UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[ficklered]

Question... Does that include the Irish & the Scots?

Rebuild the wall

[Fairy In Boots]

It will include Northern Ireland / ROI border whenever that's solved. Scotland is Park of Britain and is leaving the EU

[God is Haaland]

Just now, Fairy In Boots said:

It will include Northern Ireland / ROI border whenever that's solved. Scotland is Park of Britain and is leaving the EU

Nope.

[RandoEFC+]

The SNP lost loads of seats in the general election, any talk of Scottish independence is on the back burner for a while.

[Fairy In Boots]

41 minutes ago, True Bender said:

Nope.

Loll if you're going to fish at least put actual bait on your line 

[Fairy In Boots]

[Dr. Gonzo]

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/government-withholds-brexit-food-price-report.htm

So the government is withholding a report regarding the impact on Brexit will have on food prices. That's something that will impact virtually everyone in the UK - and people should be aware.

A hard Brexit (which I hope we don't face) could have the following impacts though:

• lack of customs facilities, leading to delays at the border (important for fresh produce) - for both imports and exports, which would lead to shortages at the shelf
• loss of migrant labour vital for UK agriculture, food processing, and retail
• loss of access to the EU markets (this is complex: on the one hand, this can mean oversupply in some sectors and theoretically lower prices, yet is also likely to mean sector shrinkage in those sectors - possibly very quickly), which can come from tariffs or lack of regulatory compliance
• Loss of access to EU trade deals and resultant higher import tariffs from reverting to WTO rules. There are also difficulties in dividing up existing Tariff Rate Quotas, meaning that matching the current EU tariff schedule very challenging. To an extent, this is in the UK's hands because we can unilaterally impose zero or close to zero tariffs (but to do so, we would devastate our own agriculture and food processing sectors, so that might not be the greatest idea)
• Substantial threat to the food processing sector due to Rules of Origin and the EU's system of tariff escalation, which could see rapid sector shrinkage. A lot of food processed here gets exported to the EU, if that suddenly stops then there will be bankruptcies
• Loss of EU subsidies and the difficulties which may come from attempting to pass replacements at the WTO
• Further currency losses can drive the cost of imports up
• Cost of customs checks for businesses

I don't think it's responsible of the government to suppress the factual reality. Reality can't be held off forever and the public should know the contents of these reports that will make an impact on their day to day lives.

[Danny]

@Dr. Gonzo I don't think there will be a shortage in migrant labour, the one thing I don't think will happen is the gates will close and Brexit voters will get their Britain back again. We will need to rely heavily on low income labour and whatever Government we have in place will do what they can to boost the economy whether that means keeping the current EU migrants in the country or just creating visas to attract more.

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, Danny said:

@Dr. Gonzo I don't think there will be a shortage in migrant labour, the one thing I don't think will happen is the gates will close and Brexit voters will get their Britain back again. We will need to rely heavily on low income labour and whatever Government we have in place will do what they can to boost the economy whether that means keeping the current EU migrants in the country or just creating visas to attract more.

I hope so. A hard Brexit is the worst case scenario.

However Brexit has also highlighted the incompetence of our government. So I've come to expect the worst from our negotiations with the EU.

[God is Haaland]

 

:rofl:

Edited October 19, 2017 by BartraPique1932

[God is Haaland]

#trollface2017

[Kowabunga]

Reports: UK, Ireland, EU strike border deal

Britain's Brexit team has reportedly agreed for Northern Ireland to keep abiding by EU regulatory rules that avoid a hard border with the Republic. The final text is still subject to agreement by all sides.

 

 

[God is Haaland]

Bow down to your Irish overlords!

[Honey Honey]

It was vetoed by the DUP hours ago.

They won't accept Northern Ireland diverging from the rest of the United Kingdom except on gay rights and abortion 

[The Artful Dodger]

Bonkers this. Northern Ireland is a very peculiar case and there are priorities there which could effect peace, yet the DUP can't bring themselves to look out for these things rather vetoing things because they're scared of a United Ireland. 

I kind of get why the Scottish are envious though.

Edited December 4, 2017 by The Artful Dodger

[God is Haaland]

1 hour ago, Kitchen Sales said:

It was vetoed by the DUP hours ago.

They won't accept Northern Ireland diverging from the rest of the United Kingdom except on gay rights and abortion 

What now? Crash out of the single market and become a 3rd world country?

[RandoEFC+]

Can't wait for negotiations to go on for another three years. I mean seriously, the referendum was 18 months ago and this is about the first sign of something actually being decided.

Can't wait even more for when everyone realises what a trough of shit we've voted ourselves into after a few more years.

[God is Haaland]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Can't wait for negotiations to go on for another three years. I mean seriously, the referendum was 18 months ago and this is about the first sign of something actually being decided.

Can't wait even more for when everyone realises what a trough of shit we've voted ourselves into after a few more years.

1. Blame the EU
2. Blame France
3. Blame Germany
4. Blame Ireland
5. Blame "remoaners"
6. Blame immigrants
7. Blame the poor
8. Punish the poor: Cut welfare & social security

Oops! Found BoJo's and Farage's TODO list. Can anyone hand it back to them, please?

[Fairy In Boots]

May needs to go this is just fucking farcical the whole thing has been destroyed by petty infighting within the Tory party. It’s fairly simple she should have held an election with a clear mandate for brexit, instead she didn’t her team are incompetent and the various factions within the Tory party can’t decide what type of Brexit they want, rather than what the people want which is no settlement cheque just set a date and we’re gone. 

[Inverted]

20 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

May needs to go this is just fucking farcical the whole thing has been destroyed by petty infighting within the Tory party. It’s fairly simple she should have held an election with a clear mandate for brexit, instead she didn’t her team are incompetent and the various factions within the Tory party can’t decide what type of Brexit they want, rather than what the people want which is no settlement cheque just set a date and we’re gone. 

I've not seen anything that suggests that. Hard Brexit was absolutely not in the public's contemplation during the referendum - the public was sold a lie that the EU would be generous to us because we supposedly were indispensable to them.

This is the reality. The EU holds all the cards, and if we insist on leaving we have to do so by their terms, or be an international pariah. Its already hard enough to establish new links to the rest of the world without the EU's existing connections and bureaucracy. It would be even harder if we just left the EU without settling our obligations.

Our negotiating strength was weak to begin with, and the astounding incompetence and arrogance of the Tory party has seen us weaken it even further, and this is the result. We are dealing with an entity that economically dwarfs us, has international connections we can only dream of, is far more united and clear in its aim than we are, and is even dramatically more prepared than we are. They have put a lot more thought into this than the Tories have.

Brexit, as a large part of the Leave vote understood it, was never a possibility. People did not understand how bad our chances of securing a good deal were - every concern was dismissed by the leave campaign, who constantly said it would be  easy and amicable.

 

And as regards this Northern Ireland malarkey, its an absolute joke. The Tories promised no border on the Irish Sea to the maniacs at the DUP, who are now the tiny, bigoted tail wagging the whole Tory dog. They also promised no hard border in Ireland to the EU, and we're also bound to that by the Good Friday Agreement.

We're now being faced with a reality that Brexit means economically dividing our own country. And if it's a possibility for Scotland to do something similar and align ourselves economically and legally with the EU within the confines of the UK, we absolutely should. We voted Remain by an even wider margin than NI.

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Inverted

[Honey Honey]

Misjudgements are not lies. 

It is also worth noting that the EU's own research has forecast Ireland will lose a larger percentage of its workforce than any other country, UK included, if there is no deal. If that was to come true then how can Varadkar and the EU explain to the Irish public that businesses and jobs are lost simply because they lacked the imagination to solve differences.

At the end of the day some aren't going to get what they want. Everyone can't be pleased.

[RandoEFC+]

Said it a dozen times since last year but it's beyond farcical that this was put to a public referendum. The government are voted in and paid to run the country yet the biggest economic decision for the UK in our lifetimes gets decided by the public and given how little the general public knows about the practicalities of EU membership they may as well have just saved us the trouble and flipped a coin in the Houses of Parliament.

Even the well educated members of the public couldn't and can't predict the impact of leaving the EU and we're talking about a pretty small proportion of the public too sadly. Too many others had to vote based on point scoring sound bites from leading politicians on both sides of the vote because that's all the media can be  bothered to offer us rather than the facts that could have given the public some idea of what they were voting for or against.

I'm not saying the result would have been different either because who knows, but the whole situation is shambolic and reflective of the leadership we've suffered in this country (from both parties and the likes of Farage) since I was old enough to have any understanding of it.

[SirBalon]

The problem is simple... Nobody thought the UK would vote to leave, no political party thought it was possible even UKIP.  So none of the parties, most importantly the party that governs the country didn’t believe it want it to happen and never prepared for working towards Brexit or made any plans. They and all are running around blindly and even though democratically the UK’s majority voted out, the UK are actually almost split down the middle also adding the hypothetical possibility that many may have changed their mind and wouldn’t vote to leave today.

To say this is a farce and a total mess is to put it mildly but then again how deep can we delve into the English vocabulary to search for words to describe all of this?

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

The problem is simple... Nobody thought the UK would vote to leave, no political party thought it was possible even UKIP.  So none of the parties, most importantly the party that governs the country didn’t believe it want it to happen and never prepared for working towards Brexit or made any plans. They and all are running around blindly and even though democratically the UK’s majority voted out, the UK are actually almost split down the middle also adding the hypothetical possibility that many may have changed their mind and wouldn’t vote to leave today.

To say this is a farce and a total mess is to put it mildly but then again how deep can we delve into the English vocabulary to search for words to describe all of this?

The thing I don't understand is how so many people could vote leave without knowing they were voting for something incredibly up in the air. If the voting public took the information from both sides and thought "well Brexit could be as bad as the remainers are saying, but it could be as good as the Brexiters are promising" that's a HUGE fucking gap of different possibilities over what this vote meant for the UK.

I mean it doesn't help that there's those lies that were spread about how much money the NHS would receive, and for Boris Johnson to say it was unrealistic after campaigning in front of those fucking busses is outrageous. And the lies about being able to better control our borders and retain the freedom of movement throughout the EU. But these were effective lies and they convinced a lot of people to vote for Brexit.

But what's worse than thoughtless voters is these politicians who campaigned for it, lied through their fucking teeth, and spent months campaigning... and had no fucking plan for if people voted for their bullshit. So what we're left with is a number of voters who voted for the country to proceed forward with huge uncertainty and politicians that have no fucking clue what they're doing, because nobody anticipated that this would happen.

There's also the fucking people who voted for Brexit because they thought leave would win. These people are painfully stupid and I'm convinced that society would be better off without them. Voting for something you don't want for a "protest" vote is absolutely retarded, these people should be forced to have "DUMB CUNT" tattooed onto their fucking foreheads. But I can't blame these idiots for the lies from the campaigners or the idiot politicians who didn't have a fucking plan for something they were letting the general public vote on.

The leadership in the UK is fucking shambolic.

[Honey Honey]

Sorry but we've know what the government's plan is since Autumn 2016. Does anyone bother to listen or are you all still trapped in the prism of the referendum hysteria?

The referendum was a really simple straight forward result in which people voted to take back control of borders, laws and money, things signed away under European treaties. There are myriad ways to do this, it isn't just leave or remain. Isn't it funny that Neil Kinnock's son is the one who recognises that more than most in the Labour party?

For those in the here and now the only mistake right now can be the particular hand declared, chosen by those in the political elite to answer the referendum result, in this case the one May declared in Autumn 2016. Her government is now dependent on it to both happen and work, there will be electoral consequences if not.

Let us not forget however that you lot, myself included, all knew what the plan was going into the 2017 election (you have no excuse not to) and voted for a Labour manifesto that had already been rejected by the EU. The impasse we are now at is the same as had Corbyn been in power and true to his word.

Also, many in the financial sector consider John McDonnell a bigger threat to economic stability than Brexit. You don't have to be a right wing CityAM financier to recognise why either. It is hypocritical to support the current labour party whilst simulateonesly panicking about people voting for an uncertain economic future. That is a hypocrisy that some are going to have to address.

A UKIP based Brexit like Fairy supports can't get through parliament, never could, never will. Those people were always going to be disappointed. What has happened since the referendum is a coalition between the UKIP type Tories and the unimaginative auto-pilot remain Tories. That is why we have the hand May has chosen to play. It didn't have to be that hand but it is one that emerged in the environment. Labour and the political commentators need to self reflect on their role in creating that environment as well.