Explosion at Manchester MEN Arena

[Stan]

2 hours ago, Cannabis said:

He's a complete weapon. The IRA loving ballbag should be kept as far away from power as possible.

rather him than the evil witch in charge now

[Happy Blue]

• Operation to tackle terror 'network' sees new arrest
• Fresh raids on Manchester barbershop and takeaway
• Police reveal eight men as young as 18 held in custody
• Isil calls on followers to rise up in 'war' on infidels in West
• Officers fear bomber could have distributed other devices

 

Counter-terror police investigating the Manchester Arena bombing have carried out fresh raids today, as security services brace for more attacks during the Muslim holy month of Ramadanbeginning tomorrow.

Islamic State has called on its followers to rise up in an “all-out war” on "infidels” in the West. Saturday marks the start of a 30-day period of fasting and reflection in the Islamic world, which has in recent years seen a large increase in terror attacks.

As detectives revealed the youngest man in custody over the Manchester attack is 18, early-hours searches were on Friday launched at a Manchester barbershop and a takeaway on Merseyside.

Officers who earlier raided terrorist Salman Abedi's home discovered a working bomb factory with a huge stash of explosive chemicals and other components.

It comes amid fears the attacker might have built a second device that is now in the hands of fellow jihadists.

 

Security sources now believe he assembled the bomb himself after learning his trade in Libya. But the amount of material in his home has led to fears that he could have built more than one device and and distributed them to other British-based extremists.

A security source told the Telegraph: "The worry is there was enough to build two or three bombs and we can't rule that out."

Police today revealed that the eight men in custody "on suspicion of offences contrary to the Terrorism Act" in connection with Monday's atrocity, which killed 22 people - including seven children - are aged between 18 and 38.

Meanwhile, with the General Election campaign resuming, Jeremy Corbyn’s suggestion that Britain’s involvement in military action abroad is linked to the Manchester attack has been condemned as “twisted reasoning” by the Security Minister.

British police have resumed "working closely" with US authorities on the probe after a tense showdown between the allies over leaked intelligence.

After Theresa May warned the transatlantic row risked hampering the "special relationship" between the UK and America, US Secretary of State is making his first official trip to Britain today.

With Britain on critical alert, stay with us for the latest updates today amid the huge operation to dismantle a suspected "network" linked to Abedi.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/manchester-arena-bombing-salman-abedi-latest-updates/

[The Artful Dodger]

Police swarming all over the Albert dock in the sun, must be sweating buckets.

[Stan]

I don't want to get on the back of the our security forces because they do a huge, largely successful job in preventing attacks pretty much every day. 

But sometimes the rhetoric after a tragic attack like this is 'Muslims should do more'. It does beg the question what work or efforts went in to tracking down the suspects after reports were made.

 

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

I don't want to get on the back of the our security forces because they do a huge, largely successful job in preventing attacks pretty much every day. 

But sometimes the rhetoric after a tragic attack like this is 'Muslims should do more'. It does beg the question what work or efforts went in to tracking down the suspects after reports were made.

 

 

And we need to make it more public that Muslims are doing more than what's reported. By doing so that makes this "normal people vs nutters" instead of having religious connotations (which it obviously does) but we don't want our young people growing up with any opportunity to see these attacks as Muslims vs Christians.

[Honey Honey]

Torygraph quick to get a response to Corbyn's speech out as John McDonnell is pictured holding up a list of socialist demands for the MI5 and armed police units to be disbanded.

 

[Pig on the Wing]

On 2017-5-24 at 11:59 PM, Panflute said:

Crimea is and has always has been Russian. Kiev gangsters can fucking die of pozzed Western super-AIDS.

Words can't describe how much I disagree with you, but this isn't the thread. Another time. 

[Fairy In Boots]

13 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Corbyn expected to give a speech using the dumb logic that if we just do nothing abroad there wont be anymore attacks on our soil. 

As I've always said before it's exacerbated a pre-existing problem not created one. Corbyn's literally like the FAG guild in team America, it sounds great and that but in reality you get fucked. The blokes the political equivalent of Alan Henning wanting to make friends with a death cult 

12 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

If you listen to what he says, he's absolutely spot on.

Anyone voting for May over Corbyn to 'keep us safe' is as thick as pigshit, as home sec she relaxed terrorism restriction orders and has slashed the police.

What about Corbyn lacky Shami chakribatti who white washed Labour's Anti Semite problem for a peerage, she'd spent most of her time since the invasion of Iraq ensuring human rites laws fouled up police investigators into Terrorism whilst accepting donations to boards she chaired from Gaddafi's son. Corbyn and co are just as bent, 

11 hours ago, 6666 said:

Mentioning that being involved in war abroad can have consequences at home is probably the sanest thing a politician can say. If people actually by into an argument of "They hate us because we have freedom" argument then you really need your head checked. I understand why most politicians won't say that it has something to do with wars abroad as they want to absolve themselves from any responsibility but it should be extremely see through to people with a working brain.

You really need to have a look at Islamic terrorism in places like Thailand, India, Philippines etc absolutely nothing to do with wars in the Middle East yet it's happening there. Islamic terrorism has been happening in places like Spain, Greece, Denmark in the 80's what's that in retaliation for Eurovision? Fundamentalism in Islam has been going since word go. I think half the apologist attitudes in this thread are surely white guilt. 

 

With regards to the Muslim community can do more. It's pointless, we as a state need to start closing and demolishing radical mosques, detaining in isolation radical clerics, breaking up Islamic enclaves, banning burka and hijab's. I'd also as a blanket rule stop all arranged marriages from abroad, we can't stop the influx this is causing. 

[Stan]

what good is banning burka's and hijabs gonna do  ? 

[Panflute]

41 minutes ago, StefBWFC said:

Words can't describe how much I disagree with you, but this isn't the thread. Another time. 

I was drunk.

[Fairy In Boots]

30 minutes ago, Stan said:

what good is banning burka's and hijabs gonna do  ? 

Help integrate, western languages are very expressive and rely on visible emotions via facial expressions. We have a problem where large groups of that community don't feel British and part of that is they don't interact with British people. If you look at your folks wave of immigration how many Muslims from that time wear headscarves? It was a liberating thing for a lot of women. They're sleep walking into submission to men again it's depressing 

[6666]

34 minutes ago, Stan said:

what good is banning burka's and hijabs gonna do  ? 

It'd make him feel less insecure. Should put them all in Aston Villa tops.

[Stan]

Just now, Fairy In Boots said:

Help integrate, western languages are very expressive and rely on visible emotions via facial expressions. We have a problem where large groups of that community don't feel British and part of that is they don't interact with British people. If you look at your folks wave of immigration how many Muslims from that time wear headscarves? It was a liberating thing for a lot of women. They're sleep walking into submission to men again it's depressing 

how do you expect them to integrate when they're tarnished with the same brush as the ISIS cunts? 

They get berated and verbally abused, spat at, laughed at, life made hell for them. And what have they done wrong? That's not even those wearing burkas/hijabs either. That's just normal innocent people trying to live their life. If you had that life, would you 'integrate' with the ones that do that to you?

[Stan]

Just now, Cannabis said:

What good does banning bikini's and topless sunbathing in Arab countries? We shouldn't have to bow down to their beliefs seeing as we are not a Muslim country plus wearing a burkha is a security risk, just think who could be underneath the veil. I don't really care about whether on not it causes offence either, it's precisely this country being afraid to cause offence that has led to this mess. 

don't know mate but I don't agree with that either. 

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Stan said:

how do you expect them to integrate when they're tarnished with the same brush as the ISIS cunts? 

They get berated and verbally abused, spat at, laughed at, life made hell for them. And what have they done wrong? That's not even those wearing burkas/hijabs either. That's just normal innocent people trying to live their life. If you had that life, would you 'integrate' with the ones that do that to you?

I know this is not what you were saying but the minority of Westerners that are xenophobic racists don't represent Western society as a whole and shouldn't prevent Muslims from integrating even if they make it difficult, just like ISIS don't represent the Muslim community itself and make them all terrorists. Tarring people with the same brush can work both ways. 

[Stan]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

I know this is not what you were saying but the minority of Westerners that are xenophobic racists don't represent Western society as a whole and shouldn't prevent Muslims from integrating even if they make it difficult, just like ISIS don't represent the Muslim community itself and make them all terrorists. Tarring people with the same brush can work both ways. 

true. fair point. 

[Inverted]

As much as I agree that anti-immigrant and chauvinistic reactions are exactly what terrorists want to provoke, I also hate the disgusting wankfests over Islam that occur after any attack like this. It's completely OTT.

It's an Abrahamic religion. Leftists really shouldn't be speaking in support of it, nor should anyone who values social progress and individual conscience. Just because you don't believe Muslims are terrorists, and you support their right to their religion,  doesn't mean you should start sucking off a belief system that very actively promotes homophobia and misogyny. 

No religion is beautiful, or peaceful. The best you can hope for is that they exist in bastardised, relatively innocuous forms that are as detached as possible from the actual teachings of their scriptures. And just like "Christians" in this country, that is how most "Muslims" treat their religion. It's a label that makes them feel like a moral person and gives them some kind of added cultural identification, but they don't actually believe women are property, or want gays and apostates to die. 

[Danny]

7 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

What good does banning bikini's and topless sunbathing in Arab countries? We shouldn't have to bow down to their beliefs seeing as we are not a Muslim country plus wearing a burkha is a security risk, just think who could be underneath the veil. I don't really care about whether on not it causes offence either, it's precisely this country being afraid to cause offence that has led to this mess. 

You're aware we don't bow down to their beliefs when allowing them to wear a Burka? We "bow down" to our own beliefs. Our own law, British law that allows people the freedom to believe in whatever god they want to and to express that belief however so they choose as long as it doesn't break the law. And women in this country wanting to wear the Burka is not making anyone bow down to anything, it's them protecting their rights to wear religious garment and so they should. Women wanting to wear a Burka is by no means in any way comparable to specific countries banning a bikini, that's straight of the The Sun, as well as the "security threat" line.

There is no "their beliefs", Islam IS British whether you like it or not, it's apart of this country as so many Brits are Muslims, it was apart of this country when so many Muslims fought during the World Wars. If Islam was that much of a problem then you'd have every British Muslim rising up, but you don't, because it's not, ISIS aren't a religious movement they're a political movement with an agenda who feed on insecure and mentally ill people and use the extreme warping of a religion to offer these people a "home" and push them towards dangerous and murderous acts.

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

If religion didn't exist the world would be a much better place.

I've always thought this and still do to an extent but I can't convince myself to truly believe that some people wouldn't always find an excuse to commit heinous crimes like this even in a world without different religions.

[Danny]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

I've always thought this and still do to an extent but I can't convince myself to truly believe that some people wouldn't always find an excuse to commit heinous crimes like this even in a world without different religions.

It's just a human construct to control people, the only reason it's not used heavily in the West anymore is because control of the masses has long advanced from religious scripture largely due to the quality of life we have now. Who needs religion to control you when you've got a system of debt.

[Fairy In Boots]

 

42 minutes ago, 6666 said:

It'd make him feel less insecure. Should put them all in Aston Villa tops.

im glad you take it seriously, it seems to be a theme with you turn up in the aftermath of an atrocity and deflect blame from the Muslim community. 

41 minutes ago, Stan said:

how do you expect them to integrate when they're tarnished with the same brush as the ISIS cunts? 

They get berated and verbally abused, spat at, laughed at, life made hell for them. And what have they done wrong? That's not even those wearing burkas/hijabs either. That's just normal innocent people trying to live their life. If you had that life, would you 'integrate' with the ones that do that to you?

Oh you're all emotional not talking sense mate, where's all this abuse coming from then? Most white people are petrified to say anything nowadays especially in a working environment. I'd say a lot of people avoid burka clad women socially because they're unnerved by not being able to see their faces. It's the same as if you saw someone in a balaclava would you strike up a convo? It's isolating and it's done by chauvinistic men within that community to keep them isolated. Do you know you can buy baby burkas now? I drive past schools and the playgrounds are full of little girls in hijabs, what sort of society are we building here? This victimhood rhetoric serves only to ensure we leave them to it in their communities which we've done Post 9/11 and it's got us 15,000 terror suspects and daily arrests. 

Also talking about victimhood and coming from the multicultural success story that is Birmingham (if you believe that you're an idiot) I was talking to a teacher I know the other day, he was white in a state school 92% Muslim population and he told me the white kids pretty much got beat up daily & white girls are called slags who often are targets for grooming gangs down the line. I remember speaking to a lad who'd gone to school and had a similar ordeal having to fight all the time because he was a "white fuck". My school was the other way round and I don't remember a single incident like that. I interact with Muslims daily and I encounter more racism from Muslims towards others than any other. I went to a Sikh restaurant last week and my uber was a Muslim, he spent the Drive telling me I was off to eat rat from dirty Sikhs and the food would be shit as obviously non halal.  It wasn't incidentally it was the new Soho Tavern in Soho Handsworth about a mile from the Baggies ground and it was very good, go next season but get a taxi don't walk that area at night. 

[Inverted]

My view on religion is this:  It's not the lack of a god that permits any level of human depravity. Rather, its the opposite: it's the ability to believe in divine justification. 

I also agree with I think Christopher Hitchens (I know, a very cliched anti-religion writer to quote) who said: a good person will always do good things. It takes religion to make them do evil things. 

[Honey Honey]

Even without religion people require a doctrine to live by and implementing that doctrine can become violent in unstable enviornments. Hence atheists using communism and national socialism are the biggest mass murderers in the last century and many have also been slaughtered in the name of liberalism.

 

[Burning Gold]

13 hours ago, 6666 said:

Mentioning that being involved in war abroad can have consequences at home is probably the sanest thing a politician can say. If people actually by into an argument of "They hate us because we have freedom" argument then you really need your head checked. I understand why most politicians won't say that it has something to do with wars abroad as they want to absolve themselves from any responsibility but it should be extremely see through to people with a working brain.

They do though, and they say so over and over again. Give this a read:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/why-isis-hate-you-reasons-8533563?service=responsive

(I know the Mirror isn't a paragon of good journalism, but they're all quotes from ISIS's own magazine.)

9 minutes ago, Inverted said:

My view on religion is this:  It's not the lack of a god that permits any level of human depravity. Rather, its the opposite: it's the ability to believe in divine justification. 

I also agree with I think Christopher Hitchens (I know, a very cliched anti-religion writer to quote) who said: a good person will always do good things. It takes religion to make them do evil things. 

I think you're thinking of physicist Steven Weinberg. The exact quote is "With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

[Inverted]

22 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Even without religion people require a doctrine to live by and implementing that doctrine can become violent in unstable enviornments. Hence atheists using communism and national socialism are the biggest mass murderers in the last century and many have also been slaughtered in the name of liberalism.

 

True, sometimes the demands of totalitarianism prompt the development of kinds of surrogate religions. 

I think the National Socialist example is slightly flawed since most Germans were still religious, even those involved in the planning and execution of the crimes of the regime. However, with Stalinism for example you could definitely see how the quasi-deification of the leader was used as a substitute form of authority to fill the void left by the public discrediting of the church. 

Rather than the Tsar drawing all-stifling legitimacy from the Orthodox Church, you had Stalin drawing unquestionable authority from his self-proclaimed embodiment as the legitimate guardian of Lenin's the legacy, the great servant of The People, etc . I don't know if its true that humans necessarily seek total, authoritarian moral subjugation, but we are surely susceptible to it, and if there is no such ideology is to be found, then would-be dictators will develop new ones. The Kim regime in North Korea, and Juche, is definitely the most egregious example of an "atheist" religion. They in theory discard the concept of a god, but instead they maintain ideological control by creating a new one - Kim Il-Sung. Is it still atheism, if they're just ascribing superhuman abilities, immaculate conception, and a messianic mission to someone else than those revered in the major religions? Once Kim Jong-Un dies, they'll even have a holy Trinity .

@Burning Gold : Cheers for the correction.

 

Edit: another thing that I think shows the bigger efforts under Stalinism to "religify" the regime is the way they dealt with "traitors". The Nazis were happy to just quietly bump them off like the Night of the Long Knives, or at most quickly convict them in the Volksgerichthof and shout over their objections.

The Soviets in Stalin's time, however, were insanely insistent on getting confessions. They wanted the condemned to embrace the righteousness of their punishment, and show repentance and love for Stalin. It was almost like the Moscow show trials were like a grotesque confessional for the nation. 

Don't know if these are just late night ramblings after a day of studying, but its a curious difference imo.