Germany Shooting - At Least 9 Dead in Xenophobic Attack

[Michael 518]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51567971

Two shootings in Hanau, Germany and eight people dead. Very tragic and it's not yet clear what the reasons for the shootings are.

[McAzeem 1,446]

So when is this guys manifesto coming out ?

[Michael 518]

1 hour ago, Azeem said:

So when is this guys manifesto coming out ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51567971

I don't know, it's probably the same manifesto as Anders Breiviks.

This animal not only went on a shooting spree targeting Turks, but it also seems like he killed his own mother, as well as himself.

Such a mindless, racist and bigoted act by this coward. He was probably one of these people who blamed the Jews for everything bad that happens.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Michael

[Eco 2,116]

So is the thought that he was targeting Turks because of the district the shooting took place? 

[Michael 518]

3 minutes ago, Eco said:

So is the thought that he was targeting Turks because of the district the shooting took place? 

Yes, I believe so. Merkel has come out herself and said that this was a racially motivated attack.

The places he targeted were Shisha bars, frequented by Turks.

[Eco 2,116]

Just now, Michael said:

Yes, I believe so. Merkel has come out herself and said that this was a racially motivated attack.

The places he targeted were Shisha bars, frequented by Turks.

Yeah - I was curious how they came to that conclusion, and so I supposed that was it. 

Are there a lot of Turks in Germany? 

[Michael 518]

Just now, Eco said:

Yeah - I was curious how they came to that conclusion, and so I supposed that was it. 

Are there a lot of Turks in Germany? 

Yes mate, there are a hell of a lot of Turks in Germany.

[Eco 2,116]

Just now, Michael said:

Yes mate, there are a hell of a lot of Turks in Germany.

Had no idea, it's been years since I visited Germany. 

[Michael 518]

6 minutes ago, Eco said:

Had no idea, it's been years since I visited Germany. 

It's estimated that Turks make up 5% of Germany's overall population. The Turks live in most of the big cities. I know that when I went to Berlin, there were many there, well certainly in a couple of the districts that I visited.

The Turks have been there for years, they mainly came over to Germany as guest workers or "Gastarbeiter" in the 50's.

[Batard 1,965]

6 minutes ago, Eco said:

Had no idea, it's been years since I visited Germany. 

Ozil, Can, Gundogan to name but three are all of Turkish decent. 

[True Blue 850]

Since this was a racist attack on Turks it will be soon forgotten.

[McAzeem 1,446]

1 hour ago, Eco said:

Yeah - I was curious how they came to that conclusion, and so I supposed that was it. 

Are there a lot of Turks in Germany? 

Germany was given financial aid under a US program after the WW under this program Germany asked US to send workers from partner countries mainly Pakistan but since the quantity asked was too much and a lot of Pakistanis were already immigrating to UK Turks were sent instead, we gave financial aid to Germany though

[Tommy 4,951]

Terrible what's happening in this country. It seems that it's back in fashion to be openly "right-wing/Nazi" again. The AfD and their political agitation play a big part in this and are to blame for what happened last night. 

 

[6666 851]

3 hours ago, Tommy said:

Terrible what's happening in this country. It seems that it's back in fashion to be openly "right-wing/Nazi" again. The AfD and their political agitation play a big part in this and are to blame for what happened last night.

I think it's a Europe wide issue unfortunately.

[nudge 8,385]

The shooter was well and truly fucked up in the head. In addition to having extreme racist/xenophobic/eugenicist beliefs he was also apparently some sort of an incel who blamed some unspecified mysterious secret service for not having ever been with a woman; the mysterious secret service which, according to him, has the ability to read people's minds and manipulate them. This secret service has been apparently watching and mind-controlling him for his entire life; and he had even filed three law suits against "illegal surveillance" at different police stations and also the Bundesverfassungsgericht in Karlsruhe in the past. Also apparently various prominent persons such as Trump or - I kid you not - Jürgen Klopp had been stealing his ideas; just like Hollywood studios that he accused of stealing his movie/tv shows ideas (namely Vikings and Prison Break) too. Trump’s slogan “America first” was apparently also stolen from his thoughts and in his opinion, he played a large part in the strategy and tactical approach of the United States for combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. He also claimed to have had conversations with invisible people in his student housing in the past. His ramblings also contain numerous allusions to other conspiracy theories, with a section dedicated to the supposed devil worship and secret societies purportedly abusing and killing small children and controlling the US.

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/hanau-schuesse-taeter-100.html

https://kurier.at/politik/ausland/die-krude-welt-des-tobias-r-taeter-von-hanau-hasste-auslaender-und-frauen/400759740

https://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/Taeter-fuehlte-sich-vom-Geheimdienst-ueberwacht-13818548

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1230402281666949123.html (this one's in English)

[Dr. Gonzo 4,515]

4 hours ago, True Blue said:

Since this was a racist attack on Turks it will be soon forgotten.

Sad, but probably true.

4 hours ago, Tommy said:

Terrible what's happening in this country. It seems that it's back in fashion to be openly "right-wing/Nazi" again. The AfD and their political agitation play a big part in this and are to blame for what happened last night. 

 

The normalisation of the far right and proto-fascism (if not outright fascism) is genuinely one of the most terrifying things about this era we live in. Seems like it's happening all over the west - almost like it's been too long since the 40s and memories have faded quickly. Pretty sad considering we live in a time where there's more access to information at everyone's fingertips - there's no excuse to be forgetting history from 80 odd years ago. Yet that's where I fear we are.

15 minutes ago, nudge said:

The shooter was well and truly fucked up in the head. In addition to having extreme racist/xenophobic/eugenicist beliefs he was also apparently some sort of an incel who blamed some unspecified mysterious secret service for not having ever been with a woman; the mysterious secret service which, according to him, has the ability to read people's minds and manipulate them. This secret service has been apparently watching and mind-controlling him for his entire life; and he had even filed three law suits against "illegal surveillance" at different police stations and also the Bundesverfassungsgericht in Karlsruhe in the past. Also apparently various prominent persons such as Trump or - I kid you not - Jürgen Klopp had been stealing his ideas; just like Hollywood studios that he accused of stealing his movie/tv shows ideas (namely Vikings and Prison Break) too. Trump’s slogan “America first” was apparently also stolen from his thoughts and in his opinion, he played a large part in the strategy and tactical approach of the United States for combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. He also claimed to have had conversations with invisible people in his student housing in the past. His ramblings also contain numerous allusions to other conspiracy theories, with a section dedicated to the supposed devil worship and secret societies purportedly abusing and killing small children and controlling the US.

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/hanau-schuesse-taeter-100.html

https://kurier.at/politik/ausland/die-krude-welt-des-tobias-r-taeter-von-hanau-hasste-auslaender-und-frauen/400759740

https://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/Taeter-fuehlte-sich-vom-Geheimdienst-ueberwacht-13818548

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1230402281666949123.html (this one's in English)

I mean he was clearly fucked in the head because he decided to go and shoot people. But lol @ the Klopp stuff. Also the "America first" slogan was stolen by Trump... but he stole it from William Randolph Hearst & these fuckers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee - this guy was just a delusional fascist.

That part about conspiracy theories about secret societies & delusional thoughts does have me worry a bit about a certain member on here that decided to stop posting on here after she was criticised for insisting we were all stupid for not going along with her insane views.

[nudge 8,385]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I mean he was clearly fucked in the head because he decided to go and shoot people. But lol @ the Klopp stuff. Also the "America first" slogan was stolen by Trump... but he stole it from William Randolph Hearst & these fuckers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee - this guy was just a delusional fascist.

That part about conspiracy theories about secret societies & delusional thoughts does have me worry a bit about a certain member on here that decided to stop posting on here after she was criticised for insisting we were all stupid for not going along with her insane views.

Oh for sure; but all the additional weird info coming out clearly indicates a significant ongoing mental illness which should probably have been uncovered and addressed years ago - potentially meaning that the attack could have been prevented if mental healthcare system was more efficient. A few years ago I was unfortunate enough to meet someone who was paranoid schizophrenic and was living abroad while on state benefits at that time (with no control over him taking meds or potential danger to society assessed); his ramblings back then sounded quite similar to what I've just read about this psycho (including the paranoid and the racist stuff). Had to check his photo and name as the similarities were uncanny. 

[Dr. Gonzo 4,515]

1 minute ago, nudge said:

Oh for sure; but all the additional weird info coming out clearly indicates a significant ongoing mental illness which should probably have been uncovered and addressed years ago - potentially meaning that the attack could have been prevented if mental healthcare system was more efficient. A few years ago I was unfortunate enough to meet someone who was paranoid schizophrenic and was living abroad while on state benefits at that time (with no control over him taking meds or potential danger to society assessed); his ramblings back then sounded quite similar to what I've just read about this psycho (including the paranoid and the racist stuff). Had to check his photo and name as the similarities were uncanny. 

Oh shit. Was it the same person? 

Where I'm at now, we've got a pretty big issue with our homeless population - many of whom are schizophrenics that have either no family left or for whatever reason have been abandoned and are living on the streets to fend for themselves... and many of them have turned to using meth to self-medicate their paranoid schizophrenia. And I don't know if you've heard of "meth psychosis" but it's when you start having hallucinations and delusions from being up too many hours a row on any sort of stimulant like meth. As you can imagine, it's not the most effective way for them to medicate and it can make things dangerous for them and the people around them.

Makes me wonder how many people could be helped worldwide if the general public cared more about dealing with peoples' mental health issues. Seems like this guy could have had treatment and we'd have 8 people still living their lives.

[nudge 8,385]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Oh shit. Was it the same person? 

Where I'm at now, we've got a pretty big issue with our homeless population - many of whom are schizophrenics that have either no family left or for whatever reason have been abandoned and are living on the streets to fend for themselves... and many of them have turned to using meth to self-medicate their paranoid schizophrenia. And I don't know if you've heard of "meth psychosis" but it's when you start having hallucinations and delusions from being up too many hours a row on any sort of stimulant like meth. As you can imagine, it's not the most effective way for them to medicate and it can make things dangerous for them and the people around them.

Makes me wonder how many people could be helped worldwide if the general public cared more about dealing with peoples' mental health issues. Seems like this guy could have had treatment and we'd have 8 people still living their lives.

Haha, no. The one I've met is probably still bumming for beers somewhere in Asia.

Yeah, I've heard of meth psychosis and also saw it in action a few times. Scares the crap out of me. I think we even talked about it in the drugs thread a while ago. Horrible stuff; and imagine someone who's already seriously mentally ill and should be taking meds regularly to keep it under control but self-medicates with methamphetamines instead... Completely batshit crazy and unpredictable. 

[Dr. Gonzo 4,515]

Just now, nudge said:

Yeah, I've heard of meth psychosis and also saw it in action a few times. Scares the crap out of me. I think we even talked about it in the drugs thread a while ago. Horrible stuff; and imagine someone who's already seriously mentally ill and should be taking meds regularly to keep it under control but self-medicates with methamphetamines instead... Completely batshit crazy and unpredictable. 

I was on a trolley here where a methhead stabbed someone in the neck after yelling at a person that wasn't there - turned out that person was someone who'd self medicated their paranoid schizophrenia. I was in another carriage on the trolley when it happened, so I didn't see it happen or anything - but it did make the local news that night and that's when I learned about wtf happened.

It's a bit off topic, but I think it does show the danger of leaving people with mental illness to their own devices when they've got the capability of doing some very fucked up shit if they're not given the proper treatment. They don't even need to be loaded up on meth to be dangerous, as this shooter here shows.

I do think the rise in far right extremist rhetoric becoming normal in politics is leading to mental people being influenced negatively though.

[McAzeem 1,446]

He called for the complete elimination of Pakistan, Morocco, Tunisia, Iran, India, Egypt and the Philippines in his manifesto, honestly saying i can see where he is coming from 

[Dr. Gonzo 4,515]

18 minutes ago, Azeem said:

He called for the complete elimination of Pakistan, Morocco, Tunisia, Iran, India, Egypt and the Philippines in his manifesto, honestly saying i can see where he is coming from 

Why the Philippines? I know there's Muslims there... but it's like 80% Catholic.

[Inverted 1,313]

It's mad that some people insist that this new phenomenon isn't a huge structural issue, and try to contrast with the Rote Armee Fraktion.

The RAF didn't have its own party in the Bundestag. The RAF didn't have the backing of a large chunk of the police and the military. And yet RAF were still seen as an urgent national threat and ruthlessly hunted down. 

Why is there not a similar reaction now?

[Dr. Gonzo 4,515]

7 minutes ago, Inverted said:

It's mad that some people insist that this new phenomenon isn't a huge structural issue, and try to contrast with the Rote Armee Fraktion.

The RAF didn't have its own party in the Bundestag. The RAF didn't have the backing of a large chunk of the police and the military. And yet RAF were still seen as an urgent national threat and ruthlessly hunted down. 

Why is there not a similar reaction now?

Tbf RAF was an actual organisation that committed violent terrorism. Whereas from what we know about this guy, he appears to be someone mental that's just been pushed into believing stupid things by far-right politicians. Compare that to the Red Army Faction (I'm just going to use their English name)… who were formed partially because of young people in West Germany angry that people who held government positions while the Nazis were in power ended up having government positions now that the Nazis weren't in power.

They planned assassination attempts and had important politically important people as their targets - so the government had extra incentive to hunt them down, self-preservation is a powerful motivator.

Which isn't to say there aren't organised far right terroristic groups out there - because there certainly are. But it's not really the most apt comparison for yesterday's shooting, which just seems to be a mental person inspired by dangerous rhetoric.

[Rucksackfranzose 1,508]

@Inverted, because the RAF targeted business bosses, while the right-wing terrorists always targeted (see Oktoberfest-Anschlag) and still target a group of persons that is seen as dispensable in the eyes of the powers which control the country.

[Inverted 1,313]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbf RAF was an actual organisation that committed violent terrorism. Whereas from what we know about this guy, he appears to be someone mental that's just been pushed into believing stupid things by far-right politicians. Compare that to the Red Army Faction (I'm just going to use their English name)… who were formed partially because of young people in West Germany angry that people who held government positions while the Nazis were in power ended up having government positions now that the Nazis weren't in power.

They planned assassination attempts and had important politically important people as their targets - so the government had extra incentive to hunt them down, self-preservation is a powerful motivator.

Which isn't to say there aren't organised far right terroristic groups out there - because there certainly are. But it's not really the most apt comparison for yesterday's shooting, which just seems to be a mental person inspired by dangerous rhetoric.

But most RAF members scarcely knew more than a few other operatives. The connections were extremely slim and fragile, and generally were only uncovered because of intensive investigation.

The difference between kindred spirits and conspirators is often only a matter of how hard you are willing to look. This guy is potentially weird enough to have been a true lone wolf, but in the modern world you can have human connections without ever physically associating with other people.

[Dr. Gonzo 4,515]

Just now, Inverted said:

But most RAF members scarcely knew more than a few other operatives. The connections were extremely slim and fragile, and generally were only uncovered because of intensive investigation.

The difference between kindred spirits and conspirators is often only a matter of how hard you are willing to look. This guy is potentially weird enough to have been a true lone wolf, but in the modern world you can have human connections without ever physically associating with other people.

I mean, I fully assume that this guy was radicalised online by a person or group of people who's life mission is to take young European males who are feeling discontent with their lives & the world... and take that discontent and anger and have it all directed at minority groups, and have all of their enthusiasm directed towards promoting fascism in the west.

And I think throughout the western world (and probably beyond), the far reaches of the internet where shit like this is going on - radicalisation and indoctrination - really need to be investigated and stamped out.

[Rucksackfranzose 1,508]

10 minutes ago, Inverted said:

10 minutes ago, Inverted said:

But most RAF members scarcely knew more than a few other operatives. The connections were extremely slim and fragile, and generally were only uncovered because of intensive investigation.

The difference between kindred spirits and conspirators is often only a matter of how hard you are willing to look. This guy is potentially weird enough to have been a true lone wolf, but in the modern world you can have human connections without ever physically associating with other people.

 

That's a risk you can only reduce with a civilian surveillance that borders to Orwell's 1984, to be fair. By the way German police imprisoned a group of 8 persons for trying to form a right-wing terrorist group just three days ago, so it's not fair to say they wouldn't investigate in this direction; it was you who mentioned RAF, don't forget this group ended their activity in the nineties, so it existed more than 20 years, although they had never more than 25 members and were hunted fiercely.

It's not like the government were too effective in their battle against them. Same can be said about IRA, ETA, Action directe and Brigardi Rossi. So that's not just a problem of Germany.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Rucksackfranzose

[Tommy 4,951]

Still shocking to see articles about this on facebook, and some people react with a laugh emoji. How fucking full of hate and deprived of empathy can you be? 

[Michael 518]

7 hours ago, nudge said:

The shooter was well and truly fucked up in the head. In addition to having extreme racist/xenophobic/eugenicist beliefs he was also apparently some sort of an incel who blamed some unspecified mysterious secret service for not having ever been with a woman; the mysterious secret service which, according to him, has the ability to read people's minds and manipulate them. This secret service has been apparently watching and mind-controlling him for his entire life; and he had even filed three law suits against "illegal surveillance" at different police stations and also the Bundesverfassungsgericht in Karlsruhe in the past. Also apparently various prominent persons such as Trump or - I kid you not - Jürgen Klopp had been stealing his ideas; just like Hollywood studios that he accused of stealing his movie/tv shows ideas (namely Vikings and Prison Break) too. Trump’s slogan “America first” was apparently also stolen from his thoughts and in his opinion, he played a large part in the strategy and tactical approach of the United States for combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. He also claimed to have had conversations with invisible people in his student housing in the past. His ramblings also contain numerous allusions to other conspiracy theories, with a section dedicated to the supposed devil worship and secret societies purportedly abusing and killing small children and controlling the US.

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/hanau-schuesse-taeter-100.html

https://kurier.at/politik/ausland/die-krude-welt-des-tobias-r-taeter-von-hanau-hasste-auslaender-und-frauen/400759740

https://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/Taeter-fuehlte-sich-vom-Geheimdienst-ueberwacht-13818548

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1230402281666949123.html (this one's in English)

You couldn't make that shit up! What a fruitcake as well as a monster that scumbag was!