Cicero 5,267 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Batard said: The video if Varys and Littlefinger serves as a reminder of how character driven GoT was up until the source material ceased. The problem now is it follows tropes, setup, payoff within current socially acceptable confines. I love Arya but she’s so OP given limited training it kinda steals a little credibility away. Part of me wonders whether the double Ds hearts are not in it anymore. She trained with Jaqen H'ghar for almost 2 years. Just now, 6666 said: One of the worst pieces of writing from the show was the way they had him beg before he was killed. Didn't fit his character at all. I felt it did. He was so used to having his way, ether by manipulating or his cunning ploys, that he didn't now how to react when it all fell apart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Batard 2,534 Posted May 3, 2019 Administrator Share Posted May 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cicero said: She trained with Jaqen H'ghar for almost 2 years. I felt it did. He was so used to having his way, ether by manipulating or his cunning ploys, that he didn't now how to react when it all fell apart. True. But didn’t complete the training Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Batard said: True. But didn’t complete the training She did didn't she? After she tricked him, he said 'A girl is finally no one'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Batard 2,534 Posted May 3, 2019 Administrator Share Posted May 3, 2019 Just now, Cicero said: She did didn't she? After she tricked him, he said 'A girl is finally no one'. I suspect it lasted much longer in the books. Wait. That could mean so many things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry 1,437 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Batard said: I suspect it lasted much longer in the books. Wait. That could mean so many things She's still there by the end of book 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefreeluke 722 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Tommy said: He and Varys were by far the most intelligent and cunning players of the "Game", until the writers had no idea what to do with them and dumbed them down. Their interactions were pure class. The chaos is a ladder scene is one of my favourite scenes from the whole show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machado 1,710 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Bran literally going standby and Jon Snow joy riding a dragon for half the episode were some of the worst aspects for me. So much tension built between Jon and the NK for nothing. I want Jon Snow in the middle of the action ffs. He's good at it. Theon's charge on the NK was awkward too (actual suicide), and we didn't need a 1827th rendemption scene. Poor and unimaginative writing here. A toddler could have made that scene better and I'm not kidding here. I would have been okay with Arya killing the NK if they had made it believable. I mean, did she jump from a trampoline?? How did she get past all the WW? The NK never used his sword and his long haired mates never did anything at all besides walking in slow motion. Ridiculous writing once again here. This battle could have been the best piece of TV/movie making of all time if they had given us real GoT, but instead we got something else that is far from what GoT is about... Plot armour over the roof. A good example is what happened following the Dothraki massacre. I thought that scene was pretty good and would have been ok with it if they had kept consistent with how devastating the WW supposedly were. How do the Dothraki get wiped out in seconds, yet just a few moments later, the main characters front lining were not? I'm talking Jaime, Brienne, Podrick, Sam, etc. Jorah being one of the few coming back from the dark in that initial scene is the epitome of what was wrong with this episode. Imagine a world where Ned Stark is rescued at the last second and Robb Stark gets out of that wedding alive... yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry 1,437 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) @Machado Theon was absolutely fucked mate. He was surrounded by the others and wights. He knew he had no chance but chose to go out very bravely rather than cowarding out like when he last fought euron. I actually enjoyed Theons journey in this episode even though it seems unlikely he would have been the best among his men to be there till the end. At one point with him on the ground I was thinking "he could do this. A Prince. Born amidst salt and smoke... This could be a big twist on tptwp prophecy." Edited May 4, 2019 by Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) I’m fairly certain if the writers focused more on the prophecies vs who ends up getting the iron throne, it would’ve all panned out better. Agree on Jon. Felt they did a disservice to him this episode. The fuck is he doing sitting this one out? He should’ve been on the battle field. Edited May 4, 2019 by Cicero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry 1,437 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Cicero said: I’m fairly certain if the writers focused more on the prophecies vs who ends up getting the iron throne, it would’ve all panned out better. Agree on Jon. Felt they did a disservice to him this episode. The fuck is he doing sitting this one out? He should’ve been on the battle field. Reflecting on Jon he really hasn't proven to be all that great for a while now. His ignorance as Lord Commander got him killed. He lost the battle of the bastards, with his emotion driven charge delivering his whole army into the hands of Ramsey Bolton. His tactical setup for this battle was appalling and really there were great commanders like Jamie available that wound up in infantry roles being hugely under utilised. Obviously his dumbest move was to charge viserian, reminiscent of the same temper based mistake he made against ramsey. And he obviously didn't get the final job done against the night King. It is a bit of a letdown when all through the series and even Morso the books you get this constant sense that this man has the potential to be one of the great military leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry 1,437 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 The wall was ice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,662 Posted May 4, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted May 4, 2019 The walls of Winterfell weren't ice to be fair but that is pretty nit picky nonetheless. I know it's just a meme but others have made that a genuine complaint. 10 hours ago, Harry said: Reflecting on Jon he really hasn't proven to be all that great for a while now. His ignorance as Lord Commander got him killed. He lost the battle of the bastards, with his emotion driven charge delivering his whole army into the hands of Ramsey Bolton. His tactical setup for this battle was appalling and really there were great commanders like Jamie available that wound up in infantry roles being hugely under utilised. Obviously his dumbest move was to charge viserian, reminiscent of the same temper based mistake he made against ramsey. And he obviously didn't get the final job done against the night King. It is a bit of a letdown when all through the series and even Morso the books you get this constant sense that this man has the potential to be one of the great military leaders. At least those instances were in keeping with his character. He wasn't so much ignorant as Lord Commander, more that he failed to convince the rest of the Watch that what he did was absolutely necessary. The emotional charge at Ramsay is excusable, he did literally just see Rickon get murdered feet away from him after already had the discipline to stay at the Wall when Ned and Robb died, and when he knew Bran had gone Beyond the Wall. On that occasion I don't blame him for going fuck it, I'm done with this shit. His idiotic tactics in the latest episode were a symptom of the overall weird writing so should be treated as a separate entity in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 He is still very young as well. Not even close to his prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,615 Posted May 4, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2019 Saw this on reddit. Pretty neat. A stark family portrait 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Gold 599 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 On 03/05/2019 at 19:10, Dr. Gonzo said: Yeah I think the series might have that though with The Battle of the Bastards. That or Lord of the Rings' Helms Deep battle scenes - but I'd probably go with the battle of the bastards. Personally, I think it was a fantastic episode of what is probably the most impressive show we've ever had on our TV. But that doesn't mean it wasn't without it's flaws, something can be excellent and still not free of legitimate criticism. But beyond little gripes about the episode, it did its job really well. It was an episode that was designed to make you feel lost in the chaos of the battle, it did a great job of constantly ramping up tension. And the way they gave you hope before the first charge, only to then relentlessly shit on that hope immediately afterwards and fill with you with a sense of "WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO DO TO GET OUT OF THIS!?!" And it had other moments to pull on certain heartstrings. And then it has a great conclusion to a very tense battle scene. Those things all outweigh the fact that I had to turn off every light and shut the blinds to see what the fuck was going on, for sure. They even outweigh the fact that I thought "so if these dead bodies can punch through their tombs, why the fuck couldn't a white walker have escaped from that wooden box they took one to King's Landing in?" Because the episode was fucking fantastic and I'll excuse some shite like that to see this fantastic show get the ending it needs. I think if that episode is an indication, the ending of the show will be fairly satisfying. Can't be said of every HBO show. I don't think they can be considered "little gripes" when they affect the core of the plot. Everyone in the crypt should be dead; Sansa, Tyrion, Missandei, et al. (and fingers pointed from all directions at whoever had the idea to shelter them there). Davos should probably be dead along with a handful of other major characters as well. Those would've been moments to pull on the heartstrings, not Theon getting the redemptive death everyone saw coming several episodes ago. They would've been moments to really throw a spanner in the works and leave you thinking "what the fuck happens now?" for a week; something Game of Thrones has previously done better than any show I've seen. Instead, everyone who matters is still inexplicably alive and well. For an episode that was billed as "about to make the red wedding look like a rehearsal dinner" it was rather predictable and incredibly inconsequential. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,186 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Burning Gold said: I don't think they can be considered "little gripes" when they affect the core of the plot. Everyone in the crypt should be dead; Sansa, Tyrion, Missandei, et al. (and fingers pointed from all directions at whoever had the idea to shelter them there). Davos should probably be dead along with a handful of other major characters as well. Those would've been moments to pull on the heartstrings, not Theon getting the redemptive death everyone saw coming several episodes ago. They would've been moments to really throw a spanner in the works and leave you thinking "what the fuck happens now?" for a week; something Game of Thrones has previously done better than any show I've seen. Instead, everyone who matters is still inexplicably alive and well. For an episode that was billed as "about to make the red wedding look like a rehearsal dinner" it was rather predictable and incredibly inconsequential. Should everyone in the Crypt be dead? Imo if Jamie was able to be convinced to fight for the living, it makes more sense that nobody in the crypt should have died. We shouldn’t forget the genius behind the story is no longer behind the story and TV people are in charge of how this ends. The brilliant writing we expect should be tempered because the brilliant backstory doesn’t exist here. That last episode is going to be used as the quintessential example of plot armor. I don’t think this was that well written of an episode of GoT - but it was very entertaining. And I think that’s how the series will end - entertaining, but not necessarily matching the writing of the earlier seasons. It’ll always be one of my favourites, but not my actual favourites because of that drastic shift when the source material ran out and it was the TV lads calling the shots. But what could they do, we weren’t going to wait until GRRM finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Gold 599 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Should everyone in the Crypt be dead? Imo if Jamie was able to be convinced to fight for the living, it makes more sense that nobody in the crypt should have died. We shouldn’t forget the genius behind the story is no longer behind the story and TV people are in charge of how this ends. The brilliant writing we expect should be tempered because the brilliant backstory doesn’t exist here. That last episode is going to be used as the quintessential example of plot armor. I don’t think this was that well written of an episode of GoT - but it was very entertaining. And I think that’s how the series will end - entertaining, but not necessarily matching the writing of the earlier seasons. It’ll always be one of my favourites, but not my actual favourites because of that drastic shift when the source material ran out and it was the TV lads calling the shots. But what could they do, we weren’t going to wait until GRRM finished. I assume you mean Benjen? He's only half undead because of some shit the children of the forest pulled, which obviously they didn't do with all the bodies in the crypt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,186 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Burning Gold said: I assume you mean Benjen? He's only half undead because of some shit the children of the forest pulled, which obviously they didn't do with all the bodies in the crypt. No the undead they take down in a wooden box, while in the crypt they punch through what I assume are tombs more durable than wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Gold 599 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: No the undead they take down in a wooden box, while in the crypt they punch through what I assume are tombs more durable than wood Huh? This is where I thought you meant Benjen 33 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Should everyone in the Crypt be dead? Imo if Jamie was able to be convinced to fight for the living, it makes more sense that nobody in the crypt should have died. But yeah, we can agree it's bullshit that that wight wasn't able to get out. I assumed he was chained up, but he wasn't when the lid was popped off 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry 1,437 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,615 Posted May 5, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 03/05/2019 at 21:21, Cicero said: I felt it did. He was so used to having his way, ether by manipulating or his cunning ploys, that he didn't now how to react when it all fell apart. He was always two steps ahead of everyone. As soon as they ran out of book material, they dumbed his character down sooo much. He went from the absolute mastermind of the "Game of Thrones" to a lurking creep. From one of the most dangerous men in Westeros to a side character with not much to say. Just look what happened to Varys too. Now he's just "there", and doesn't even say anything anymore It's still a great show, but unfortunately it went from intelligent writing to "WHOA"-effect real fast when the TV lads started calling the shots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Just caught up with it. Bit disappointed tbh, the White Walkers are my favourites and wanted them to win. I'm hoping for some sort of comeback but can't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick 2,276 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I watched the episode again yesterday. My initial viewing was too emotional to make a decent judgement of everything but having had a chance to see it again I have to say that I agree with the majority of complaints. The plot armour for some of these characters was ridiculous. Brienne, Podraig, Davos, Greyworm and Missandei should have all been killed off. I can only assume we have another epic battle left (Emilia Clarke hinted towards 5 being that) that will finish some of these characters off because otherwise it's ridiculously watered down. I loved the final sequence with the night king walking towards Bran. The score made it; what an absolutely fantastic piece of music that was. That being said, his death did a great disservice to him. The night king should have been so much more and Jon should have been there to at least fight him somewhat. There's part of me that hopes the night king isn't gone, but considering how dumbed down this show became (still highly entertaining) after they past the books, I don't have high hopes 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots 607 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 6 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said: Just caught up with it. Bit disappointed tbh, the White Walkers are my favourites and wanted them to win. I'm hoping for some sort of comeback but can't see it. Can see why you vote Corbyn, utter destruction in the realm is that cunts remit to 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.