Arsenal 1-2 Man City - Saturday 1st January, 2022

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@The Palace Fan @Cicero most people like that lenientcy with fouls in England

Says who? When a team is clearly stopped for a quick transition or counter attack, it should be a yellow card. We hardly see that consistently in England and Pep has taken advantage of it. 

[Danny]

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

They've spent like an elitist European club for the past 5 years, and now they are entering a Premier League season having no European football and spending the most in England the previous window. Sorry, but my expectations are right where they should be.

Since the first three games of the season they have performed well and are deservedly where they should be, fitness and a reduction of games being the biggest benefactor. Beating City convincingly would've added to their confidence in the long run knowing that game is out of the way. 

What makes it more difficult for me to really rationalise with you is over the years you've constantly criticsed our spending and our failure to match it with silverware and/or with a more expansive brand of football. 

What is clear about Arsenal is that over the last two Summer transfer windows their recruitment has been really good. Prior to that their recruitment hasn’t been, David Luiz and Pepe in the same window was bad. William Saliba on top of that and what happened to his Arsenal career. The 18/19 season they signed Torreria, Leno, Sokratis, Guendozi. The summer before they signed Auba, which was a great signing. Away from him Lacazette was expected to be a 20-30 goal striker and he consistently struggled to hit that level. Mkhitaryan wasn’t a terrible signing but not a great one either.

For those 3 years I have been extremely critical of Arsenal, their spending, their players, their mindset. I’m sure Arsenal fans on here will have a memory of me slagging their team off, at times probably a bit too much. I’m critical of Chelsea because they have a continuous lottery ticket, yes Arsenal have spent about £200m less than you in a 5 year period but your wage bill will be much much bigger and that’s the difference.

Now back to Arsenal, I’ve lived in north London for the past year and have taken a general interest in Arsenal cos I live near them. Prior to the Summer of 2020 they were a shit show with no real future, but in the Summer of 2020  Raul Sanllehi left the club and it created a new era where all the transfer dealings came down to Edu and Arteta alone, their vision and their view. The summer window of 20/21 season was still a bit questionable was William came in and Partey took time to adapt, but they also brought in Odegaard and sold Ozil. Then you fast forward to this Summer, this was the Summer where either it all starts to come together for Arteta and Edu or it falls apart. Of the 5 signings they made this Summer, 4 have been mainstays of this Arsenal team. Plus 2 more from last Summer. They also quickly rectified the Willian issue by getting rid of him.

What the departure of Raul Sanllehi and the combination of 7 players of their current starting eleven being signed since then, with the addition of this seasons good form tells me is that Arsenal are finally at the beginning of a process that is working for them. They are also learning, Arteta and Edu are making less mistakes in the transfer window and making more good decisions, they are no longer relying on the old guard or experienced high earners who might dig their heels in and are trying to get rid. We’ve seen it with Ozil, was a massive moment for the club. Willian got sent straight out, no more Luiz and Auba will most likely leave in the Summer.

This current Arsenal team is the product of their academy bringing through game changing talent in Smith-Rowe & Saka, players like Xhaka and Lacazette buying into Arteta’s vision and the transfer dealings of the last two Summers and one Winter combining to finally put a fresh and talented side out that can compete.  Raul Sanllehi‘s departure marked the start of this current Arsenal side, it started slowly but it is now pushing into full effect and within the next two transfer windows we should see an Arsenal team capable of achieving top 4. If by the end of next season they don’t appear to have made progress from where they are now then there is cause for concern, but this is a youthful and inexperienced team whose origins really began the Summer of 20/21 and aren’t currently ready to be considered definite top 4 challengers. That needs to come next season and imo with the incoming of a 20-30 goal striker, a centre mid to compete with Partey/Lakonga and another CB to compete with White and Gabriel as the drop off after those two is too big imo.

You can disagree with that all you want or claim my view of Chelsea is unfair, that’s a discussion for another topic, but having followed Arsenal closely this season and last I believe they’ve turned a corner and we are seeing the ground work of a really good side, but it still too soon to assume this is or should be a certified top 4 side.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Says who? When a team is clearly stopped for a quick transition or counter attack, it should be a yellow card. We hardly see that consistently in England and Pep has taken advantage of it. 

A lot of older fans dont want as many fouls given as yellows. Pundits seem to mention it alot as well. Less common with younger fans I think 

[Rick]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

A lot of older fans dont want as many fouls given as yellows. Pundits seem to mention it alot as well. Less common with younger fans I think 

I think most fans would agree than cynical (or tactical) fouls should be punished every time. It’s 50/50 challenges and the “fouls” that pens are given for that create the most debate. We don’t want players flopping around like Bernardo Silva did today and getting a penalty for it. 

[RandoEFC+]

14 minutes ago, Danny said:

What is clear about Arsenal is that over the last two Summer transfer windows their recruitment has been really good. Prior to that their recruitment hasn’t been, David Luiz and Pepe in the same window was bad. William Saliba on top of that and what happened to his Arsenal career. The 18/19 season they signed Torreria, Leno, Sokratis, Guendozi. The summer before they signed Auba, which was a great signing. Away from him Lacazette was expected to be a 20-30 goal striker and he consistently struggled to hit that level. Mkhitaryan wasn’t a terrible signing but not a great one either.

For those 3 years I have been extremely critical of Arsenal, their spending, their players, their mindset. I’m sure Arsenal fans on here will have a memory of me slagging their team off, at times probably a bit too much. I’m critical of Chelsea because they have a continuous lottery ticket, yes Arsenal have spent about £200m less than you in a 5 year period but your wage bill will be much much bigger and that’s the difference.

Now back to Arsenal, I’ve lived in north London for the past year and have taken a general interest in Arsenal cos I live near them. Prior to the Summer of 2020 they were a shit show with no real future, but in the Summer of 2020  Raul Sanllehi left the club and it created a new era where all the transfer dealings came down to Edu and Arteta alone, their vision and their view. The summer window of 20/21 season was still a bit questionable was William came in and Partey took time to adapt, but they also brought in Odegaard and sold Ozil. Then you fast forward to this Summer, this was the Summer where either it all starts to come together for Arteta and Edu or it falls apart. Of the 5 signings they made this Summer, 4 have been mainstays of this Arsenal team. Plus 2 more from last Summer. They also quickly rectified the Willian issue by getting rid of him.

What the departure of Raul Sanllehi and the combination of 7 players of their current starting eleven being signed since then, with the addition of this seasons good form tells me is that Arsenal are finally at the beginning of a process that is working for them. They are also learning, Arteta and Edu are making less mistakes in the transfer window and making more good decisions, they are no longer relying on the old guard or experienced high earners who might dig their heels in and are trying to get rid. We’ve seen it with Ozil, was a massive moment for the club. Willian got sent straight out, no more Luiz and Auba will most likely leave in the Summer.

This current Arsenal team is the product of their academy bringing through game changing talent in Smith-Rowe & Saka, players like Xhaka and Lacazette buying into Arteta’s vision and the transfer dealings of the last two Summers and one Winter combining to finally put a fresh and talented side out that can compete.  Raul Sanllehi‘s departure marked the start of this current Arsenal side, it started slowly but it is now pushing into full effect and within the next two transfer windows we should see an Arsenal team capable of achieving top 4. If by the end of next season they don’t appear to have made progress from where they are now then there is cause for concern, but this is a youthful and inexperienced team whose origins really began the Summer of 20/21 and aren’t currently ready to be considered definite top 4 challengers. That needs to come next season and imo with the incoming of a 20-30 goal striker, a centre mid to compete with Partey/Lakonga and another CB to compete with White and Gabriel as the drop off after those two is too big imo.

You can disagree with that all you want or claim my view of Chelsea is unfair, that’s a discussion for another topic, but having followed Arsenal closely this season and last I believe they’ve turned a corner and we are seeing the ground work of a really good side, but it still too soon to assume this is or should be a certified top 4 side.

Welcome back @SirBalon.

[Cicero]

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

What is clear about Arsenal is that over the last two Summer transfer windows their recruitment has been really good. Prior to that their recruitment hasn’t been, David Luiz and Pepe in the same window was bad. William Saliba on top of that and what happened to his Arsenal career. The 18/19 season they signed Torreria, Leno, Sokratis, Guendozi. The summer before they signed Auba, which was a great signing. Away from him Lacazette was expected to be a 20-30 goal striker and he consistently struggled to hit that level. Mkhitaryan wasn’t a terrible signing but not a great one either.

From reading this paragraph in particular, I am reminiscing your posts cricticing how we handled Barcelona in 2012 and not beating them with a more expansive brand of football considering our investment and ingoring the fact we had Raul Meireles, Ramires, and a 34 year old Frank Lampard in midfield. 

You can see it's difficult for me to rationalise with your double standards on who can use the poor investment excuse. 

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

For those 3 years I have been extremely critical of Arsenal, their spending, their players, their mindset. I’m sure Arsenal fans on here will have a memory of me slagging their team off, at times probably a bit too much. I’m critical of Chelsea because they have a continuous lottery ticket, yes Arsenal have spent about £200m less than you in a 5 year period but your wage bill will be much much bigger and that’s the difference.

Ah so our poor spending was never taken into consideration but Arsenal's was.  So what is the cut off on expenditure and players wages to which this can't be used as an excuse? Is this also an excuse why Arsenal couldn't finish above clubs they significantly spent more than?

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

Now back to Arsenal, I’ve lived in north London for the past year and have taken a general interest in Arsenal cos I live near them. Prior to the Summer of 2020 they were a shit show with no real future, but in the Summer of 2020  Raul Sanllehi left the club and it created a new era where all the transfer dealings came down to Edu and Arteta alone, their vision and their view. The summer window of 20/21 season was still a bit questionable was William came in and Partey took time to adapt, but they also brought in Odegaard and sold Ozil. Then you fast forward to this Summer, this was the Summer where either it all starts to come together for Arteta and Edu or it falls apart. Of the 5 signings they made this Summer, 4 have been mainstays of this Arsenal team. Plus 2 more from last Summer. They also quickly rectified the Willian issue by getting rid of him.

What the departure of Raul Sanllehi and the combination of 7 players of their current starting eleven being signed since then, with the addition of this seasons good form tells me is that Arsenal are finally at the beginning of a process that is working for them. They are also learning, Arteta and Edu are making less mistakes in the transfer window and making more good decisions, they are no longer relying on the old guard or experienced high earners who might dig their heels in and are trying to get rid. We’ve seen it with Ozil, was a massive moment for the club. Willian got sent straight out, no more Luiz and Auba will most likely leave in the Summer.

Well cheers on proving my double standards argument. You have an interest with Arsenal. Fair enough. 

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

This current Arsenal team is the product of their academy bringing through game changing talent in Smith-Rowe & Saka, players like Xhaka and Lacazette buying into Arteta’s vision and the transfer dealings of the last two Summers and one Winter combining to finally put a fresh and talented side out that can compete.  Raul Sanllehi‘s departure marked the start of this current Arsenal side, it started slowly but it is now pushing into full effect and within the next two transfer windows we should see an Arsenal team capable of achieving top 4. If by the end of next season they don’t appear to have made progress from where they are now then there is cause for concern, but this is a youthful and inexperienced team whose origins really began the Summer of 20/21 and aren’t currently ready to be considered definite top 4 challengers. That needs to come next season and imo with the incoming of a 20-30 goal striker, a centre mid to compete with Partey/Lakonga and another CB to compete with White and Gabriel as the drop off after those two is too big imo.

And yet, not a mummer from you when Tammy, Mount, James, and CHO were brought through to help us secure Top 4 under Lampard. You simply blamed it on the Transfer ban and still said we had a heavily invested side that should be finishing there anyway when 95% of the forum, including yourself, predicted us to finish outside. 

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

You can disagree with that all you want or claim my view of Chelsea is unfair, that’s a discussion for another topic, but having followed Arsenal closely this season and last I believe they’ve turned a corner and we are seeing the ground work of a really good side, but it still too soon to assume this is or should be a certified top 4 side.

It's not that I disagree with or don't accept your argument, it's just difficult for me to rationalise with you when I've taken severe notice of your citicism of us over the years and not showing the same consistency elsewhere. 

[Danny]

18 minutes ago, Cicero said:

From reading this paragraph in particular, I am reminiscing your posts cricticing how we handled Barcelona in 2012 and not beating them with a more expansive brand of football considering our investment and ingoring the fact we had Raul Meireles, Ramires, and a 34 year old Frank Lampard in midfield. 

You can see it's difficult for me to rationalise with your double standards on who can use the poor investment excuse. 

Ah so our poor spending was never taken into consideration but Arsenal's was.  So what is the cut off on expenditure and players wages to which this can't be used as an excuse? Is this also an excuse why Arsenal couldn't finish above clubs they significantly spent more than?

Well cheers on proving my double standards argument. You have an interest with Arsenal. Fair enough. 

And yet, not a mummer from you when Tammy, Mount, James, and CHO were brought through to help us secure Top 4 under Lampard. You simply blamed it on the Transfer ban and still said we had a heavily invested side that should be finishing there anyway when 95% of the forum, including yourself, predicted us to finish outside. 

It's not that I disagree with or don't accept your argument, it's just difficult for me to rationalise with you when I've taken severe notice of your citicism of us over the years and not showing the same consistency elsewhere. 

I feel like an ex-girlfriend at this point. If you’re holding onto posts from 2012 then I don’t know what to say, but yes we all contradict ourselves at some point and yes some posts related to some clubs are off the cuff and less thought through. I can’t say I sit up at night and worry about having been unfair to Chelsea.

[Cicero]

10 minutes ago, Danny said:

I feel like an ex-girlfriend at this point. If you’re holding onto posts from 2012 then I don’t know what to say, but yes we all contradict ourselves at some point and yes some posts related to some clubs are off the cuff and less thought through. I can’t say I sit up at night and worry about having been unfair to Chelsea.

To be fair 2012 only springs to mind because we actually had an argument about you failing to look at the context at the situation. It was also the same year I joined so apologies if my first altercations with other members stay to memory. That being said, you've actually brought up this argument several times throughout the years and not just with us, but United on occasion as well. 

The fact you've realised your contradictions is something I respect. 

7 minutes ago, shut up said:

I like Cicero, but his head has gone in this thread. 

Aww I like you too. 

[Danny]

Just now, Cicero said:

To be fair 2012 only springs to mind because we actually an argument about you failing to look at the context at the situation. It was also the same year I joined so apologies if my first altercations with other members stay to memory. That being said, you've actually brought it up this argument several times throughout the years and not just with us, but United on occasion as well. 

The fact you've realised your contradictions is something I respect. 

This isn’t personal to you but I have no real sense of respect for Chelsea as a football club, for me you are simply a billionaires lottery ticket for him to do what he likes. So any sense of respect for small battles goes out the window because the money will always be there, a world class manager will always be there, world class players will always be there, if not today then tomorrow. That is how it is for me and with that there will be a contradiction in how I understand a club like Arsenal’s journey compared to yours.

I think the United comment is in relation to my overall view of capitalism within the Premier League but emotionally they are a club I can look at in the same respect as Arsenal.

[MUFC]

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

I feel like an ex-girlfriend at this point. If you’re holding onto posts from 2012 then I don’t know what to say, but yes we all contradict ourselves at some point and yes some posts related to some clubs are off the cuff and less thought through. I can’t say I sit up at night and worry about having been unfair to Chelsea.

Any pics?

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Danny said:

This isn’t personal to you but I have no real sense of respect for Chelsea as a football club, for me you are simply a billionaires lottery ticket for him to do what he likes. So any sense of respect for small battles goes out the window because the money will always be there, a world class manager will always be there, world class players will always be there, if not today then tomorrow. That is how it is for me and with that there will be a contradiction in how I understand a club like Arsenal’s journey compared to yours.

I think the United comment is in relation to my overall view of capitalism within the Premier League but emotionally they are a club I can look at in the same respect as Arsenal.

That's fair enough. Truly. Still doesn't mean you can't separate your ethical perspective from logical fallacies when backing your argument. 

[Danny]

10 minutes ago, Cicero said:

That's fair enough. Truly. Still doesn't mean you can't separate your ethical perspective from logical fallacies when backing your argument. 

In fairness sometimes I just want to wind @Bluewolf up

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Rick said:

I want to punch Peter Walton. His explanation for that City pen made no fucking sense. 

I hate Peter Walton, he’s the a total dickhead and should be nowhere near any sort of TV broadcast.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, RondónEFC said:

Welcome back @SirBalon.

Looks like I haunted Danny whilst I was away. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Looks like I haunted Danny whilst I was away. 

Best thing about you being back is I don’t feel compelled to write gigantic posts to force people to read more because I was concerned with you gone we weren’t reading enough.

Now that you’re back, you’ll make sure we get a healthy number of words to keep our brains sharp!

[Guest]

Welcome back @SirBalon we clashed quite alot but hopefully we can forget about that and have some great conversations 

[Cicero]

Just need Cannabis, Teso, Marc, and Brian to return to bring back the glorious 2018 vibe. 

[Guest]

@Danny @Cicero I dont think is any doubt you could argue we have underachieved. However i dont think we are the only ones. Looking at the net spend table I would say man utd,everton and aston villa have underacheived more than us. Utd in particular. They have the highest net spend over the last 5 years. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Just need Cannabis, Teso, Marc, and Brian to return to bring back the glorious 2018 vibe. 

Cannabis definitely. Not the rest though. It would be war and us all hearing about how Peru is the best nation ever 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

From reading this paragraph in particular, I am reminiscing your posts cricticing how we handled Barcelona in 2012 and not beating them with a more expansive brand of football considering our investment and ingoring the fact we had Raul Meireles, Ramires, and a 34 year old Frank Lampard in midfield. 

You can see it's difficult for me to rationalise with your double standards on who can use the poor investment excuse. 

Ah so our poor spending was never taken into consideration but Arsenal's was.  So what is the cut off on expenditure and players wages to which this can't be used as an excuse? Is this also an excuse why Arsenal couldn't finish above clubs they significantly spent more than?

Well cheers on proving my double standards argument. You have an interest with Arsenal. Fair enough. 

And yet, not a mummer from you when Tammy, Mount, James, and CHO were brought through to help us secure Top 4 under Lampard. You simply blamed it on the Transfer ban and still said we had a heavily invested side that should be finishing there anyway when 95% of the forum, including yourself, predicted us to finish outside. 

It's not that I disagree with or don't accept your argument, it's just difficult for me to rationalise with you when I've taken severe notice of your citicism of us over the years and not showing the same consistency elsewhere. 

He’s not wrong about the transfer ban being why those kids got a chance, tbf.

Chelsea have long had one of the best academies in the country. But managers seldom take the risk to move players to the first team - they typically have to get their shot out on loan because expensive first team players coming in to perform now is important to managers that don’t last too long at Chelsea.

Lampard was brought in and used a lot of these young players because there was a transfer ban. I think in normal situations you wouldn’t have hired Lampard and you’d have given an established pro a lot of money to spend.

I think it’s fair to treat Arsenal and Chelsea as wholly different clubs, even though Arsenal have had years of heavy spending - which hasn’t always paid off. Arsenal operate more like a normal football club tbh, even if they’re owned by a billionaire.

Chelsea don’t really operate in the same way and that’s why up until that transfer ban they were privileged enough to just use their top tier academy as a way of funding expensive signings and calling that “self-sustainable”

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Cannabis definitely. Not the rest though. It would be war and us all hearing about how Peru is the best nation ever 

TF365 Memes page is getting cobwebs. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Just need Cannabis, Teso, Marc, and Brian to return to bring back the glorious 2018 vibe. 

@Whiskey can you give Cannabis a text and see if he’ll come back?

[Guest]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

@Whiskey can you give Cannabis a text and see if he’ll come back?

Not the rest though. I like brian I talk to him on Facebook sometimes. But he got so annoyed its probably better for everybody if hes not on the forum. Teso was an idiot imo. Dont remember much about mark. Did kel get banned out of interest for holocaust denial? 

[Whiskey]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@Whiskey can you give Cannabis a text and see if he’ll come back?

I briefly remember his name when I used to lurk on here before signing up, sounded a right virgin to be honest. God knows what he's up to now.

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Not the rest though. I like brian I talk to him on Facebook sometimes. But he got so annoyed its probably better for everybody if hes not on the forum. Teso was an idiot imo. Dont remember much about mark. Did kel get banned out of interest for holocaust denial? 

Agreed, that Cannabis was such a douche. Good riddance IMO lol

[Guest]

@Whiskey I was actually saying it would be good if cannabis did come back