Kalvin Phillips Completes Move to Man City

[LFCMadLad]

20 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

Oh, so your going to be busy with the lube then tonight? 

You better believe it lad

[Cicero]

Gallagher is in no way, shape or form, a DM so having him replace Phillips would be like Lampard trying Kante as a lone DM. 

[Happy Blue]

59 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Gallagher is in no way, shape or form, a DM so having him replace Phillips would be like Lampard trying Kante as a lone DM. 

Don't think he meant as a direct replacement mate, he'd just like him with the transfer money they will  be getting

[Claret and Blue]

Wouldn't get anywhere near the city starting 11 

[OrangeKhrush]

The prices are madness,  he is worth nowhere near 30m let alone 50m but the market is out of control.    I have suggested it so many times that the is a arbitration body that can objectively place value on players rather than just being treated like currency.   

Baseball is very advanced on the player valuation front,  largely due to a very sophisticated metric system which attributes value based on current (recent) not past performance,  age,  contract value and years of control ie: The Angels had Albert Pujols who was once the best player in baseball and is a Hall of Famer with just under 100 WAR (wins against replacement) career which was hurt with 4 seasons of negative WAR,  in such instance his Contract of 35m a season made his trade value nothing irrespective of his career numbers.    Gary Sanchez had a monster season 3 years ago,  since then he has regressed has little trade value,  per Player trade values he is worth a few middling prospects.   

Football has a lot less moving parts and assessing the value of phillips based on being very average performance does not justify 50m.    I would also say beyond an arbitration panel to decide value,  they leagues should implement max salary caps determined on market value or commercial revenue and max fees for a player and max total spending per season.   If they don't there is going to be a serious economic collapse and the gap between the haves and have nots will just get wider.    

[Stan]

16 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The prices are madness,  he is worth nowhere near 30m let alone 50m but the market is out of control.    I have suggested it so many times that the is a arbitration body that can objectively place value on players rather than just being treated like currency.   

 

The selling club has every right to slap on a huge price tag. It might not be the player's worth in a practical sense, but it's what he's worth to the club. Basically saying to any potential buyer - 'pay up or fuck off'.

It's then the buyer's choice to go absolutely crazy and spend silly money, or go look elsewhere. 

[DeadLinesman]

18 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The prices are madness,  he is worth nowhere near 30m let alone 50m but the market is out of control.    I have suggested it so many times that the is a arbitration body that can objectively place value on players rather than just being treated like currency.   

Phillips is worth every bit of £50-60million to Leeds whereas his value as a Citeh player would be around half that. You only have to look at £100million for Grealish who sits in the bench at Citeh. You simply can’t put XYZ value on a player. Players are basically worthless at oil clubs because it doesn’t matter if they’re a bust. Again, look at Grealish. What other team could regularly leave a £100million player on the bench? Fuck, it’s why we play that carthorse at CB every week. 

[OrangeKhrush]

36 minutes ago, Stan said:

The selling club has every right to slap on a huge price tag. It might not be the player's worth in a practical sense, but it's what he's worth to the club. Basically saying to any potential buyer - 'pay up or fuck off'.

It's then the buyer's choice to go absolutely crazy and spend silly money, or go look elsewhere. 

We can agree to disagree,  I don't believe in subjectivity in determining value,  you don't get to subjectively determine the value of your car,  its value is subject to a method of valuation.   To me footballers are cars,  they depreciate in value unless it is a collectors item.   Players age, but performance doesn't stay the same,  they also earn more for often diminishing value. 

[DeadLinesman]

1 minute ago, OrangeKhrush said:

To me footballers are cars,  they depreciate in value unless it is a collectors item. 

You realise that top level footballers are collectors items? It’s literally what the clubs are doing. Collecting them.

[OrangeKhrush]

Just now, DeadLinesman said:

You realise that top level footballers are collectors items? It’s literally what the clubs are doing. Collecting them.

I wouldn't put Phillips in top level,  he is probably in the 60th percentile level,  Spurs probably bought a 70-80th percentile player in Bissouma with a better track record.

Ultimately the way football is going is going to hurt the have nots,  who are forced to pay an asking fee of 15 million for Lascelles because "subjective value" for a player that is probably worth closer to 5 million.    There needs to be a cut back on reckless spending. 

[DeadLinesman]

4 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I wouldn't put Phillips in top level,  he is probably in the 60th percentile level,  Spurs probably bought a 70-80th percentile player in Bissouma with a better track record.

Ultimately the way football is going is going to hurt the have nots,  who are forced to pay an asking fee of 15 million for Lascelles because "subjective value" for a player that is probably worth closer to 5 million.    There needs to be a cut back on reckless spending. 

Every premier league footballer player is top level. They’re literally the 0.05% of their profession worldwide in a 25 man squad when there’s millions of players available to choose from.

[OrangeKhrush]

4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Every premier league footballer player is top level. They’re literally the 0.05% of their profession worldwide in a 25 man squad when there’s millions of players available to choose from.

It is a talking point that will go on for a long time.   Particularly when the bottom teams have next to no chance of being competitive due to hyper inflation.    Players value can be fairly determined based off objective stats and that can be determined by an arbitration body that allows both parties to make submissions and the outcome gets decided by an independent arbiter.     If such systems were in place,  you probably wouldn't have overpaid on Pogba, McGuire and so many others,  you wont have a debt run club and you won't have teams like Barcelona with debts in the billions. 

[Stan]

22 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

We can agree to disagree,  I don't believe in subjectivity in determining value,  you don't get to subjectively determine the value of your car,  its value is subject to a method of valuation.   To me footballers are cars,  they depreciate in value unless it is a collectors item.   Players age, but performance doesn't stay the same,  they also earn more for often diminishing value. 

Happy to debate it. 

I do get to subjectively determine the value of my car. I'm just a fool if I price it too low and get my hand bitten off. Alternatively, the buyer becomes the fool if I price it very high and gets ripped off.

Anyway, I don't even believe footballers are like cars - they don't depreciate in value all the time. If anything, they grow in value when younger and approaching their peak.

Players age of course. But performances can become better. On a very basic level that is - we're ignoring several other mitigating factors when it comes to value of a player and how that gets determined. 

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

It is a talking point that will go on for a long time.   Particularly when the bottom teams have next to no chance of being competitive due to hyper inflation.    Players value can be fairly determined based off objective stats and that can be determined by an arbitration body that allows both parties to make submissions and the outcome gets decided by an independent arbiter.     If such systems were in place,  you probably wouldn't have overpaid on Pogba, McGuire and so many others,  you wont have a debt run club and you won't have teams like Barcelona with debts in the billions. 

On the flip side, you'd have lower-level clubs not get the money they want and argue they didn't get enough money when it comes to the selling of them. 

Man Utd might not have overpaid on Maguire if such a system was in place, but Leicester wouldn't have profited by slapping a price tag that is very high on him...

[Dr. Gonzo]

Footballers would be like cars if cars had a period of time that was their physical prime or if your brand new car could improve over time for a period of years of driving experience under the right circumstances until after the car's physical prime.

Footballers are athletes performing a service. The top flight players are the best players in terms of athleticism and skill in the country, continent, and really the world considering the population of the world is huge and the number of top flight footballers is much lower.

They're not machines, they don't immediately start depreciating as soon as you put them on the pitch for the first time. Kalvin Phillips has come up from the championship and been a bright light of quality in a Leeds side that punched well above it's weight last season and struggled this season while he was out, about to hit the years that typically is a man's physical prime.

He's more valuable to Leeds than he is to City, so Leeds are well within their rights to demand an inflated fee for a player that's likely going to have 3-4 of his best years ahead of him as long as he can avoid injury. Especially because City can afford to pay an inflated fee.

[Coma+]

According to the Athletic no formal bid has been made.  Phillips is in the process of switching agents and hasn't made a decision on that yet.  Doesn't mean there won't be one in the coming days.

[Lucas]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The prices are madness, he is worth nowhere near 30m let alone 50m but the market is out of control  

And yet, we live in a world where a 30 year old Chris Wood (4 years older) commands a £25m transfer fee.

Don't mind me though.

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

To me footballers are cars

[patoriku66]

In the few matches I've seen him play, He just seemed to sit there especially as Leeds were fighting a relegation battle. That's all I've seen so far though.

I can't figure out how he's fit in at Citeh. Maybe Pep has some magical ideas that would transform him but I can only see him a a bit player. Its similar to Grealish but I would expect Jack to improve  with guidance. Perhaps KP can do the same?

 

[Happy Blue]

7 hours ago, patoriku66 said:

In the few matches I've seen him play, He just seemed to sit there especially as Leeds were fighting a relegation battle. That's all I've seen so far though.

I can't figure out how he's fit in at Citeh. Maybe Pep has some magical ideas that would transform him but I can only see him a a bit player. Its similar to Grealish but I would expect Jack to improve  with guidance. Perhaps KP can do the same?

 

He will be back up for Rodrigo and would only have two jobs when he played, win the ball, help out the CB's, doesn't need to do anything fancy

[dinadb18]

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[patoriku66]

Would that broaden his career though and make him a better player?

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[Lucas]

Ah, fudge.

If that is the fee, £42m + £3m in bonuses, I'd be extremely unhappy with the board for accepting that offer.

Leeds journalists have come out quick to say it's worth £50 - £55m but that smells like bullshit to appease the fans.

I knew he was probably gonna go, and fair play to him, hooe he does well, but we are talking about our talisman here. That price is rubbish if correct.

[DeadLinesman]

6 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Ah, fudge.

If that is the fee, £42m + £3m in bonuses, I'd be extremely unhappy with the board for accepting that offer.

Leeds journalists have come out quick to say it's worth £50 - £55m but that smells like bullshit to appease the fans.

I knew he was probably gonna go, and fair play to him, hooe he does well, but we are talking about our talisman here. That price is rubbish if correct.

You’ll be forgetting the backhanders you’re undeniably getting for ffp. One of the most important players at the club with several years left on his contract for less than double of Dan James’ fee? Yeah, I’m not buying it