Russia and Ukraine

[Azeem]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

Man, I bet on the USA doing it.

Some British intel may be involved. UK has been getting involved in unwanted places on behalf of America lately so can't rule out the possibility.

 

[Honey Honey]

Kremlin parrots whatever line these online "truth tellers" come out with. 

That a questionable kimdotcom tweet can have the Kremlin demand answers and tell everyone the Royal Navy did it is pathetic.

[Waylander]

16 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

On paper Russia supports both Armenia and Azerbaijan. In actuality, that support is really just them selling weapons to both of them. When the two sides are in conflict, Russia (and it's peacekeeping forces) have proven to be generally useless.

That would not surprise me re Russia making money out of selling arms yet Turkey only supports Azerbaijan.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Waylander said:

That would not surprise me re Russia making money out of selling arms yet Turkey only supports Azerbaijan.

I think Israel also supporting Azerbaijan. When they celebrated their victory over Armenia 2 years ago they celebrated with many displays of the Azerbaijani flag between a Turkish flag & Israeli flag

[Waylander]

Well at one point the US had forces in Azerbaijan and the US militarily supports Israel and Turkey is a NATO member. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Waylander said:

Well at one point the US had forces in Azerbaijan 

When? I'm not familiar with that happening at all.

But if push came to shove, the US would absolutely fall on the side of Azerbaijan because: 1.) Turkey and NATO, 2.) oil and gas. Both Armenia and Azerbaijan also have precious metals... but I think that oil and gas would be more of a draw to the US.

[Waylander]

Recall that bizarre football final between us and Arsenal in Baku to which both teams fans struggled to get flights.

Azerbaijan was allegedly meant to supply oil to central Asia via Afghanistan and into Pakistan and India and prices in $, Russia imports Russian fuel and Imran Khan was deposed for wanting the same.

The Taleban had other ideas so guess that is now dead in the water.

Qatar and the World Cup, Qatar has been close to Iran at times so i guess this is an attempt to pull them towards the West and to isolate Iran further.

This is a dirty game of world power and politics.

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 03/11/2022 at 11:38, Waylander said:

Recall that bizarre football final between us and Arsenal in Baku to which both teams fans struggled to get flights.

Azerbaijan was allegedly meant to supply oil to central Asia via Afghanistan and into Pakistan and India and prices in $, Russia imports Russian fuel and Imran Khan was deposed for wanting the same.

The Taleban had other ideas so guess that is now dead in the water.

Qatar and the World Cup, Qatar has been close to Iran at times so i guess this is an attempt to pull them towards the West and to isolate Iran further.

This is a dirty game of world power and politics.

Isn't this always a dirty game of world power and politics? Like that's basically the story of human history, with regular people just sort of living as the people in power go around fucking the world up.

[Waylander]

I agree on the dirty game.

[Azeem]

The military complex benefits from all wars, from all sides.

[Tommy]

 

[OrangeKhrush]

pretty good reality perspective rather than support Ukraine because the puppet masters that started it tell you too.

[OrangeKhrush]

On 09/11/2022 at 18:51, Tommy said:

 

Ukraine destroyed the only bridge into Kherson it is more a strategic withdraw so they don't leave troops isolated on the wrong side of the river and unable to supply.   the river is a natural barrier and a zero point.   

I see the UK ministry of defence and intelligence put up an up to date map and people screamed it is not true because CNN and co said Kherson was taken, in reality the gains are minor and Russia controls 200-300 miles inside Ukraine from east to south.

the war is NATO reneging on the Minsk accord and proliferating military occupation beyond the red line drawn in 1990.   the only solution to this madness is peace talks but NATO will not bully Russia into consensus on their terms.  if this continues then I'm afraid the consequences will come.

[Spike]

So my understanding is that ultimately USA wants complete removal of Russian forces in Ukraine and the return of all the annexed regions to Ukraine. Obviously Russia doesn’t want to do this, but Russia knows that the the Donbas region is ethnically and culturally in support of Russianism, so the removal of Russian control of the region will likely bring further protesting and violence as pro-Russian separatism has been an issue since the Euromaiden.

Neither side will budge, because the ball is obviously in Russia’s hands until pro-Russian sentiment is weakened in the region. USA will never compromise to split the territory of Ukraine between Ukraine and Russia despite the fact this would be the quickest route to a resolution to the groundwar. 

In other words this conflict could have been avoided if the pro-Russian regions were allowed to succeed following the Euromaiden, as they were strongly in support of he previous President and his pro-Russia ties, while the west was deeply condemning Yanukovych and his governments closeness to Russia.

[Azeem]

20 hours ago, Spike said:

So my understanding is that ultimately USA wants complete removal of Russian forces in Ukraine and the return of all the annexed regions to Ukraine. Obviously Russia doesn’t want to do this, but Russia knows that the the Donbas region is ethnically and culturally in support of Russianism, so the removal of Russian control of the region will likely bring further protesting and violence as pro-Russian separatism has been an issue since the Euromaiden.

Neither side will budge, because the ball is obviously in Russia’s hands until pro-Russian sentiment is weakened in the region. USA will never compromise to split the territory of Ukraine between Ukraine and Russia despite the fact this would be the quickest route to a resolution to the groundwar. 

In other words this conflict could have been avoided if the pro-Russian regions were allowed to succeed following the Euromaiden, as they were strongly in support of he previous President and his pro-Russia ties, while the west was deeply condemning Yanukovych and his governments closeness to Russia.

A lot of modern conflicts could've been avoided if people who are nations in their own right are allowed sovereignty to some extent. Most countries who came into existent or have their modern basis after WW2 are a result of complex historical and geopolitical realities trying to box them into strict notions of statehood is recipe for conflict.

[Spike]

49 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

A lot of modern conflicts could've been avoided if people who are nations in their own right are allowed sovereignty to some extent. Most countries who came into existent or have their modern basis after WW2 are a result of complex historical and geopolitical realities trying to box them into strict notions of statehood is recipe for conflict.

It is somewhat a shame too because I know there are feelings for regret and nostalgia for the dissolution of some of these states, like Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union. It is almost like people don’t know what they have till it is gone.

[Azeem]

19 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

Explosion in Turkey. I have a haunch this has to do with the Ukraine war. Turkey is hosting active belligerents from both sides it can become a battle turf.

Posting this here because Turkish interior minister has refused to accept American condolences over the Istanbul blast insinuating we know where the attack was planned. Turkey's control over Black Sea is double edged sword, it gives them freedom of action in this conflict while also makes both sides drool over trying to take away that control. This blast was a warning to Turkey to think about whose side to take.

[Waylander]

28 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

Posting this here because Turkish interior minister has refused to accept American condolences over the Istanbul blast insinuating we know where the attack was planned. Turkey's control over Black Sea is double edged sword, it gives them freedom of action in this conflict while also makes both sides drool over trying to take away that control. This blast was a warning to Turkey to think about whose side to take.

I wondered about this too as religious groups normally claim responsibility to get more recruits. Yet if not them then likely a super power as you say they hold a strategic position between the Black Sea and Mediterranean. Yet Turkey is also a player in the Syrian situation so difficult to interpret. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

Posting this here because Turkish interior minister has refused to accept American condolences over the Istanbul blast insinuating we know where the attack was planned. Turkey's control over Black Sea is double edged sword, it gives them freedom of action in this conflict while also makes both sides drool over trying to take away that control. This blast was a warning to Turkey to think about whose side to take.

Isn't that because Turkey's saying the attack was done by Kurds that the US is financing?

[Bluewolf]

[Azeem]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Isn't that because Turkey's saying the attack was done by Kurds that the US is financing?

This time they said U.S potentially was involved in coordinating the attack from basis in Syria. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

This time they said U.S potentially was involved in coordinating the attack from basis in Syria. 

I have a hard time believing the US would attack civilians of a NATO ally, tbh - which makes me think it's just Erdogan doing Erdogan things so he can block certain social media and rally against Kurds.

[Waylander]

Back when I was working in Banking I was talking with the department manager and he had his way of looking at life, he had a bucket list of 50 things to get through or do each year.

He found sky diving and after talking about world politics talked about one of his fellow sky divers.

He wouldn't exchange names and said he worked for government and said no point  getting too friendly as he may never see him again.

On pushing he said he worked abroad and had to cut labels off of clothes and in some places bag up his poo.

The manager said he did not know if he was on the level or not.

 

 

[nudge]

Polish PM has just called for an urgent meeting of the National Security Committee. Not confirmed yet, but some news agencies are reporting that a suspected missile hit a village in Poland, killing two people  

EDIT: two suspected missiles in the village of Przewodów near the Ukranian border.

Edited November 15, 2022 by nudge

[Stan]

5 hours ago, Waylander said:

Back when I was working in Banking I was talking with the department manager and he had his way of looking at life, he had a bucket list of 50 things to get through or do each year.

He found sky diving and after talking about world politics talked about one of his fellow sky divers.

He wouldn't exchange names and said he worked for government and said no point  getting too friendly as he may never see him again.

On pushing he said he worked abroad and had to cut labels off of clothes and in some places bag up his poo.

The manager said he did not know if he was on the level or not.

 

 

Finding it VERY hard to see the relevance of this anecdote in relation to what's happening in Russia and Ukraine