Not Prime Barcelona 3-2 Liverpool - Sunday 7th November, 2021

[Lucas]

I was really impressed with how quiet West Ham kept Salah. Probably the first time I've watched Liverpool this season where he wasn't in the game at all, which is some going to be fair.

West Ham deserved it. They matched Liverpool all over the park for energy, its just that when Liverpool aren't quite on it going forward, they sometimes get away with it if the other team doesn't take advantage. The difference was, West Ham took their chances and made Liverpool pay.

It's probably a good kick up the ass Liverpool needed tbh. It was all going too sweet for them after the Man U win and the Brighton and West Ham games have just taken them down a peg. They had a warning last week.

Sometimes you need that to get going again.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Rational liverpool fans "we've needed a midfielder for a while and this game is a symptom of that problem"

Madlad "Nah fuck off you knee jerk little fucks"

Rational liverpool fans "It's not knee jerk, the we've been discussing the boards lack of investment recently"

Madlad "same old shit"

Rational liverpool fans "Do you have anything constructive to add to this discussion? What is your antithesis? 


Madlad "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

[Spike]

32 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Rational liverpool fans "we've needed a midfielder for a while and this game is a symptom of that problem"

Madlad "Nah fuck off you knee jerk little fucks"

Rational liverpool fans "It's not knee jerk, the we've been discussing the boards lack of investment recently"

Madlad "same old shit"

Rational liverpool fans "Do you have anything constructive to add to this discussion? What is your antithesis? 


Madlad "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

Same old same old

[MUFC]

3 hours ago, Rick said:

You’re blind defence of them is worse than us who constantly question lack of investment. 
 

You always act like these reactions are knee jerk. Look back at the lead up to this season, and you will see many of us saying we needed another midfielder. When you have injury prone players like Keita & Ox, along with an aging Milner, it’s not out of line to want re-enforcements. 
 

Defending the owners is a disgrace after what they’ve tried to do. They hit the jackpot with Klopp and his success is IN SPITE of them and their lack of investment in the first team. We criticise them, not Klopp or the coaching staff. Get that much right. 

Fred is available. 

[LFCMike]

18 hours ago, Rick said:

You’re blind defence of them is worse than us who constantly question lack of investment. 
 

You always act like these reactions are knee jerk. Look back at the lead up to this season, and you will see many of us saying we needed another midfielder. When you have injury prone players like Keita & Ox, along with an aging Milner, it’s not out of line to want re-enforcements. 
 

Defending the owners is a disgrace after what they’ve tried to do. They hit the jackpot with Klopp and his success is IN SPITE of them and their lack of investment in the first team. We criticise them, not Klopp or the coaching staff. Get that much right. 

I think you need to consider that Klopp and his staff may just have been happy with his squad after sorting the centre back issue? Liverpool went into the season with 8 players who could play in central midfield, 9 if you want to include Minamino who has been used there before. You and others are shitting yourselves that a complete freak will happen again. There's no doubt that Liverpool carry a couple of injury prone midfielders but you can't just go out and sign a tenth in case 8 get injured all at the same time!

I've already said that I didn't see much of the game yesterday but two of our first choice started and another came off the bench so seems a bit weird to be complaining about the options in midfield to be honest. 

[Cicero]

28 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I think you need to consider that Klopp and his staff may just have been happy with his squad after sorting the centre back issue?

This. 

Klopp publicly stated he is happy with the team and made no implication or hint he wanted additions. 

[Rick]

21 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I think you need to consider that Klopp and his staff may just have been happy with his squad after sorting the centre back issue? Liverpool went into the season with 8 players who could play in central midfield, 9 if you want to include Minamino who has been used there before. You and others are shitting yourselves that a complete freak will happen again. There's no doubt that Liverpool carry a couple of injury prone midfielders but you can't just go out and sign a tenth in case 8 get injured all at the same time!

I've already said that I didn't see much of the game yesterday but two of our first choice started and another came off the bench so seems a bit weird to be complaining about the options in midfield to be honest. 

I’m not wanting to stockpile these players. I’ve wanted Ox & Keita replaced for a year now. Milner is near retirement, Elliot is a kid & Jones is still young himself and hasn’t found a level of consistency. Fabinho, Henderson & Thiago the only three you could say have the quality that can match our rivals. That is not enough to rely on for a 50 odd game season. 

I don’t believe for a second that Klopp is entirely happy with this squad. He would not have made the comment’s he did about having to play a lot of our first 11 in the final two CL group games if he believe there was enough on the bench to come in and be reliable enough to get results. It’s a strange comment to make if you’re not trying to make some sort of point to the club. 
 

[LFCMike]

3 minutes ago, Rick said:

I’m not wanting to stockpile these players. I’ve wanted Ox & Keita replaced for a year now. Milner is near retirement, Elliot is a kid & Jones is still young himself and hasn’t found a level of consistency. Fabinho, Henderson & Thiago the only three you could say have the quality that can match our rivals. That is not enough to rely on for a 50 odd game season. 

I don’t believe for a second that Klopp is entirely happy with this squad. He would not have made the comment’s he did about having to play a lot of our first 11 in the final two CL group games if he believe there was enough on the bench to come in and be reliable enough to get results. It’s a strange comment to make if you’re not trying to make some sort of point to the club. 
 

That's fine if you don't believe him or Pep Lijnders who has been very vocal about there being a pathway into the first team for younger players. You're just making the rest up though.

Just say that Klopp is an FSG stooge if that's what you believe.

Except he never said that. He didn't go into any detail about the sort of side he'd play in the final two group games but hinted that it would be important financially to try to win them.

[Rick]

Where did I say there wasn’t a pathway to the first team for youth? 
 

Im not calling Klopp a stooge for them at all. He’s hardly going to air his dirty laundry in public. If you thin Klopp is happy having to rely on Keita and Ox to have important roles in this midfield then that’s on you. They’ve show very little consistency in the last 18 months to warrant it. He was also unhappy with Gini leaving, and look at the games he played for us. You lose a guy who’s playing 40+ games a season and don’t replace them, and you’d be happy? 

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, Rick said:

Where did I say there wasn’t a pathway to the first team for youth? 
 

Im not calling Klopp a stooge for them at all. He’s hardly going to air his dirty laundry in public. If you thin Klopp is happy having to rely on Keita and Ox to have important roles in this midfield then that’s on you. They’ve show very little consistency in the last 18 months to warrant it. He was also unhappy with Gini leaving, and look at the games he played for us. You lose a guy who’s playing 40+ games a season and don’t replace them, and you’d be happy? 

Signing another midfielder means there's an extra body in front of the likes of Jones and Elliott doesn't it?

Klopp speaks about the owners positively. If you think he's not being backed by them but not calling it out then he's doing their dirty work isn't he?

I do think he's happy with having Keita around. There's a reason he uses him whenever he's fit.

There's no evidence that Klopp was or is unhappy with his options in midfield.

[Cicero]

I mean it's a trade off really. 

Would you rather see players like Jones and Elliot develop or would you rather have established CMs. 

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Klopp speaks about the owners positively.

Just to play devil's advocate on this, does any manager publicly slag off their owners anyway? I'm struggling to think of a time where a manager has done so directly. 

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

Just to play devil's advocate on this, does any manager publicly slag off their owners anyway? I'm struggling to think of a time where a manager has done so directly. 

[LFCMike]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

Just to play devil's advocate on this, does any manager publicly slag off their owners anyway? I'm struggling to think of a time where a manager has done so directly. 

There's been plenty of managers who have complained publicly when they haven't got what they want in the transfer market

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

Just to play devil's advocate on this, does any manager publicly slag off their owners anyway? I'm struggling to think of a time where a manager has done so directly. 

The only time I think I've ever seen it done by a Liverpool manager was Rafa shitting on Rick Parry & Gillett and Hicks. Both of which were well deserved moments of criticism, imo.

Conte and Mourinho too, constantly.

[Rick]

2 hours ago, LFCMike said:

There's been plenty of managers who have complained publicly when they haven't got what they want in the transfer market

Okay, what does that prove? That every manager who doesn’t do this is happy? It’s called professionalism, some managers show a lack of it by running off to the press with their problems. 
 

I don’t think me wanting an established CM means I’m against players developing. What I am against, is a club like us with the ambitions we have relying too much on a teenager who is barely of legal drinking age. It’s should not be a “well it’s one or the other” kind of argument. 
 

I like Keita, I think he’s a good player one his day. But he signed for this club in 2018 and he has 60 appearances in the league. And that’s not 60 starts either. That’s not good enough to justify the price and his expected role in the squad. We need to learn to be a bit more ruthless with players like plenty of other top teams manage to do. I don’t hate Ox as a person, he seems like a great guy. But what I do have a problem with is the lessening impact he has had in this team for 18 months +. 
 

Breaking it down simply; I think we need another senior midfielder to replace Gini & we need another attacking option. Klopp was looking at Jared Bowen from West Ham for a while, so it’s not like he doesn’t think we can improve the squad in that way himself. These aren’t outrageous shouts by me at all. The reactions from some is as if I have said “rip up the squad and start again”. 

[LFCMike]

5 minutes ago, Rick said:

Okay, what does that prove? That every manager who doesn’t do this is happy? It’s called professionalism, some managers show a lack of it by running off to the press with their problems. 
 

I don’t think me wanting an established CM means I’m against players developing. What I am against, is a club like us with the ambitions we have relying too much on a teenager who is barely of legal drinking age. It’s should not be a “well it’s one or the other” kind of argument. 
 

I like Keita, I think he’s a good player one his day. But he signed for this club in 2018 and he has 60 appearances in the league. And that’s not 60 starts either. That’s not good enough to justify the price and his expected role in the squad. We need to learn to be a bit more ruthless with players like plenty of other top teams manage to do. I don’t hate Ox as a person, he seems like a great guy. But what I do have a problem with is the lessening impact he has had in this team for 18 months +. 
 

Breaking it down simply; I think we need another senior midfielder to replace Gini & we need another attacking option. Klopp was looking at Jared Bowen from West Ham for a while, so it’s not like he doesn’t think we can improve the squad in that way himself. These aren’t outrageous shouts by me at all. The reactions from some is as if I have said “rip up the squad and start again”. 

I've no problem with people thinking that we could upgrade Chamberlain or Keita. I think it's weird that people just make things up that Klopp is being stopped from doing that. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, LFCMike said:

Signing another midfielder means there's an extra body in front of the likes of Jones and Elliott doesn't it?

Klopp speaks about the owners positively. If you think he's not being backed by them but not calling it out then he's doing their dirty work isn't he?

I do think he's happy with having Keita around. There's a reason he uses him whenever he's fit.

There's no evidence that Klopp was or is unhappy with his options in midfield.

The thing is with so many injury prone established midfielders - I'm not so sure it does put an extra body in the grand scheme of things. And prior to the nasty injury, it looked like Elliott had beat out established players like Thiago to the starting spot.

It just makes it a bit all the more difficult for us having established players in and out of the starting line-up and lacking consistency when they come back from injury and needing to get in the swing of things. Tbf to Fabinho, there's been times where he's come back from injury and slotted in as nothing happened - so maybe he should have just played better yesterday. But Thiago looked rusty as fuck and if last season is any indication it takes him some time to get fully in the swing of things.

Losing someone like Gini does hurt us and when his form dropped last season we had the same sort of issues we're having now too. The midfield is giving up control and putting our high defensive line under a lot of pressure. And I think that leads to matches where we probably should have won (like the match against Brighton) turning into draws and matches we maybe should have drawn (like against West Ham) into losses. But really on the balance of play, West Ham were pretty good value for their win - our midfield put up no resistance and provided such shit cover for the defense.

Although I think Cresswell not seeing red was a huge mistake from the ref & VAR. I can understand the argument for Alisson's own goal standing - I'm biased as fuck so I don't really agree, but I think there's a better argument for that being able to stand than for Cresswell's challenge to have been not even deemed a foul. But West Ham played well, imo - whereas we were just so poor in midfield.

I still think we need to sign a player to fill in for the Gini sized hole in the squad. I think Harvey Elliott and Curtis Jones are the eventual successors to the Ox and Curtis Jones in the squad.

[Spike]

Jurgen Klopp only complains when the team loses and then he throws a huge tantrum everytime.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Jurgen Klopp only complains when the team loses and then he throws a huge tantrum everytime.

And is actually a very rude individual in doing so.

[LFCMike]

28 minutes ago, Spike said:

Jurgen Klopp only complains when the team loses and then he throws a huge tantrum everytime.

Football manager is a bad loser. Shock.

[Rick]

43 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I've no problem with people thinking that we could upgrade Chamberlain or Keita. I think it's weird that people just make things up that Klopp is being stopped from doing that. 

Lack of funds given is him being stopped from doing it. When given limited funds in the summer, he rightly prioritised bringing in a defender. 

[RandoEFC+]

Klopp has gone full Mourinho a few times now in a number of post match interviews. Remember when they lost because of the wind that time? Guardiola is as bad. It's nothing new, they're all capable of it.

The media have their narratives that sell in the way they want though, as with everything else. Klopp's character is the fun, laid back German uncle who swears in English in press conferences sometimes and isn't that just adorable. Guardiola is the slightly mad genius character. Mourinho is the pantomime villain though. There are other managers too who get portrayed very differently to others when they have a post match meltdown but he's the obvious example.

There are other factors as well. Obviously Mourinho has pissed a lot of people off over the years so "LOL Mourinho" gets clicks. Also if they think a manager's job is at risk and they do an annoyed interview, it's all over Sky Sports social media within seconds because narrative, narrative, narrative. And did I mention narrative?

Objective reaction to anything in football is long gone. If Klopp's job is ever at genuine risk he'll suddenly start getting a very different ride from the media.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

Klopp has gone full Mourinho a few times now in a number of post match interviews. Remember when they lost because of the wind that time? Guardiola is as bad. It's nothing new, they're all capable of it.

The media have their narratives that sell in the way they want though, as with everything else. Klopp's character is the fun, laid back German uncle who swears in English in press conferences sometimes and isn't that just adorable. Guardiola is the slightly mad genius character. Mourinho is the pantomime villain though. There are other managers too who get portrayed very differently to others when they have a post match meltdown but he's the obvious example.

There are other factors as well. Obviously Mourinho has pissed a lot of people off over the years so "LOL Mourinho" gets clicks. Also if they think a manager's job is at risk and they do an annoyed interview, it's all over Sky Sports social media within seconds because narrative, narrative, narrative. And did I mention narrative?

Objective reaction to anything in football is long gone. If Klopp's job is ever at genuine risk he'll suddenly start getting a very different ride from the media.

Best example of that is seeing how the media used to treat Mourinho compared to how they treat him now.

[LFCMadLad]

8 minutes ago, Rick said:

Lack of funds given is him being stopped from doing it. When given limited funds in the summer, he rightly prioritised bringing in a defender. 

Klopp has literally said that funds were available... 

You saying funds were not available is totally going against everything coming out of the club.. its guess work at best.

You wanted Saul, Townsend and fucking Rondon brought in ffs. Sorry if we trust the clubs judgment over yours mate.