cl game)

Rashford's inability to score while the best font three scores nonstop ...... 

Man utd 3-1 the team that hasn't won a league title since roger Federer had ZERo grand slams 

 

Just win United just fucking win 

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

Man utd's league leading defensive stats

eh?

Is maths not your strong point?

 

[Bluewolf]

29 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

His attitude is triggered by doing way more than any midfielder in the PL has to do while still being effective forward with passes and goals

So pretty much the same things Hazard had to do then??? Just I didn't see Hazard feeling overwhelmed by the responsibility of it all.. he came out and gave it his best shot every time as you might come to expect from a world class player... Pogba will get out of it what he is prepared to put into it, nothing more nothing less... 

[Teso dos Bichos]

Spoiler alert... it wasn't kante whose awareness, hustle, and set up made that goal possible... kante was helpless after seein what a real complete and physically gifted midfielder can do in a matter of seconds..... 

 

 

 

Busquets and kante have master what they can only offer but Pogba can do anything  a freak of nature that has no problem breaking or setting wc records...

I'll send you the rest on the group chat stanley..

. 

[LFCMike]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

eh?

Is maths not your strong point?

 

I seen something that was posted by the MEN that is trying to claim this.  it's based on xG conceded.

Edited October 16, 2019 by LFCMike

[Stan]

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

I seen something that was posted by the MEN that is trying to claim this.  it's based on xG conceded.

I can't stand xG as much as @LFCMadLad can't stand VAR 

[Cicero]

@Stan can’t stand xG as much as @Teso dos Bichos can’t stand Marcos Alonso enjoying life 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Cicero

[LFCMadLad]

53 minutes ago, Stan said:

I can't stand xG as much as @LFCMadLad can't stand VAR 

I'm in Mexico so VAR can suck my fat one 

[Cicero]

Paul Pogba's attitude has long been the first aspect of his game questioned by his critics, and his old boss knows all about why.

Mourinho reportedly told Pogba during a 2-2 draw with Southampton: "You don't play. You don't respect players and supporters. And you kill the mentality of the good honest people around you.

 

Interesting. Thoughts @Teso dos Bichos?

[Cicero]

I’ve never ever seen Mourinho so rattled by a player. 

[Stan]

New contract for Mason Greenwood. 

[Cicero]

Trust the process. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Seems like a decent player for his age. Not a Manc though, sad that Yorkshire still seems unable to hold onto its own talents.

Edited October 18, 2019 by The Artful Dodger